Public healthcare

Judy02

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Just curious...what are people's overall views of there being a (now 60 year) public healthcare system in place in this country, that is funded via our taxes.

I won't deny the NHS is not perfectly run and there are things not so great about it, but does anyone believe we should abandon this concept altogether? Or do you think it's a good thing to have?
 

non-religious

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I'm proud of the NHS, but yes of course it has it's faults. I have been an in-patient many times (Crohns disease - prayers for healing greatly appreciated ;)) and the care I recieved has always been good. In America the healthcare system seems to really punish the poor and that just seems horrible and cruel (just like the death penalty huh :p)

There is an element of the post-code lottery thing associated with hospitals and care, becos you can live in a part of the UK that has an excellent hospital and another part that doesn't. That's why national frameworks are there, but they seem to make little to no difference. Pay nurses more, get more midwives (we are expecting our second child just before Christmas day and I am slightly anxious about the shortage of midwives) and bring in more matrons. That would be a positive start. The private cleaning firms was also a bad idea.

Other than that, the NHS has served us extremely well and it's something that I am genuingly proud of.
 
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zaksmummy

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Pay nurses more


Yes please, I'd like a pay rise;)

From my POV - get the government to leave it alone for a bit, things change too much and too often, you just have got to grips with one thing and they change it or add too it.

Get rid of more managers, they also add burden on top and they arent much help to be truthful.

Part of the problem is that they want to run it like a business. They also want it to be financially efficient so they cut the budget, but this has been said for the past twenty years, its now in some places its so financially starved that staff are getting made redundant or their jobs are being downgrades - which is a pretty bad state of affairs when you've worked hard, become knowledgeable and skilful, and then for someone to say, well actually we're not going to pay you as a band 7, your job could be done by a band 5, so you're job is going but you can apply for the other job.

Thankfully this hasnt happened in the trust where I work, but I know of nurses it has happened too.
 
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AllTalkNoAction

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There are economies of scale - a nationwide organisation will have better buying power, uniform standards & communications etc.

Many separate organisations would all have to have their own training & administration set-up.

NHS has been a vistim of "health tourism" where people conceal their illness, come to this country and the "become sick". But would another system stop this happening?
 
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uberd00b

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It's a privilege to be able to pay money so that everyone can receive healthcare.

I do have a problem with privatisation of these public services into profit making organistions. When you see hospitals are making it a goal to have beds full rather than beds empty it's time to scratch your head.
 
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Assyrian

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When you see hospitals are making it a goal to have beds full rather than beds empty it's time to scratch your head.
I was going to say
NICE
but then I realised...

Management says an efficient business is a good business, and an efficient health service is one working at full capacity, all the beds full and all the staff working as hard as they can. Then we hit an emergency, and the 'efficient system' struggles to cope. By all means keep the economies of scale the NHS has, but let doctors and nurses run it. If we had matrons in charge of cleanliness standards instead of big business managers hiring the cheapest cleaning subcontractors we would not have our wards run by MRSA and C-Dif.
 
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Assyrian

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non religioius said:
Pay nurses more
Yes please, I'd like a pay rise;)
party0049.gif

Go nurses!
party0049.gif

Go nurses!
party0049.gif

Go nurses!
party0049.gif

Go nurses!
 
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ScottishJohn

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What the NHS has demonstrated is the superiority of the public healthcare system over private healthcare. Like others here I am so thankful that we don't live in the US and have to cope with the US system. We had a baby last year and his head got stuck during a 21 hour labour, and he eventually had to be delivered by C section. It was hard. I was thankful at every stage that I did not have to think about whether we were insured for such and such a procedure, or whether we could afford any of the treatment needed.

The downfall of our system is the playoff between what we pay and what we expect. We spend less per head than a large portion of the developed world on the NHS, less than France, Germany, Switzerland, and 10 others, yet expect it to deliver the best quality possible. We actually spend less on the NHS (which covers every man woman and child in the UK) than the US spend on medicare and medicaid (which covers the poorest and most vulnerable folk in the US)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/h...-government-expenditure-international-dollars

If we want to see an end to rationing, waiting lists, and problems with cleaning then we need to spend the money.

And I would add my hearty amen to those who would like to see an improvement in the pay for nurses.
 
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MarcusHill

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I wholeheartedly agree that, despite its undoubted problems, the NHS is one of the reasons I think the UK is a far better place to live than the US. Ask me again in a year or two after my brother has emigrated to the US - he's a nurse.
 
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ScottishJohn

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I wholeheartedly agree that, despite its undoubted problems, the NHS is one of the reasons I think the UK is a far better place to live than the US. Ask me again in a year or two after my brother has emigrated to the US - he's a nurse.

I don't think the two systems are even vaguely comparable. The US could spend twice what we spend per head overall on healthcare, and still save over $1000 per head. That's a saving of 300 billion every year. Which incidentally is almost enough to bankroll the NHS twice as we have a population of only 65 million.

For that amount of waste your brother should enjoy his time in the US - he should be working in diamond studded surroundings with a team of minions to do his job and a 3 star michelin chef to prepare his meals!
 
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Holly's_Dream

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Have you ever seen that film, oh, whats it called now..... Sicko.
That explores the health care systems across mainly the states but also europe and the uk.
I think ours is by far the best. As someone with a genetic condition and on low income, i would not be able to afford my healthcare bill anywhere else, and my condition is not chronic, it just requires a lot of check-ups and the odd surgery every couple of years.
I am in contact with people with the same condition across the world and a lot of them without a government/tax-payer funded health care system get trapped by insurance companies refusing to pay and bills they cant afford.
I would hate to have to make the choice between medical care and the electric bill or the weekly groceries.
Because of this i now work voluntarily for the nhs. Obviously since im not trained (but applying to university) i can only do small jobs like answer phones, hand out meals and change beds. But our ward is usually hugely short staffed with 2 midwives to 26 beds, so if someone can stop the phone from ringing badly and allow them to focus on patient care - why not.
The NHS has some major flaws, but it works remarkabley well considering.
 
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Lotuspetal_uk

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Maybe I've fallen through the net somehow but I'm not happy with it at all.

Because so much gets taken out of my salary each month, I can't afford private care but yet I am not getting adequate treatment to assist me to get back into work. I have been in severe pain since Sept, yet had no investigative treatment because it'll cost the GP surgery too much. I've had to pay privately for an ultrasound to put my mind at rest, but can't now afford to go private for an x-ray, MRI, etc to actually find out what's wrong with me. Back in Sept I was trying to get appointments at my surgery and couldn't get through, yet when I finally make it into the GP the waiting room is empty. I've spent close to a hundred pounds in prescription bills so far for pain killers.

I had to go into hospital for an operation a couple of years ago and came away with the operation wound infected because the hospital was filthy.

I spent 2 years paying privately for a chiropractor because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to walk whilst waiting 2 months for physio treatment.

Just where is one third of my salary going to because it is most certainly not helping me locally?
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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I think it's fantastic that we have an NHS that is free at the point of use...well, almost. I do very strongly believe that bringing in private contractors, charging for prescriptions and worst of all charging for all dentistry is a serious violation of what the NHS should be about. Fortunately I'm poor enough to have a HC2 exemption form...which also covers free sight tests and travel expenses reimbursed. :cool: Yay taxis to the doctors when its raining! ;)

Our hospitals are obviously far from perfect in many areas, but I think that if there is any systemic problem that causes this it is the creeping privatisation that New 'Labour' brought. Other than that, I think hospitals need more resources and better trained and better paid staff.
 
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ScottishJohn

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Maybe I've fallen through the net somehow but I'm not happy with it at all.

Because so much gets taken out of my salary each month, I can't afford private care but yet I am not getting adequate treatment to assist me to get back into work. I have been in severe pain since Sept, yet had no investigative treatment because it'll cost the GP surgery too much. I've had to pay privately for an ultrasound to put my mind at rest, but can't now afford to go private for an x-ray, MRI, etc to actually find out what's wrong with me. Back in Sept I was trying to get appointments at my surgery and couldn't get through, yet when I finally make it into the GP the waiting room is empty. I've spent close to a hundred pounds in prescription bills so far for pain killers.

I had to go into hospital for an operation a couple of years ago and came away with the operation wound infected because the hospital was filthy.

I spent 2 years paying privately for a chiropractor because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to walk whilst waiting 2 months for physio treatment.

Just where is one third of my salary going to because it is most certainly not helping me locally?

If you went private the surgery would most likely be done in the same hospital by the same surgeon.

The problem with cleanliness stems from privatising the cleaning contracts and expecting the same people to do the same job for a fraction of the wage, while their new managers swallowed the difference. Result - we spent as much money on cleaning as we did before, but the hospitals don't get cleaned properly.
 
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Lotuspetal_uk

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If you went private the surgery would most likely be done in the same hospital by the same surgeon....

And this is what I don't understand..... that this is allowed to happen but in a shorter amount of time. But it's wrong that we're already paying for the service but essentially we're being forced to pay for it twice in order to be seen in an acceptable time.
 
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ScottishJohn

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And this is what I don't understand..... that this is allowed to happen but in a shorter amount of time. But it's wrong that we're already paying for the service but essentially we're being forced to pay for it twice in order to be seen in an acceptable time.

It is because of the way the NHS contracts were drawn up in the 40s. Surgeons and Consultants and so on are allowed as part of their package time in NHS facilities to see private patients. It is a financial benefit to them, at very little cost to us.

The point is however, had you gone private you would have been seen in the same hospital and in the same conditions.

As far as the time frame is concerned it really depends on what your condition is and what the NHS can manage.

The problem as I see it, is that we spend less than other similar countries like France and Germany, but expect (and in most respects get) a world class service. Iceland, Germany, The United States, France, Norway, Canada, Switzerland, Denmark, Belgium, Australia, Japan, Netherlands, Austria, Italy and Ireland all spend more per head than we do on their publicly provided health care.

Waiting times and rationing are to do with demand outstripping supply, and the solution is to increase supply, which costs money. What we currently have is incredible value for money, with several problems relating to that, like for instance, waiting times.

By and large waiting times are considerably less than they were when the Tories had finished wreaking havoc on the NHS in the 80s and 90s, but if we spent less on, say renting nuclear weapons from the US, then we would have more to spend on the NHS without raising the tax implications.
 
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shout2thelord

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And this is what I don't understand..... that this is allowed to happen but in a shorter amount of time. But it's wrong that we're already paying for the service but essentially we're being forced to pay for it twice in order to be seen in an acceptable time.

This is the same problem i have, tried to get a dentist for 3 years but couldnt even get on a year long waiting list. Eventually i managed to get enough money to go private.

Same with a doctors, but i usually just pray and hope i get better, if i get sick. Rather than see a private doctor and pay again.
 
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Lotuspetal_uk

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This is the same problem i have, tried to get a dentist for 3 years but couldnt even get on a year long waiting list. Eventually i managed to get enough money to go private.

Same with a doctors, but i usually just pray and hope i get better, if i get sick. Rather than see a private doctor and pay again.
Yep you reminded me about the dentist - I was told that if I went private I would get appointment when I liked. So I went private and then still couldn't get the appointment when it suited me. So I'm back to 'what kind of service am I paying for???'

As with the doctors, I'm at the same point now. I'm not totally back to good health but am praying that it does not deteriorate.
 
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ScottishJohn

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This is the same problem i have, tried to get a dentist for 3 years but couldnt even get on a year long waiting list. Eventually i managed to get enough money to go private.

Same with a doctors, but i usually just pray and hope i get better, if i get sick. Rather than see a private doctor and pay again.

Dentists are different. We chose not to negotiate proper contracts with dentists when the NHS was set up (and opticians). I'm surprised that in three years you haven't been able to get an NHS dentist. I know of several NHS dentists taking on patients in Glasgow.

With Doctors are required to see you within 48 hours, but this doesn't always happen. Again this is a funding issue, and down to the fact that we pay less than most other countries of our size and wealth.

However frustrating the UK system may be at times it is a head and shoulders better than anything the private sector has to offer.

The US relies mainly on private medicine and pays heavily for the privilege. If you take what the US pays for healthcare per head per year, they could spend double what we spend and still have enough money left over to pay for our entire health service. That is where privatisation gets you.
 
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