But your scenario doesn't line up.
Hmmm....and what are you calling "judgment day" exactly? From what moment is there no repentence for sin? Do you mean, no salvation (Jesus) for sin?
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Put Revelation in order
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But your scenario doesn't line up.
Hmmm....and what are you calling "judgment day" exactly? From what moment is there no repentence for sin? Do you mean, no salvation (Jesus) for sin?
thats not the bride being given robes
9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw (U)underneath the (V)altar the (W)souls of those who had been slain (X)because of the word of God, and because of the (Y)testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "(Z)How long, O (AA)Lord, (AB)holy and true, will You refrain from (AC)judging and avenging our blood on (AD)those who dwell on the earth?"
11And (AE)there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should (AF)rest for a little while longer, (AG)until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be (AH)completed also.
these are those who have been SLAIN...its impossible to be the raptured saints because these have been killed
heres the explanation for that verse:
1 Enock: sheol
And thence I went to another place, and he mountain [and] of hard rock.
2
And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. 3
Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4
assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5
and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6
with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven?' 7
And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 8
The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9
And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10
water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11
lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There 12
He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days 13
of the sinners. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' 14
The I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'
consider that abel was slain
9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw (U)underneath the (V)altar the (W)souls of those who had been slain (X)because of the word of God, and because of the (Y)testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "(Z)How long, O (AA)Lord, (AB)holy and true, will You refrain from (AC)judging and avenging our blood on (AD)those who dwell on the earth?"
11And (AE)there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should (AF)rest for a little while longer, (AG)until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be (AH)completed also.
these are those who have been SLAIN...its impossible to be the raptured saints because these have been killed
heres the explanation for that verse:
1 Enock: sheol
And thence I went to another place, and he mountain [and] of hard rock.
2
And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. 3
Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4
assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5
and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6
with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven?' 7
And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 8
The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9
And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10
water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11
lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There 12
He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days 13
of the sinners. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' 14
The I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'
consider that abel was slain
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YEAH! "AND ONLY TOGETHER WITH US WOULD THEY BE MADE PERFECT"!
Hbr 11:40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
The people making suit are doing it right NOW! There have been martyrs for Christ for 2000 years!
THey are given their BRIDAL CLOTHES and told more martyrs must happen. The only martyrs left to happen at the moment that these people are given white robes is the martyrs at the hands of the beast which die after satan has fallen and taken power (seal #6 & 7).
Who else is given white robes other than the Bride in Revelation?
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yes they are told more must happen which means that the rapture has not taken place(and more must die)
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this isn't absolute proof that a rapture doesn't take place but it IS absolute proof that those saints crying out ARE NOT raptured saints but those who have been killed
let that sink in Jen
let that sink in Jen
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Then why, oh why, are the WHITE-ROBED MULTITUDE seen standing in heaven in the very next chapter as the 144,000 are sealed by God on earth BEFORE the trumpets, the beasts, and the bowls?
Why, oh why, is the multitude praising God in chapter 19, saying the wedding has come and "white robes" were given to the Bride and next is the wedding supper?
Those who die are resurrected after the reign of the devil and are JUDGED BY THE BRIDE who are seated on thrones:
Rev 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
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this isn't absolute proof that a rapture doesn't take place but it IS absolute proof that those saints crying out ARE NOT raptured saints but those who have been killed
let that sink in Jen
I don't understand what you are talking about.
Raptured saints don't cry out. The spirits of the dead do...the very people Christ brings with Him to the resurrection and change and catching away of the church.
What I'm telling you is that the giving of white robes is the change/catching away of the church to the throne of God.
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Many people assume that judgment day comes when the Lord returns.. but there are several phases of judgment, the first one is who qualifies to live with Him.
beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. . . .
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan. 7:9, 10, 13, 14)
IT is related to the cleansing of the sanctuary... Rev 1:1..And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. (Rev. 11:1)
The measuring of God's people has a direct connection in these passages the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 ....but remember we are not to do any judging..
Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Mat. 7:1, 2)
Rev 11:2 is dealing with those in the outer sanctuary.
And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Dan. 8:9-14)
It is important to note that any one can be blotted out of the Book of Life..
Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Ex. 32:32, 33)
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. (Ps. 69:28)
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Rev. 3:5)
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev. 22:19)
This happens during Yom Kippur..
On the ancient Day of Atonement, the high priest put fire from the altar into a censer, and entered the Most Holy place.
Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people. (Heb. 9:6, 7)
And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail. (Lev. 16:12)
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
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Take a close look here....Revelation 15:8
And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
NO MAN>>> that includes Yeshua as our High Priest.
And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
NO MAN>>> that includes Yeshua as our High Priest.
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as long as Yeshua is our High Priest in the Heavenly Courts before God... we have a sacrifice being offered for our sins..
Hebrews 10:2
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Rev. 22:11-14)
Hebrews 10:2
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Rev. 22:11-14)
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Yes, I agree with all of that. Judgment begins with the house of God.
1Pe 4:17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Psa 50:4He summons the heavens above, and the earth, that he may judge his people:
Psa 50:5"Gather to me my consecrated ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice."
Psa 75:2When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.
Isa 26:19But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.
Isa 26:20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by.
Isa 26:21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her; she will conceal her slain no longer.
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Yes, ok...until when? Until the fulfillment of the New Covenant, right?
When is the fulfillment of the New Covenant? When we are resurrected and caught away to the throne of God to serve as kings and priests, right?
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9After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from (N)every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing (O)before the throne and (P)before the Lamb, clothed in (Q)white robes, and (R)palm branches were in their hands; 10and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "(S)Salvation to our God (T)who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
11And all the angels were standing (U)around the throne and around (V)the elders and the (W)four living creatures; and they (X)fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
12saying, "(Y)Amen, (Z)blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever (AA)Amen."
13Then one of the elders (AB)answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the (AC)white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the (AD)great tribulation, and they have (AE)washed their robes and made them (AF)white in the (AG)blood of the Lamb.
so we have 2 sets of saints now
those who have been slain and those who have made their robes white from the great tribulation
the second is not said to be those who have died so its very possible these are those who live through the tribulation and are gathered together
if this is the case then the 144,000 could be a combination of those who break through while alive and those who will slain(without cause like Abel)
11And all the angels were standing (U)around the throne and around (V)the elders and the (W)four living creatures; and they (X)fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
12saying, "(Y)Amen, (Z)blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever (AA)Amen."
13Then one of the elders (AB)answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the (AC)white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the (AD)great tribulation, and they have (AE)washed their robes and made them (AF)white in the (AG)blood of the Lamb.
so we have 2 sets of saints now
those who have been slain and those who have made their robes white from the great tribulation
the second is not said to be those who have died so its very possible these are those who live through the tribulation and are gathered together
if this is the case then the 144,000 could be a combination of those who break through while alive and those who will slain(without cause like Abel)
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Have you ever wondered when this happens...
1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
I believe it is in the millennium... and what about the "things that pertain to this life" how are we to judge that.... well.... How else is God going to be able to wipe away our tears unless we can see that His judgments are righteous, especially when we are looking around to see who didn't make it.
Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
I believe it is in the millennium... and what about the "things that pertain to this life" how are we to judge that.... well.... How else is God going to be able to wipe away our tears unless we can see that His judgments are righteous, especially when we are looking around to see who didn't make it.
Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
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gotta go...try to do some thinking about this Jen and not be so quick to be right
I believe fully that you are a very true child of god but you need to take a step back and analyze things a little more carefully
pay attention to yourself and watch out for pride and fear because it blinds us!(myself included)
talk to you guys later
I believe fully that you are a very true child of god but you need to take a step back and analyze things a little more carefully
pay attention to yourself and watch out for pride and fear because it blinds us!(myself included)
talk to you guys later
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Do you know that Yom Kippur is known as the Wedding... aka the joining forever with God... that is the fulfillment of the New Covenant... Hasn't it been God's desire from the beginning .. a people perfect in Him.
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The great tribulation is the past 2000 years from the abomination that caused the desolation of the city/sanctuary to the sun/moon darkening/stars falling. The white robed multitude has "washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb". The only people who have done that are the church...they are believers in Christ. Exodus 19:10-20 explains it.
Those who die during the reign of the beast are suffering the judgment and wrath of God. People are forced to choose whom they will serve during that time. Those who choose wisely will be rewarded.
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Yes! There is a wedding (Bride and Groom) and there are guests to that wedding supper which follows the wedding, right? You would understand that better than I would...
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The wedding is Yom Kippur.. the wedding supper is during the millennium. Two different events... but most people do not even know when the wedding is.. the parables talk about ...
Matthew 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.....6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
It was a common custom that the bridegroom would come when he had prepared the wedding itself and the new home for his bride. His father was the only one who would determine when the son had done enough and everything was prepared for the wedding.
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