Public Education

[Hermit76]

Is public education redeemable? Is it time for Orthodox families to pull their children out?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think that depends on where you are.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

We’ve pulled ours out. It’s actually going well. They’re both enjoying homeschooling.

 

[Brightmoon]

I supplemented my kids education by buying a lot of books. I included textbooks . I didn’t make them read any of the books I purchased . They’d just pick up a book if they got bored. One’s now a biochemist, the other a computer scientist . Im afraid i don’t have much patience with people who won’t educate themselves. They want their kids to do well in school but don’t have a single book in the house. Even a comic books, romance novel or fascist military novel library is better than that.

 

[Hermit76]

We’ve pulled ours out. It’s actually going well. They’re both enjoying homeschooling.

We've done the same with our three at home. I'm a public school teacher btw

 

[Hermit76]

I think that depends on where you are.

Education is becoming nationalized very quickly and thus becoming globalized. The only argument we receive is socialization... which is the best counterargument

 

[Hermit76]

I supplemented my kids education by buying a lot of books. I included textbooks . I didn’t make them read any of the books I purchased . They’d just pick up a book if they got bored. One’s now a biochemist, the other a computer scientist . Im afraid i don’t have much patience with people who won’t educate themselves. They want their kids to do well in school but don’t have a single book in the house. Even a comic books, romance novel or fascist military novel library is better than that.

I agree about reading and a library. Generally the Orthodox Christians I've met are readers. They are also concerned about the negative worldview that schools provide.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Education is becoming nationalized very quickly and thus becoming globalized. The only argument we receive is socialization... which is the best counterargument

In our school, the kids pray and read the Bible along with receiving a catechism as part of the curriculum. Forget this nonsense:

 

[ArmyMatt]

Education is becoming nationalized very quickly and thus becoming globalized. The only argument we receive is socialization... which is the best counterargument

maybe, I dunno. all I know is there are some solid teachers still in public education, but I have family members in education who say it's much different than when I went to school.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I’m old enough to remember getting paddled by the principal for roughhousing during recess in third grade. That was a lesson in consequences I learned early on. I feel bad for kids growing up who’ve never had consequences taught to them earlier in life and having to learn that lesson as a young adult by catching a felony riot charge.

 

[rusmeister]

As to the question, “Is it redeemable?”, no it is not. But until you learn the history of the schools, you cannot see how that is. The most despicable thing to me is how everyone has an opinion about the schools, but hardly anyone knows the history. It’s absurd. Most think their opinion authoritative because they sat at a desk as a child in the schools; a smaller number work for the schools and STILL don’t know the history, except maybe the slogan the “Horace Mann is the father of American education”.

A system DELIBERATELY DESIGNED to wrest control of the thinking of children from their parents cannot be “redeemed”. It can be resisted, but most don’t understand it well enough to effectively resist, and children are certainly incapable of doing so.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

I think we should still try to redeem it (by voting and what not). Some children would only get any sort of education from public schools because of various reasons due to family life (two parents working, single parent households, abusive households, etc.) public school is also a great tool for recognizing physical abuse in children.
However, I know that if I had children (my husband and I have already discussed it ) we would either homeschool (or online K-12) or private school (which would probably never be an option due to the price). We decided this because of the lack of education but the biggest reason was because of the amount of school shootings.
Socialization would be supplemented by clubs and sports and other things provided by community services like the Library or community centers.

 

[rusmeister]

As if I hadn’t said a word...

 

[Hermit76]

As Rus reflected, I believe that public schools are part of a greater movement to decentralize the home (especially as outline in Christianity). This idea that we give away our children freely to the state, or a protestant church, to form is insanity. I am a public school teacher. I only remain there because I need a job and I still feel like I am contributing to individual students (those abused, etc.). However, I make no self justifications in the false idea that I am providing lasting change for most, if not all, of my students.
The larger picture even gets into the ideology of the American Dream. This is a local idea that we have spread through globalization (including protestant missionary endeavors). Westernization places success as ease of life and a certain level of wealth. Neither of which are ideas espoused by the Church. With the rising of the so called middle class we have been led to believe that these goals are achievable for all. Mathematically speaking this is impossible. Practically speaking it is impossible without generally sacrificing the principles of our faith. There is no need to show me examples otherwise. There will always be counter-examples when dealing with such a broad population. Those who do not require two-income homes are exceptions to this rule. Even when the exceptions exist there are motivations for the second potential income to be engaged in activities that require that the children be gone from the home (general involvement in busyness). Basically we have created the results of a single parent home even when there are two parents. Society has to develop some excuse to remove the parents for the better part of the waking day in order to effect change in the worldviews of individuals. The advent of "socialization" as a virtue for children has led to many to justify the abandonment of their children.
Socialization skill is a rational "virtue" that becomes unraveled in the light of the Church's teaching. We are to raise our children to become Godly adults. We recognize the foolishness of early human development (When I was a child...). We are to guide them through this time where passion is king into a life that deals with these passions when we are mature enough to do so. Childhood is a great opportunity to guide and instill TRUE virtue through our Orthodox Lives. When we hand over our children for socialization, we err in two areas. First, we err in thinking that all adults have the ability to guide our children to becoming adults. Let us consider the state of society today. Those means are not supported by the results. Second we err in thinking that being exposed to age level peers somehow aides in that quest. I am not teaching my 10 year old how to be a good 10 year old. He is a professional. I am charged with teaching my 10 year old how to interpret the world he will live in as an adult. I am charged with showing him God in all things. His peers, especially those from non-Orthodox worldviews, are incapable of showing him anything regarding Truth. For the most part even he is incapable of doing so. Childhood is the ultimate catechumenate. As we have seen (especially those of us who were catechumen as adults), catechumen are not able to fully understand or interpret the world through the eyes of Orthodoxy. I myself have been in the Orthodox Church for 4 years and I still have to answer "I don't know" to most questions. In the end socialization of peer groups is best when limited. Even the best intended teacher is unable to provide enough antidote to the social ills learned in school from peers. This presents an existential problem in public (and most private) schools. We are failing to raise pious church men and women because we fail to teach them.
I haven't even gotten into the problems with content teaching. Most content teaching is a failure due to societal influences (entertainment, media, and social networking). Math is no longer taught as an applicable subject due to the lack of basic problem solving skills in most students. This is due to ease of life and a lack of early opportunities to problem solve. Language is marred due to the death of traditional language usage in all mediums. Science is now approached without consideration of the Divine. Social Studies is well planned to direct interpretation in the wokeness of the day. P.E. serves the passions through a acquiescence to the laziness of an easy life. Even special education serves (in great terms) is a crutch to undesirable traits instead of real disability. We still have to operate public schools due to the dysfunction of society. However, for Orthodox Christians that provides little respite of conscience.
I encourage Orthodox Christians to make whatever sacrifice necessary to right this wrong in the family. That may mean poverty and loss of pride and comfort. A question arose recently in a conversation regarding this. Many families will face legal bankruptcy if they lose an income. I have resigned myself that the greater sin would be to fail children than to continue in this cycle. I would really like your thoughts (you are in the Orthodox Forum) regarding this point.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

It helps if you’re not trying to keep up with the Joneses and up to your eyeballs in debt. If you’re not doing either of those things, a single (modest) income should suffice enough to homeschool. It’s possible to do, but it requires the sacrifice of materialism.

 

[Hermit76]

It helps if you’re not trying to keep up with the Joneses and up to your eyeballs in debt. If you’re not doing either of those things, a single (modest) income should suffice enough to homeschool. It’s possible to do, but it requires the sacrifice of materialism.

What about those who are already in debt. Do they sacrifice their children or face the consequences of legally not meeting those obligations?

 

[Justin-H.S.]

What about those who are already in debt. Do they sacrifice their children or face the consequences of legally not meeting those obligations?

Dave Ramsey - Financial Peace University. Get out of debt by any means possible. If that means selling your McMansion for something a little more modest, then perhaps that's what you should do. Don't be driving a Bimmer and then complain about being in debt. I drive an 18 year old pick-up truck that I take care of and it keeps on going. My wife drives a 13 year old Toyota. Both are paid off. Take care of your things. Change the oil when it should be changed. Americans have lost the virtue of Thrift since they were marketed the American Dream. Who are you trying to impress with your expensive things?

Modern day Americans: "The car needs an oil change. Time for a trade-in."

I'm exaggerating of course, but that's the kind of mindset a lot of Americans have these days. Meanwhile poor Indians are daily driving in Delhi a 30 year old Jeepney duct taped together, but hey at least he's not in debt.

Debt is the illusion of wealth. You're not really wealthy if the bank can come take your house if you miss a payment.

 

[Hermit76]

Dave Ramsey - Financial Peace University. Get out of debt by any means possible. If that means selling your McMansion for something a little more modest, then perhaps that's what you should do. Don't be driving a Bimmer and then complain about being in debt. I drive an 18 year old pick-up truck that I take care of and it keeps on going. My wife drives a 13 year old Toyota. Both are paid off. Take care of your things. Change the oil when it should be changed. Americans have lost the virtue of Thrift since they were marketed the American Dream. Who are you trying to impress with your expensive things?

Modern day Americans: "The car needs an oil change. Time for a trade-in."

I'm exaggerating of course, but that's the kind of mindset a lot of Americans have these days. Meanwhile poor Indians are daily driving in Delhi a 30 year old Jeepney duct taped together, but hey at least he's not in debt.

Debt is the illusion of wealth. You're not really wealthy if the bank can come take your house if you miss a payment.

Yes, but some people have no assets to sell.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Yes, but some people have no assets to sell.

Houses and cars aren’t assets, they’re liabilities. A profitable rental property would be an asset. A four door sedan would be an asset if you can make owning one profitable by renting out your time: door dash or Uber, for example. If it’s costing you more money every month to hold on to, it’s a liability. If you rent it out, you may break even in which case the house would be on its way to becoming an asset. The game is to try to minimize your liabilities and maximize the assets. The problem is most Americans don’t know the differences between the two.

 

[Hermit76]

Houses and cars aren’t assets, they’re liabilities. A profitable rental property would be an asset. A four door sedan would be an asset if you can make owning one profitable by renting out your time: door dash or Uber, for example. If it’s costing you more money every month to hold on to, it’s a liability. If you rent it out, you may break even in which case the house would be on its way to becoming an asset. The game is to try to minimize your liabilities and maximize the assets. The problem is most Americans don’t know the differences between the two.

You mentioned selling a house to get out of debt. The scenario I'm submitting is debt that they can't both pay and have a single income household (consumer, medical, etc.). What is the answer for these? Bankruptcy? Leave their kids in school and have the wife work?