Queer eye for the straight guy

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silas

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What I find very peculiar in this entire discussion in a Christian forum, is that no one has evoked the sacred Word of God:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32)

You see, it doesn't matter what I think or what you think. Our opinions carry as much weight as a sub-atomic particle in a grain of sand in the Serengeti. Apart from the Word of God we have no authority to determine right from wrong, guilt from innocence. When we look to the Word we see that homosexual behavior is sinful. Therefore any action that condones, promotes, or attempts to validate that behavior falls under the purview of God's wrath. If we sit back silently as sinful behavior is propagated around us; if we allow society to teach our children sin is acceptable, making a lie of God's Word; if we do nothing as the forces of Satan impose their will on our brethren, then we will have to answer for our inaction before the judgement seat of Christ.

Silas

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SirKenin

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Given that every single medical and behavioral science institution in the country agrees that homosexuality is unchosen and unchangeable, and given that homosexuality in no way harms anyone or violates anyone else's rights, claims by homophobes have no rational basis.

Of course it really doesn't matter whether a homosexual orientation is chosen or not because it does not cause harm or infringe on others' rights and that's all that really matters.

That's wonderful and all. Even your use of homophobe is exceptional. Everything we've come to expect from a fine young man such as yourself.

However, you've dodged the question. Several people offered proof of a homosexual agenda. You claim it's all propaganda, and that you have scientists proof.

So, professor... You've made your claim to refute their evidence, why I'm not sure. What is it the scientists say has put us in the position we are in today? If there was no homosexual agenda, then what do the scientists say there was?
 
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Ryder

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Nice scripture silas, appropriate! :clap:

Morality deals in absolutes, no God, no morality. What morality can evolution give you? Only survive, doesn't matter how... Whatever style survives is the winner and thus 'correct'. Ergo, if people who for whatever reason eat their third child survive and thrive and outlast others, by evolutionary standards they are just great. So it should be obvious that we need an absolute, God, to deal with morality in any logical fashion.

Again, good verse silas!
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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sweetkitty said:
I' ve known MANY homosexuals that have told me that they are in a homosexual relationship by choice...just because no one has said that to you doesn't mean it never happens.
And there is NO proof that homosexuality is genetic. So your question doesn't make sense.

It's not the same thing to say that one is in a "homosexual relationship by choice" versus having an unchosen homosexual orientation. Of course our relationships are chosen. Our instinctual attractions are not.
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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drfeelgood said:
However, you've dodged the question. Several people offered proof of a homosexual agenda.

No, there is no proof of a single unified movement representing all homosexuals. There might be advocacy organizations, but to claim some vast conspiracy of this homosexual agenda is false.

So, professor... You've made your claim to refute their evidence, why I'm not sure. What is it the scientists say has put us in the position we are in today? If there was no homosexual agenda, then what do the scientists say there was?

Scientists say that homosexuality is innate even if it is a result of both biological and environmental factors and unchangeable. Scientists say that it is a natural variation of human sexuality.
 
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Ryder

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Mechanical Bliss said:
It's not the same thing to say that one is in a "homosexual relationship by choice" versus having an unchosen homosexual orientation. Of course our relationships are chosen. Our instinctual attractions are not.

How does this help your position? Like I said before, genetic/'born with' does not equate with correct/acceptable. Alcoholics have genetic dispositions, so do child molestors, so do chronic cardiac-problem individuals, so what?
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Ryder said:
Alcoholics are genetically predisposed to be so. Do you support an alcoholic in their self destructive behaviour? (usually ending in their demise). Despite being genetically suseptable to cronic over drinking, most people support groups like AA that try to 'cure' alcoholics. Alchoholics were also 'born that way'. Maybe we shouldn't try to change them either. Just because it's genetic doesn't mean it's good. Marphins syndrome, many types of cancer, heart problems, these are genetic too. This isn't the be-all argument that shows homosexuality is wrong, far from it, but disaproveing of something genetic is hardly an open-shut case of 'close-mindedness'. And gays have genetic dispositions at best, there isn't currently a 'gay' gene, btw.

Of course this is why it's useless to argue about whether sexual orientation is chosen or not--because no matter what, people will find an excuse. What matters is that homosexuality is not inherently harmful to any individual, to society, or to anyone else's rights. Alcoholism very well can be. Bad analogy.
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Ryder said:
How does this help your position? Like I said before, genetic/'born with' does not equate with correct/acceptable.

I never said it did. I was just pointing out a ridiculously flawed analogy.

Alcoholics have genetic dispositions, so do child molestors, so do chronic cardiac-problem individuals, so what?

Homosexuality is not inherently harmful. That's all that matters.
 
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Ryder

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Of course this is why it's useless to argue about whether sexual orientation is chosen or not--because no matter what, people will find an excuse. What matters is that homosexuality is not inherently harmful to any individual, to society, or to anyone else's rights. Alcoholism very well can be. Bad analogy.

Good analogy for my purposes, since I was only trying to establish the fact that homosexuality-being-genetic does not make it morally right. I concede that being genetic would not make it wrong either, hands down. I'm just trying to make clear that a doctors 'genetic' ruling on gays won't affect the moral issue one way or the other. Seems you agree too! :)
 
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Lola said:
Truncate, your statements contradict themselves.

In the first part of your arguement you state that kids need to know about sex, or the pregnancy rate will go up.

Then your last statement is
I am saying that parents and schools should teach the basic facts (and possible consequences) of sex. Not to tell them what to do and not to do. Just giving them the information that everyone should have.

Now. I tend to agree that it's no one's business what goes on behind closed doors. However, the gay community is not satisfied with merely being gay. They feel the need to flaunt it to everyone. Before you say that isn't true, ask yourself this:

When was the last time you attended a "Hetrosexual Pride Parade"?
The parades, I assume, are to show that they are proud to be free and allowed to be practicing and not be ashamed and hated by people for what they were born as. Homosexuality being out in the open, with people hearing about it, makes it much less of a chance that people are ashamed to 'come out of the closet' so to speak. They will feel more accepted, because more people will know that it is OK.

Straight people do not have parades, yes. But, we have Miss America pageants, other pageants, girls in magazines, hollywood movies, adult movies, commercials with sex/innuendo in them - sex is everywhere, and it's definitely NOT only homosexuals that are 'flaunting' anything.
 
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dayton said:
I agree that what they do behind closed doors is none of my business. I am not anti-gay at all.

Innocent children should stay that way, and they should not know what sex is until they're at least 16. Kids are getting sexual information at an earlier age, and it's wrong.
Some teenagers and kids 10-up are already having sex - with some of them getting pregnant. Information needs to be exchanged without all this fear. Every person ever alive was/is a product of sexual reproduction.
 
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sweetkitty said:
How did children/teens and young adults learn about sex before homosexuals came along?
I wish people would stop stating opinion as though it is fact.
And I wish people would realize that not everything is permissable just because it is done behind closed doors.
So did gay pride parades cause kids to make-out and have sex at parties, in the 60's and even before that? No! Ofcourse not. There are commercials, many made by straight men and women that contain sexual material. There is the internet. There are friends to ask questions, books, etc. There is no 'militant gay agenda.' Homosexuals just want to be accepted and not hated due to fear of the unknown and (slightly) different.
 
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sweetkitty said:
I' ve known MANY homosexuals that have told me that they are in a homosexual relationship by choice...just because no one has said that to you doesn't mean it never happens.
And there is NO proof that homosexuality is genetic. So your question doesn't make sense.
Look up some websites, journals, TV programming, scientists and find out what the studies have proven - not just in homosapiens but other animals as well.

The people you refer to, they may either be Bisexual an/or your question was not worded/understood correctly.
 
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since this is a thread about a television show i am gonna post on that idea instead of the morality of homosexuality- since that is obviously up for debate heh


if you do not like a show. don't watch it. if enough people share your views and don't watch it, the show won't get decent ratings. if a show doesn't have good ratings, or doesn't get enough of the desired demographics to watch the show, the advertisers/sponsers will pull out and since that is how television makes money these days, that show will be cancelled. so easy thing is to stop watching. then we don't have to watch the trash we don't like. you can complain all you want through petition letters, but its the buck they care about, not if some church lady is offended. and yes, that does seem rather harsh, but it is reality.

i suggest people do that for any show they don't like. it is really all you can do as a normal television viewer to get that stuff off tv. in fact making a big deal like this helps the show get publicity and thus better ratings, so in all your attempts to end the shows you don't like because you find them offensive you are actually helping them out.
 
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revolutio

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Ryder said:
Nice scripture silas, appropriate! :clap:

Morality deals in absolutes, no God, no morality. What morality can evolution give you? Only survive, doesn't matter how... Whatever style survives is the winner and thus 'correct'. Ergo, if people who for whatever reason eat their third child survive and thrive and outlast others, by evolutionary standards they are just great. So it should be obvious that we need an absolute, God, to deal with morality in any logical fashion.

Again, good verse silas!

I am going to bow out of this arguement because people are starting to aggravate me with conspiracy theories and the misuse of the word truth.

However Ryder, I strongly disagree with you on saying that without a God there are no morals.

Morals are rules we live by so as to spread happiness to as many people as possible while at the same time not having to make to great of sacrifices of our own happiness.

Evolution provides nothing along those lines, I agree to that. But non-Christians lives do not revolve around evolution. The point of staying alive in my opinion is so that people can experience happiness, joy, and pleasure.

This may sound arrogant but, it doesn't take a word from God to tell me that I am in no position to deny happiness to others.
 
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Ryder said:
Alcoholics are genetically predisposed to be so. Do you support an alcoholic in their self destructive behaviour? (usually ending in their demise). Despite being genetically suseptable to cronic over drinking, most people support groups like AA that try to 'cure' alcoholics. Alchoholics were also 'born that way'. Maybe we shouldn't try to change them either. Just because it's genetic doesn't mean it's good. Marphins syndrome, many types of cancer, heart problems, these are genetic too. This isn't the be-all argument that shows homosexuality is wrong, far from it, but disaproveing of something genetic is hardly an open-shut case of 'close-mindedness'. And gays have genetic dispositions at best, there isn't currently a 'gay' gene, btw.
'Alcoholics,' as you call them, have no beef with me, nor I with them. It's their business - I, nor anyone for that matter has the right to force someone to change, ridicule their difference, or hate them for it.
 
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SirKenin

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Scientists say that homosexuality is innate even if it is a result of both biological and environmental factors and unchangeable. Scientists say that it is a natural variation of human sexuality.

That still does not tell us why society is where we are. Why have we changed positions so dramatically in the period of a few decades? You've only reiterated that scientists have proven you were born with this. (not that it excuses your behaviour, and we've yet to see any evidence that I'm aware of, even if they believe they are close to such a discovery). You've refuted the opposing side, throwing around names again, although they've offered an awful lot more in their dissertation than you have.

I think all you have is some claims to throw at the opposition to try and "jam" them, just as the article claims. As of now it seems that you're backing it up, rather than offering a satisfactory rebuttal.
 
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Ryder said:
Nice scripture silas, appropriate! :clap:

Morality deals in absolutes, no God, no morality. What morality can evolution give you? Only survive, doesn't matter how... Whatever style survives is the winner and thus 'correct'. Ergo, if people who for whatever reason eat their third child survive and thrive and outlast others, by evolutionary standards they are just great. So it should be obvious that we need an absolute, God, to deal with morality in any logical fashion.

Again, good verse silas!
Who are you to enjoin that we need so-called 'morality.' Is it too be found in other animals? Do they fear and/or obey any deities?
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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drfeelgood said:
That still does not tell us why society is where we are. Why have we changed positions so dramatically in the period of a few decades? You've only reiterated that scientists have proven you were born with this. (not that it excuses your behaviour, and we've yet to see any evidence that I'm aware of, even if they believe they are close to such a discovery). You've refuted the opposing side, throwing around names again, although they've offered an awful lot more in their dissertation than you have.

I think all you have is some claims to throw at the opposition to try and "jam" them, just as the article claims. As of now it seems that you're backing it up, rather than offering a satisfactory rebuttal.

The point of course is that acceptance of homosexuality has grown since scientists have realized that homosexuality is not a mental illness, but is a natural variation of human sexuality.

All I've seen from the "opposition" are conservative Christian websites with people complaining about the supposed "sin" of homosexuality. That is meaningless to a non-believer especially in light of the fact that homosexuality is not inherently harmful.
 
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