Purpose of the sabbath

BNR32FAN

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How is that a false statement when I quoted directly from the Catholic church?

Because according to the scriptures Paul was already celebrating Sunday before the church in Rome was established. To say the the Catholic Church established Sunday worship is accurate but not the Roman Church.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If God was going to delete one of His commandments, especially the only one He started with the word REMEMBER Jesus would have told someone.

No, not necessarily. Jesus didn’t say He would abolish the need for Gentiles to be circumcised to enter into God’s covenant, it was the Church that relayed the message.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No, not necessarily. Jesus didn’t say He would abolish the need for Gentiles to be circumcised to enter into God’s covenant, it was the Church that relayed the message.
Paul quotes the differences between the ceremonial laws and God's eternal laws on this very issue:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Again, there is no scripture from Paul, Jesus or God that deletes the 4th commandment or any one of God's Ten commandments that are placed inside the Most holy of God's Temple, because we are told they are eternal Psalms 89:34.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Acts 20 does not say Gods 4th commandment is deleted and Sunday is the new holy day. You are making scripture say something is doesn't when we have God's Word that is so plainly written.

I never said Paul deleted the 4th commandment. I’m not making scripture say anything other than what actually it says, your misrepresenting what I said. By honoring The Lord on Sunday we are keeping the commandment given in Exodus 20.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Paul quotes the differences between the ceremonial laws and God's eternal laws on this very issue:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Again, there is no scripture from Paul, Jesus or God that deletes the 4th commandment or anyone of God's Ten commandments that are placed inside the Most holy of God's Temple, because we are told they are eternal Psalms 89:34.

Paul made no distinction between ceremonial laws and God’s commandments because they were all God’s commandments. The “ceremonial laws” were just as much a commandment of God as all the rest. God Himself commanded the ceremonial laws.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I never said Paul deleted the 4th commandment. I’m not making scripture say anything other than what actually it says, your misrepresenting what I said. By honoring The Lord on Sunday we are keeping the commandment given in Exodus 20.
How so? When God said very plainly the seventh day, not the first day? How is this honoring God by not obeying? This is exactly what Jesus warned us about. Mathew 15:9 Obeying commandments of man and not God. I really hope you are not trying to argue that in Exodus 20 God said to keep the first day holy.

Exodus 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Paul made no distinction between ceremonial laws and God’s commandments because they were all God’s commandments. The “ceremonial laws” were just as much a commandment of God as all the rest. God Himself commanded the ceremonial laws.
Well you are denying what Paul just quoted as well, very plainly.
 
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BABerean2

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Paul can be difficult to understand.

Yahshua more often makes himself very clear.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Do you believe Paul's words override Yahshua's words, which are his father's words; or is it possible that this conflict lies in your misunderstanding of Paul's words?

No. It would be your misunderstanding of Christ's words.

The only way for the Law of Moses to be fulfilled was in blood on a wooden cross.

In Galatians 3:16-19 Paul plainly stated the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.


Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The same word "until" is found in the words of Christ above, and the words of Paul in Galatians 3:16-19. They agree perfectly.


Do you deny that Christ is the only person to ever keep the law perfectly? Did He fulfill the Law?

The words of Paul are in complete agreement with the words of Christ. Both heaven and earth were moved on the day of His perfect sacrifice at Calvary.

Do you think the Early Church Fathers were confused about what both Christ and Paul said in their writings below, which were recorded before the Council of Nicaea? Their words completely destroy the claim that the Roman Catholic Church started Sunday worship.


Early Church Fathers on the Sabbath:

Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)

.
 
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BNR32FAN

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How is that a false statement when I quoted directly from the Catholic church?

If God was going to delete one of His commandments, especially the only one He started with the word REMEMBER Jesus would have told someone. Where does Jesus tell us after He goes back to Heaven there is the new day of worship or God's new holy day? Where does Paul say it? Acts 20 does not say Gods 4th commandment is deleted and Sunday is the new holy day. You are making scripture say something is doesn't when we have God's Word that is so plainly written.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isaiah 58"13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Awesome you’ve posted a commandment of keeping the Sabbath here’s one about Gentiles among the Jews must be circumcised.


“This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:10-14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In Acts 15 this law was abolished.
 
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HARK!

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No, not necessarily. Jesus didn’t say He would abolish the need for Gentiles to be circumcised to enter into God’s covenant, it was the Church that relayed the message.

YHWH establishes a covenant with Abraham:

(CLV) Gn 12:1
Yahweh |said to Abram: Go by yourself from your land, from your kindred and from your father's house to the land that I shall show you.

(CLV) Gn 12:2
I shall make you into a great nation, And I shall bless you; I shall indeed make your name great, And you will indeed be a blessing;

(CLV) Gn 12:3
I shall indeed bless those blessing you, And I shall curse the one maledicting you. In you all the families of the ground will be blessed.

(CLV) Gn 12:4
So Abram went just as Yahweh had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he went forth- from Charan.

Abraham acted in faith. 24 years later he showed the outward sign as a seal of his faith.


(CLV) Gn 17:24
Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he had the flesh of his foreskin circumcised.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Awesome you’ve posted a commandment of keeping the Sabbath here’s one about Gentiles among the Jews must be circumcised.


“This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:10-14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In Acts 15 this law was abolished.
Where do you find circumcision in the Ten commandments? Are you suggesting we ignore Paul when he tells us what matters is keeping God's commandments, which includes the 4th commandment?
 
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HARK!

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The only way for the Law of Moses to be fulfilled was in blood on a wooden cross.

All of the Torah and the prophets was not fulfilled at the pale (cross) Yahshua said so himself.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be (future tense) fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

The best is yet to come!

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Why did you stop there?

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring
(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.
 
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BABerean2

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All of the Torah and the prophets was not fulfilled at the pale (cross) Yahshua said so himself.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be (future tense) fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

The best is yet to come!


Luke 24:44

(ESV) Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

(ESV+) Then he said to them, R11“These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, R12that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

(Geneva) And he saide vnto them, These are the wordes, which I spake vnto you while I was yet with you, that all must be fulfilled which are written of me in the Lawe of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalmes.

(GW) Then he said to them, "These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you. I told you that everything written about me in Moses' Teachings, the Prophets, and the Psalms had to come true."

(KJV) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

(KJV+) AndG1161 he saidG2036 unto them,G846 TheseG3778 are theG3588 wordsG3056 whichG3739 I spakeG2980 untoG4314 you,G5209 while I wasG5607 yetG2089 withG4862 you,G5213 thatG3754 all thingsG3956 mustG1163 be fulfilled,G4137 which were writtenG1125 inG1722 theG3588 lawG3551 of Moses,G3475 andG2532 in the prophets,G4396 andG2532 in the psalms,G5568 concerningG4012 me.G1700

(NKJV) Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

(NLT) Then he said, “When I was with you before, I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

(YLT) and he said to them, 'These are the words that I spake unto you, being yet with you, that it behoveth to be fulfilled all the things that are written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms, about me.'


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Ceallaigh

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God’s 4th commandment says nothing about Saturday. 6 days shall you work but on the 7th rest. He didn’t say the 7th day of the week.

And it was not started by the Roman Catholic Church it was started by Paul.

Indeed. The writings by early church fathers regrading the sabbath shown in post #533, were written more than a century before Constantine issued his civil decree. I guess EGW didn't research that thoroughly enough.
 
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HARK!

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Luke 24:44

(ESV) Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

(ESV+) Then he said to them, R11“These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, R12that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

(Geneva) And he saide vnto them, These are the wordes, which I spake vnto you while I was yet with you, that all must be fulfilled which are written of me in the Lawe of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalmes.

(GW) Then he said to them, "These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you. I told you that everything written about me in Moses' Teachings, the Prophets, and the Psalms had to come true."

(KJV) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

(KJV+) AndG1161 he saidG2036 unto them,G846 TheseG3778 are theG3588 wordsG3056 whichG3739 I spakeG2980 untoG4314 you,G5209 while I wasG5607 yetG2089 withG4862 you,G5213 thatG3754 all thingsG3956 mustG1163 be fulfilled,G4137 which were writtenG1125 inG1722 theG3588 lawG3551 of Moses,G3475 andG2532 in the prophets,G4396 andG2532 in the psalms,G5568 concerningG4012 me.G1700

(NKJV) Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

(NLT) Then he said, “When I was with you before, I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

(YLT) and he said to them, 'These are the words that I spake unto you, being yet with you, that it behoveth to be fulfilled all the things that are written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms, about me.'


.

The CLV is a literal translation.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be (future tense) fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

Posting mistranslations doesn't change the facts.

If we read down just a few more verses, It's clear that Yahshua was still with them on earth when he said this.

(CLV) Lk 24:50
Now He led them out as far as to Bethany, and, lifting up His hands, He blesses them.

(CLV) Lk 24:51
And it occurred as He is blessing them, He put an interval between Himself and them, and He was carried up into heaven.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Indeed. The writings by early church fathers regrading the sabbath in post #533, were written more than a century before the Constantine issued his civil decree.
Where's the scripture? Should be easy enough. If there was going to be such a significant change to one of God's holy commandments, especially the one that says REMEMBER, where is the scripture stating God's 4th commandment should be forgotten or erased and the new day of worship is now on the first day and that day God now deemed His new holy day and blessed and sanctified it? Where is that scripture?

Remember the Pharisee was following Jesus and watching Him to see if He was going to break God's Sabbath which He did not John 15:10. This type of change would have caused an upheaval in scriptures. It would not have been a silent change, trying to piece scriptures hoping to find a way to make it say something it clearly does not, all while avoiding the very plain scripture God did provide regarding the only day He deemed holy in the entire Bible. Exodus 20:8-11 and all the other 170+ scriptures in the bible on God's holy day, the seventh day Sabbath.
 
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BABerean2

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The CLV is a literal translation.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be (future tense) fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

Posting mistranslations doesn't change the facts.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be (future tense) fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."


I have never seen a translation which included the words (future tense).

And then you say all other translators are wrong. Is this is a unique way of making your Bible doctrine work, or have others tried the same thing in the past?

(KJV+) AndG1161 he saidG2036 unto them,G846 TheseG3778 are theG3588 wordsG3056 whichG3739 I spakeG2980 untoG4314 you,G5209 while I wasG5607 yetG2089 withG4862 you,G5213 thatG3754 all thingsG3956 mustG1163 be fulfilled,G4137 which were writtenG1125 inG1722 theG3588 lawG3551 of Moses,G3475 andG2532 in the prophets,G4396 andG2532 in the psalms,G5568 concerningG4012 me.G1700

And at the same time you ignore what the early Church Fathers said about the Sabbath before the Council of Nicaea.


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guevaraj

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I have never seen a translation which included the words (future tense). And then you say all other translators are wrong. Is this is a unique way of making your Bible doctrine work, or have others tried the same thing in the past?
Brother, the reason Judaism doesn't accept Jesus is because Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophesies about the Messiah. Specifically, "the rock" that hits the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, destroys all earlier empires and establishes a kingdom that will "never" end.

In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. (Daniel 2:44-45a NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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I have never seen a translation which included the words (future tense).

Notice that those words are between commas. I added that note in case you might have had difficulty recognizing the tense.

(KJV+) AndG1161 he saidG2036 unto them,G846 TheseG3778 are theG3588 wordsG3056 whichG3739 I spakeG2980 untoG4314 you,G5209 while I wasG5607 yetG2089 withG4862 you,G5213 thatG3754 all thingsG3956 mustG1163 be fulfilled,G4137 which were writtenG1125 inG1722 theG3588 lawG3551 of Moses,G3475 andG2532 in the prophets,G4396 andG2532 in the psalms,G5568 concerningG4012 me.G1700

ελαλησα G2980

STRONGS NT 2980: λαλέω
λαλέω, λαλῶ; imperfect 3 person singular ἐλάλει, plural ἐλάλουν; future λαλήσω; 1 aorist ἐλάλησα; perfect λελάληκα; passive, present λαλοῦμαι; perfect λελάλημαι; 1 aorist ἐλαλήθην; 1 future λαληθήσομαι:

Greek Information on ἐλάλησα
close-x.svg

Inflected: ἐλάλησα
Root: λαλέω
speaker3.svg

Strong's: G2980
Code: V-AAI-1S
Long: Verb - Aorist Active Indicative - 1st Person Singular
Speech: Verb
Tense: Aorist
Voice: Active
Mood: Indicative
Person: 1st Person
Number: Singular

The aorist usually implies a past event in the indicative, but it does not assert pastness, and can be used of present or future events.

Based on this word alone; we must rely on context.

G5607

G5607 ὤν - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number

Previous Strong's #G5606 Next Strong's #G5608

Strong's:
ὤν
, including the feminine οὖσα ; and the neuter ὄν being
Derivation: present participle of G1510;
This makes sense. He hadn't ascended yet.

(CLV) Lk 24:50
Now He led them out as far as to Bethany, and, lifting up His hands, He blesses them.

(CLV) Lk 24:51
And it occurred as He is blessing them, He put an interval between Himself and them, and He was carried up into heaven.

He was still with them.

G2089 ἔτι - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number

Previous Strong's #G2088 Next Strong's #G2090

LSJ Gloss:
ἔτι
yet, as yet, still
Dodson:
ἔτι
still, yet, even now
(a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition.

And at the same time you ignore what the early Church Fathers said about the Sabbath before the Council of Nicaea.

These so called church fathers don't override Yahshua.

(CLV) Mt 23:9
And `father' you should not be calling one of you on the earth, for One is your Father, the heavenly.

They also don't override the father himself.

(CLV) Ex 31:16
Hence the sons of Israel will keep the sabbath so as to make the sabbath an eonian covenant throughout their generations.

(CLV) Ex 31:17
Between Me and the sons of Israel it shall be a sign for the eon, for in six days Yahweh dealt with the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He ceased and was refreshed.
 
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(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be (future tense) fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."


I have never seen a translation which included the words (future tense).

And then you say all other translators are wrong. Is this is a unique way of making your Bible doctrine work, or have others tried the same thing in the past?

(KJV+) AndG1161 he saidG2036 unto them,G846 TheseG3778 are theG3588 wordsG3056 whichG3739 I spakeG2980 untoG4314 you,G5209 while I wasG5607 yetG2089 withG4862 you,G5213 thatG3754 all thingsG3956 mustG1163 be fulfilled,G4137 which were writtenG1125 inG1722 theG3588 lawG3551 of Moses,G3475 andG2532 in the prophets,G4396 andG2532 in the psalms,G5568 concerningG4012 me.G1700

And at the same time you ignore what the early Church Fathers said about the Sabbath before the Council of Nicaea.


.

Also worth noting is that the author of the CLV was excommunicated for heresy... So watch for translation bias...
 
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