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Queen of heaven

Discussion in 'Mariology & Hagiography' started by dóxatotheó, May 14, 2021.

  1. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Paul is quoting from the Psalms.
    The fool says in his heart,
    “There is no God.”
    They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
    there is no one who does good.

    2 The Lord looks down from heaven
    on all mankind
    to see if there are any who understand,
    any who seek God.
    3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.

    4 Do all these evildoers know nothing?

    They devour my people as though eating bread;
    they never call on the Lord.
    5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
    for God is present in the company of the righteous.
    6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
    but the Lord is their refuge.

    The clear teaching is that all of us have sinned but we are able to call upon God and be delivered. All still means " all."
    We have all sinned,
    Just as Romans 3:23 says and Psalm 14 also says. You are just confirming what I already stated.
     
  2. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Those aren't apostles.
     
  3. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Not apostles.
     
  4. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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    First, the passage is not about Mary. As to "all," Jesus never sinned. What sins do you think tiny infants have committed? What sins do you think severely mentally handicapped people have committed? Also remember that the Bible was not written in English. When "all" of Judea went to see John the Baptist, do you think that includes every pagan, every Roman soldier, every person on his or her death bed? Is that what Matthew is trying to tell us?
     
  5. mnorian

    mnorian Oldbie--Eternal Optimist Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

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    this thread has gone through a cleanup of off-topic posts. Please post to the thread subject.

    Hat off.
     
  6. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    The Scripture you posted is actually about ISRAEL.

    Fact established acccording to the Literal word of Scripture........ The "woman" delivered in PAIN.....Right?
    Now WHY does the woman suffer PAIN when delivering a baby?

    Genesis 3:16.......
    " Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you."

    PAIN in childbirth is Gods CURSE upon women, for ORIGINAL SIN ... before that, no pain, after that, PAIN IN CHILDBIRTH...right?

    We know the woman in Revelation delivered IN TRAIL AND PAIN = the woman carries the CURSE of PAIN.

    Now YOU must answer.....................
    Does Catholicism have as DOGMA, that Mary was SINLESS? Yes, she does, in a brand new Dogma the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, Mary was without SIN from Conception.

    Therefore.... she did NOT carry the CURSE from the Garden, right?
    No curse = NO PAIN.
    So, EITHER
    The "woman" in Revelation is NOT Mary { and "she is not" she is the nation of Israel } OR she IS MARY, but the PAIN showed that the DOGMA of the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS IN ERROR.

    Pick one.
     
  7. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Infants and severally handicapped are born INNOCENT but not RIGHTEOUSE.

    Righteousness is innocence in the face of temptation.

    James 1:13-18 .......
    "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
     
  8. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    :doh::doh::doh:
     
  9. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Well YES there is.

    I am not sure you will accept it because it is a Bible answer but here it is my friend.

    The phrase queen of heaven appears in two passages of the Bible, and ONLY in the Old Test and both in the book of Jeremiah.

    The first passage deals with the things the Israelites were doing that provoked the Lord to anger. Entire families were involved in idolatry. The children gathered wood, and the men used it to build altars to worship false gods. The women were engaged in kneading dough and baking cakes of bread for the “Queen of Heaven” in Jere. 7:18.

    This title referred to Ishtar, an Assyrian and Babylonian goddess also called Ashtoreth and Astarte by various other groups. She was thought to be the wife of the false god Baal, also known as Molech. The motivation of women to worship Ashtoreth stemmed from her reputation as a fertility goddess, and, as the bearing of children was greatly desired among women of that era, worship of this “queen of heaven” was rampant among pagan civilizations. Sadly, it became popular among the Israelites as well.

    This name was also given to SEMERAMIS who was the wife of Nimrod in Genesis 10. She was a prostitute and had a son named TAMMUZ.

    The New Encyclopedia Britannica writes in the article "Tammuz": ". . . in Mesopotamian religion, god of fertility embodying the powers for new life in nature in the spring" (Vol. 11, p. 532).

    This "nature god" was associated with two yearly festivals, one held in late winter and the other in early spring.

    The cult of Tammuz centered around two yearly festivals, one celebrating his marriage to the goddess Inanna, the other lamenting his death at the hands of demons from the netherworld. During the 3rd dynasty of Ur (c. 2112—c. 2004 BC) in the city of Umma (modern Tell Jokha), the marriage of the god was dramatically celebrated in February—March, Umma's Month of the Festival of Tammuz. . . . The celebrations in March—April that marked the death of the god also seem to have been dramatically performed. Many of the laments for the occasion have as a setting a procession out into the desert to the fold of the slain god. (ibid. Emphasis ours.)

    The second passage that refers to the queen of heaven is in Jere. 44:17-25, where Jeremiah is giving the people the word of the Lord which God has spoken to him. He reminds the people that their disobedience and idolatry has caused the Lord to be very angry with them and to punish them with calamity. Jeremiah warns them that greater punishments await if they do not repent. They reply that they have no intentions of giving up their worship of idols, promising to continue pouring out drink offerings to the queen of heaven, Ashtoreth, and even going so far as to credit her with the peace and prosperity they once enjoyed because of God’s grace and mercy.
     
  10. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know. T
    Yes I know. Truth allways causes problems because we like what we know even if what we know is wrong.
     
  11. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that you had time to post funny icons but not the time to respond to the question posed to you.

    Therefore.... Mary did NOT carry the CURSE from the Garden, right?
    No curse = NO PAIN.
    So, EITHER
    The "woman" in Revelation is NOT Mary { and "she is not" she is the nation of Israel } OR she IS MARY, but the PAIN showed that the DOGMA of the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS IN ERROR.

    Pick one.
     
  12. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    As yes, another inevitable contradiction of dogma in the RCC as it attempts to spin scriptures to support its beliefs.
     
  13. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good Day,

    Often when I see a member of the Roman Church twisting scripture I am reminded, they can not be serious....

    Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : while commenting on the documents of Vatican II (article nine of Dei verbum), stated that “no one is seriously able to maintain that there is a proof in Scripture for every catholic doctrine.” See Joseph Ratzinger’s “The Transmission of Divine Revelation” in Herbert Vorgrimler, ed., Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II (New York: Herder and Herder, 1969), Vol. 3, p. 195.


    In Him,

    Bill
     
  14. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Only response worthy of your constant Catholicism bashing is:

    God bless you
     
  15. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    So the fact that the RCC doctrine of Original is proven to be wrong does not bother you at all?????

    The actual post was.............
    "Genesis 3:16.......
    " Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you."

    PAIN in childbirth is Gods CURSE upon women, for ORIGINAL SIN ... before that, no pain, after that, PAIN IN CHILDBIRTH...right?

    We know the woman in Revelation delivered IN TRAIL AND PAIN = the woman carries the CURSE of PAIN.

    Now YOU must answer.....................
    Does Catholicism have as DOGMA, that Mary was SINLESS? Yes, she does, in a brand new Dogma the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, Mary was without SIN from Conception.

    Therefore.... she did NOT carry the CURSE from the Garden, right?
    No curse = NO PAIN.
    So, EITHER
    The "woman" in Revelation is NOT Mary { and "she is not" she is the nation of Israel } OR she IS MARY, but the PAIN showed that the DOGMA of the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS IN ERROR.

    HOW is the exact LITERAL Scripture posted......"Twisting" that Scripture.?????
     
  16. TheWhat?

    TheWhat? Well-Known Member

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    Something that took me quite a while to understand about apostolic traditions (e.g. Catholicism), is they believe they have communion with the angels and saints in Heaven, and it's biblical. They're almost part of the church. If you spend much time around a catholic church, you'll see images of saints and angels, everywhere. If it's true, then you'd be missing out if you failed to communicate with them in times of need.

    Protestantism, in contrast, often times operates as if it is cut off from the angels and saints. There is almost no iconography.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  17. Abaxvahl

    Abaxvahl Well-Known Member

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    Indeed they are part of the Church (they are the Church Triumphant, having won the battle, we are the Church Militant, still fighting and running the course), our family in the Heavens. For if death can not separate us from Christ and we are in Christ and are Christ's Body (which is the Church) then death will not separate us from one another. We are the branches and they are all connected to one another and the vine, death can not sever our relationships anymore. This is an inevitable consequence of the sting of death being taken away.

    In such a context asking the Saints to pray for us and many other things makes perfect sense to do.
     
  18. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    When you post nonsense like this, it naturally discredits everything else you say.
     
  19. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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    Study the Bible, it is the Book of the Catholic Church. No Catholic Church--no Bible. If you do you will find that in the Davidic kingdom, and Jesus was born of the House of David, the mother of the king, NOT THE WIFE, is the queen mother. Also as per the Bible, the queen mother makes requests of the king.
     
  20. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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    The Catholic Church existed before one word of the NT was written. When the Catholic Church, in a process that spanned centuries, chose the 73 books of the Bible, any text that was not 100 percent in compliance with Catholic teaching was rejected. So while the Bible is fully supportive of Catholic teaching, never was the Bible intended to contain the entire Word of God. The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around.
     
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