Psychic friend

DW1980

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Hi

I'm not sure you've understood my question? Apologies if I was not clear.

DW, Raymond has asked you the right questions and you really need to take his questions more seriously...

Shame on you for ignoring the question of whether your friend believes in Christ as his Savior, as if his spiritual gifts make that issue irrelevant.

He is not a Christian - hence my concern. Spiritual gifts come from the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:4). I think psychics and mediums (assuming they are genuinely communicating with spirit beings) are using the same parts of our spiritual selves to do this. The issue is the source of these messages. (cf 1 John 4:1) If it's not from the Holy Spirit, it's demonic, right? In my friends case, it cannot be the Holy Spirit if he is not a Christian, as we only receive the Holy Spirit when we are born again (Gal 3:2-5). If we are saying that someone without the Holy Spirit is able to do this, and it's okay, then we're ignoring everything else the Bible says about consulting mediums.

So, my concern is precisely that he has not received Christ as his Saviour, and is therefore opening himself up to demonic activity.

Maybe your friend needs to serve as your mentor and disciple you in the spiritual gifts. How do you know your friend is not validly exercising "the gift of prophecy" and "the world of knowledge?
As I mentioned, I thought I had been clear. He cannot be validly exercising the spiritual gifts without the Holy Spirit.

You have conveniently failed to tell us whether your friend serves as a trance medium. So you give us no meaningful basis to judge him, let alone to take sides on this issue.
I also didn't mention tarot cards - I'm unsure how this is relevant, maybe I don't know enough about it. Again, my question is around someone who is (or believes he is) communicating with spirits - which Biblically cannot be from God. As I understand it, this is a very dangerous thing for him to be doing.

I hope this helps clarify.
 
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JacksBratt

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Hi

I'm not sure you've understood my question? Apologies if I was not clear.



He is not a Christian - hence my concern. Spiritual gifts come from the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:4). I think psychics and mediums (assuming they are genuinely communicating with spirit beings) are using the same parts of our spiritual selves to do this. The issue is the source of these messages. (cf 1 John 4:1) If it's not from the Holy Spirit, it's demonic, right? In my friends case, it cannot be the Holy Spirit if he is not a Christian, as we only receive the Holy Spirit when we are born again (Gal 3:2-5). If we are saying that someone without the Holy Spirit is able to do this, and it's okay, then we're ignoring everything else the Bible says about consulting mediums.

So, my concern is precisely that he has not received Christ as his Saviour, and is therefore opening himself up to demonic activity.


As I mentioned, I thought I had been clear. He cannot be validly exercising the spiritual gifts without the Holy Spirit.


I also didn't mention tarot cards - I'm unsure how this is relevant, maybe I don't know enough about it. Again, my question is around someone who is (or believes he is) communicating with spirits - which Biblically cannot be from God. As I understand it, this is a very dangerous thing for him to be doing.

I hope this helps clarify.
Tarot cards, Ouija boards, palm reading, tea leaves, crystal balls, cranial bumps, ALL of this stuff is dangerous.

I had a friend who got into using Ouija with a group. Whenever she went back to this persons house, she would get an excruciating headache... until she used the board. The pain would return, anytime she stopped using the board, until the spirit which possessed that board had been satisfied. Then and only then could she leave and not get the pain in her head.
 
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DW1980

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Tarot cards, Ouija boards, palm reading, tea leaves, crystal balls, cranial bumps, ALL of this stuff is dangerous.

I had a friend who got into using Ouija with a group. Whenever she went back to this persons house, she would get an excruciating headache... until she used the board. The pain would return, anytime she stopped using the board, until the spirit which possessed that board had been satisfied. Then and only then could she leave and not get the pain in her head.

I absolutely agree with you - that's why I want to learn how to help my friend.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Hi

I wasn't sure whether to post this in advice, or theology, but as I guess I am looking for advice I went with this - apologies if it's wrong.

I have a friend who not only believes in psychics, but claims to be one. What's interesting is that there are a lot of stories, and I don't believe this is made up. And that worries me. I know that "real" psychic activity doesn't come from God.

How do you witness to this kind of person? Their spiritual experiences are as real as mine. So where someone says they have talked with dead relatives, and someone who they didn't know, but after research discovered that the person existed and that the details were right, I can't just say "that's not true".

Has anyone had any experience of this kind of thing? What's the best way to witness to someone like this, without risking a good friendship?

Thanks
Psychic abilities come from "extra sensory perceptions" since they are sensory perceptions, these are of the flesh. What Christianity is about is being born again in the Holy Spirit, the new person we become has its own set of faculties that transcend this continuum of observation.

Christianity is about nurturing the spirit and not so much the flesh, truth isn't so much about gathering information but about a truth that sets you free and a truth that you can embody.

Psychic information can be regard much like media bias or social media, you get information, but its easy to miss details right in front of you. I recall the hotline for Jojo's psychic alliance when it went bankrupt, a comic said "guess they didn't see that one coming"
You'd think they'd have known: JoJo's Psychic Alliance collapses on 250 tele-seers. | HighBeam Business: Arrive Prepared

The main harm psychic powers seems to commonly cause is that they can see the problems in other people's lives ... but not their own. If you want to be "of service" to your "friend" you may wish to point out their blindspots if your relationship is strong enough for that, they might appreciate it.
 
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JacksBratt

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Psychic abilities come from "extra sensory perceptions" since they are sensory perceptions, these are of the flesh. What Christianity is about is being born again in the Holy Spirit, the new person we become has its own set of faculties that transcend this continuum of observation.

Christianity is about nurturing the spirit and not so much the flesh, truth isn't so much about gathering information but about a truth that sets you free and a truth that you can embody.

Psychic information can be regard much like media bias or social media, you get information, but its easy to miss details right in front of you. I recall the hotline for Jojo's psychic alliance when it went bankrupt, a comic said "guess they didn't see that one coming"
You'd think they'd have known: JoJo's Psychic Alliance collapses on 250 tele-seers. | HighBeam Business: Arrive Prepared

The main harm psychic powers seems to commonly cause is that they can see the problems in other people's lives ... but not their own. If you want to be "of service" to your "friend" you may wish to point out their blindspots if your relationship is strong enough for that, they might appreciate it.
I am no expert, but, I would bet that these "extra sensory perceptions" are of the spirit world as the "flesh" as you call it has no other "sensory Receptors".

Dealing with communication with other entities that are unseen is a very dangerous activity, no matter what the method or medium used.

These are not of the flesh. They are totally of the spirit and in the bible it is solidly stated to abstain from these activities.
 
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DennisTate

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Hi

I wasn't sure whether to post this in advice, or theology, but as I guess I am looking for advice I went with this - apologies if it's wrong.

I have a friend who not only believes in psychics, but claims to be one. What's interesting is that there are a lot of stories, and I don't believe this is made up. And that worries me. I know that "real" psychic activity doesn't come from God.

How do you witness to this kind of person? Their spiritual experiences are as real as mine. So where someone says they have talked with dead relatives, and someone who they didn't know, but after research discovered that the person existed and that the details were right, I can't just say "that's not true".

Has anyone had any experience of this kind of thing? What's the best way to witness to someone like this, without risking a good friendship?

Thanks

Did your psychic friend have a near death experience..........
or some sort of similar life changing event?

If somebody has a brush with death.... and speaks with their
miscarried sister that they had never even been told about......
and with their deceased grandfather........
then that is an entirely different sort of thing than
somebody being able to speak with the dead through hypnosis so it is important to
make the distinction between a situation that fits with II Corinthians 12:2-4 and one that does not.


It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth ; such an one caught up to the third heaven

And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth ;

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."


Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?
 
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RaymondG

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I am no expert, but, I would bet that these "extra sensory perceptions" are of the spirit world as the "flesh" as you call it has no other "sensory Receptors".

Dealing with communication with other entities that are unseen is a very dangerous activity, no matter what the method or medium used.

These are not of the flesh. They are totally of the spirit and in the bible it is solidly stated to abstain from these activities.
What is your take on the bible message to try the spirit and see if the be of God? And also what if we are approached by angels.....should we dismiss them because they are considered a different entity?
 
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Deadworm

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OK, you have finally disclosed that your psychic friend is not a Christian. In that case, it seems futile to quote bible verses to him that condemn channeling and magic. If I were you, I'd initiate dialogue by asking your friend to watch and then later discuss this Johanna Michaelson interview on her important book, "The Beautiful Side of Evil:"

johanna michaelson youtube - Bing video

I have come to 4 conclusions in my research on the specific case of channeling:
(1) My research has convinced me that some (very little) channeled contact is authentic. But keep in mind that the Serpent's temptation in the Garden of Eden implies the evil tells some truth only to set up an important lie.

(2) It's a mistake to assume that all channeling is demonic; much of it might simply by an unconscious use of ESP to create the illusion of genuine contact with the deceased.
Spiritual gifts are not in themselves a badge of true spirituality (Matthew 7:21-23).
(a) Leonore Piper is one of the most impressive mediums ever. She seemed to have the uncanny ability to channel two entities at the same time, one through automatic writing and the other through entranced speech. Psychologist G. Stanley Hall had a trick up his sleeve when he went for a sitting with her. She was currently using the spirit of Richard Hodgson as her control. Hodgson had formerly investigated her, but had recently died of a massive heart attack. Hall asked Hodgson's spirit to contact Hall’s niece, “Bessie Beals,” so that he might speak with her. Miss Beals was duly introduced and proceeded to communicate with Hall through Mrs. Piper. Actually Bessie Beals did not exist. She was a figment of Hall’s mind. “Hodgson,” in embarrassment tried to wriggle out of the situation, saying that he had been mistaken about the name. He said that the person brought was a Jessie Beals, related to another sitter.

(b) Dr. Samuel Soal visualized incidents with an imaginary friend, John Ferguson. He then went for a sitting with the medium, Blanche Cooper. The incidents he visualized came forth as though communicated by John from beyond death!


(1) What if sitters request contact with fake deceased relatives and the mediums still oblige with a very impressive channeling?

New Agers seem to imagine that channeled materials unknown to anyone living provide convincing evidence of contact with the dead. But what if a drop-in communicator could provide amazing verifications even involving precognition of the future, and yet, be later proven a fraud?

(3) What if the spirit control of mediums with impressive verifications can be proven to be a fraud? The spirit control is the alleged "operator" on the other side who brings the sitters in contact with their deceased loved ones.What conclusion would that warrant about other spirit controls whose self-professed identity cannot be verified? (a) At a sitting with medium Blanche Cooper on Jan. 4 ,1922, Dr. Samuel Soal’s deceased brother unexpectedly said, “Sam, I’ve brought someone who knows you.” Then in a very clear, strong, and familiar voice, Gordon Davis began to speak through Cooper. Davis was an old school acquaintance whom Soal believed to have been killed during World War I. Davis seemed to verify this when he said, “My poor wife is my only concern now--and my kiddie.” Soal thought he recognized Davis' tone of voice with its fastidious accent. The communicator used forms of expression that typified the real Gordon Davis' speech (e.g. “old chap”; “confab” instead of “meeting”). Davis spoke of the school they had attended, Rochford, and provided details of their last conversation. He proceeded to refer correctly to persons, places, and events from their school days. At two ensuing sittings on Jan. 9 and 30, 1922, Davis gave a detailed description of his house, its contents, and the arrangement of its contents.

To his great surprise, Soal learned in 1925 that Davis was still alive after all and went to visit him. A great deal of the channeled material about the house proved to be correct. But Davis and his "wife and kiddie” had not moved into the house until over a year after the relevant sitting! Davis' diary showed that during Soal’s sittings he had been seeing real estate clients. Only around the time of the sittings did Davis even inspect this house for the first time. But Davis did not move into the house until a year later. More importantly, the furnishings of the house had not been planned in advance! Yet the details channeled earlier turned out to be correct: a large mirror, lots of paintings, glorious mountain and sea scenes, very big vases with funny saucers, two brass candlesticks, and a black dickie bird. Two of the paintings were only done after the sittings! So much of the material channeled in the later sittings about the house must be ascribed to precognitive telepathy (John Heaney, 176-177).

Why is channeling not discredited in this way more often? Well, ask yourself how often you are mistakenly informed that your friend has died. Was the medium able to exploit Soal’s mistaken faith in Davis’ death as an aid in the process of reconstructing Davis’ personality and future by precognitive telepathy? Or were the medium (Blanche Cooper) and sitter (Sam Soal) duped by an impersonating spirit?

(b) Some spirit controls seem clearly fraudulent. While Richard Hodgson was still alive, he thoroughly investigated one of Leonore Piper's spirit controls named Phinuit in 1892. The Phinuit persona claimed to be the spirit of a French doctor whose full name was Jean Phinuit Scliville and who had lived in the early 1800s and had practiced medicine in London, France, and Belgium. But he was unable to speak more than a few French phrases, displayed no more knowledge of medicine than the average layman, and had never (according to medical records) attended the medical schools at which he claimed to have studied and practiced. Hodgson initially concluded that Phinuit was just a secondary personality of Mrs. Piper which either erroneously believed itself to be or falsely pretended to be the spirit of a deceased French doctor. But Hodgson later changed his mind and now concluded that some of the material produced in a trance by Mrs. Piper seemed to go beyond what might be obtained by thought transference from the sitters and thus seemed to suggest real contact with the dead. In his words, “Among these (comunicators) are more than half-a-dozen intimate friends of my own, who have produced upon me the impression...that they are the personalities I knew, with characteristic intelligence and emotion, questioning me and conversing with me under difficulties.” It seems doubtful that Hodgson would have changed his mind if he had lived to discover the Gordon Davis case.

(4) What if it can be shown that the attribution of channeled materials to discarnate friends and relatives reflects a culturally conditioned bias?
(a) Shamans understand their mediumship to put them in contact with spirits and demons as well as with deceased people. In earlier centuries Neoplatonists also practiced trance mediumship, but attributed it to the agency of gods or demons rather than to discarnate humans. Likewise, witches from the 17th and 18th centuries ascribed their channeled material to demons. Perhaps the modern attempt to identify spirit controls with deceased personalities reflects the wishful thinking of modern cultural prejudice.

(b) Or it might be demonic! Why is Leonora Piper’s spirit control (Phinuit) lying about his true identity? Why did Sam Soal’s alleged brother lie about bringing Gordon Davis’ spirit through?

(c) If you ask what sort of test might favor spirit contact over ESP and clairvoyance as an explanation of channeled material, the answer is the demonstration of a skill lacked by the medium (e. g. xenoglossy). That is, if a channeled entity can respond to questions posed to the medium in a language unknown to that medium, then mere ESP cannot adequately explain this. Research has shown that ESP does not extend to a full-blown new skill. But it must be remembered that xenoglossy is a prime criterion for demonic possession. So the possibility of an impersonating spirit must be taken into account in such cases.

This sort of discussion is rather thoroughly explored in books like David Fontana's "Is There an Afterlife? A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence."
 
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dcalling

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Hi

I wasn't sure whether to post this in advice, or theology, but as I guess I am looking for advice I went with this - apologies if it's wrong.

I have a friend who not only believes in psychics, but claims to be one. What's interesting is that there are a lot of stories, and I don't believe this is made up. And that worries me. I know that "real" psychic activity doesn't come from God.

How do you witness to this kind of person? Their spiritual experiences are as real as mine. So where someone says they have talked with dead relatives, and someone who they didn't know, but after research discovered that the person existed and that the details were right, I can't just say "that's not true".

Has anyone had any experience of this kind of thing? What's the best way to witness to someone like this, without risking a good friendship?

Thanks
I have been practicing some eastern meditation before, and the feels are real. Some people could have special powers by doing this. Eventually I realized that the power is not from my meditation (i.e. it is not like I developed the force), but from something else that have power (could be God but also could be other spirits). There are stories of people practicing those and if they are not careful, or accidentally got "disturbed", they went crazy or got really hard to cure symptoms.

When I was not a Christian, once I heard a Christian from Asia who had such powers before, and he give it all up for Christ. At the time I was wondering why he give away such powers. Later I actually heard stories that some who got powers are actually processed by ghost (or spirits), and they had many misfortunes till they got their demons casted out. In my experience I only saw how we are tempted by real things (money/power), but from the Bible we definitely know demons are real.
 
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Lucian Hodoboc

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But if you asked a psychic what is going to happen in the future, they will give vague answers, because demons don't know the future.
Then was it God who allowed the witch of Endor to summon Samuel's spirit for king Saul?
 
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fat wee robin

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I experience psychic like things. Not the dead thankfully, which I think is demonic, but knowing things. My best explanation is that it is something broken within someone. It is a deficiency that makes someone vulnerable to spiritual things and makes it difficult to live normally. It's like being in a wheelchair, it's a disadvantage until you are racing downhill. Or perhaps I just don't deal with it well.
The Holy Spirit gives us 'insight' ,or what you call 'knowing things ',such as Joseph being told (by the Spirit of God to go to Egypt instead of coming back ,to avoid Herods killing of babies .



This person may have an opening in what should be a working veil that separates them from spiritual entities. If that is broken they may experience those entities but they are not gifted against deception. Demons can appear as anything to deceive mankind.
 
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fat wee robin

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On a side note, now I'm reminded of a Christian I met who previously was big on psychic stuff, horoscopes etc... to the point he could still within 5 minutes of meeting a person, figure out their astrological sign. He viewed this talent much like the apostle Paul viewed himself previously being a Pharisee.

The only other piece of advice I would give is the approach of sharing an intellectual book or video on the subject with him. Using an academic explanation of the topic would offer him a diplomatic escape from the issue, being that it allows for having reasonable debate and alternative ideas. I would recommend looking at some the information Dr. Michael Heiser has this subject. This may be of interest or not.

http://drmsh.com/peeranormal-podcast-episode-1-introducing-the-show/
OTE="jssceckert, post: 72232550, member: 405918"]A lady in the bible predicted Sauls death. it was vague but she consulted a spirit and the spirit said he would die the next day and he did......so i gues they do knw the future somewhat...[/QUOTE]
The 'horoscopes ' in popular media are rubbish and the astronomy/astrology is rubbish. What these people write is pure fiction ,and no real Chrstian would follow it , however people in agriculture knowing the cycles of the moon ,the sun and other planets note corrélations with good and bad harvests ,weather and more . Did the 'Wise men ',not follow a Star ? Does it not say that "the heavens show the glory of God"?
I wish some christians would not lump together all things without knowing a thing about it .
Speaking to the dead ,and hearing things etc is dangerous ,and demonic ,but observing God's creation closely is Not . While predicting precisely, is dodgy ,having a sense of good or bad coming is a gift .
God gives gifts of insight to those who are truly His ,His sheep hear His voice .
 
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Hi

I wasn't sure whether to post this in advice, or theology, but as I guess I am looking for advice I went with this - apologies if it's wrong.

I have a friend who not only believes in psychics, but claims to be one. What's interesting is that there are a lot of stories, and I don't believe this is made up. And that worries me. I know that "real" psychic activity doesn't come from God.

How do you witness to this kind of person? Their spiritual experiences are as real as mine. So where someone says they have talked with dead relatives, and someone who they didn't know, but after research discovered that the person existed and that the details were right, I can't just say "that's not true".

Has anyone had any experience of this kind of thing? What's the best way to witness to someone like this, without risking a good friendship?

Thanks

You need to get him lost first. By asking him if he is a sinner.
From there use either four spiritual laws or Romans road.

To my knowledge no physic has won the lottery. Ask for the winning numbers.
 
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fat wee robin

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Hi

I'm not sure you've understood my question? Apologies if I was not clear.



He is not a Christian - hence my concern. Spiritual gifts come from the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:4). I think psychics and mediums (assuming they are genuinely communicating with spirit beings) are using the same parts of our spiritual selves to do this. The issue is the source of these messages. (cf 1 John 4:1) If it's not from the Holy Spirit, it's demonic, right? In my friends case, it cannot be the Holy Spirit if he is not a Christian, as we only receive the Holy Spirit when we are born again (Gal 3:2-5). If we are saying that someone without the Holy Spirit is able to do this, and it's okay, then we're ignoring everything else the Bible says about consulting mediums.

So, my concern is precisely that he has not received Christ as his Saviour, and is therefore opening himself up to demonic activity.


As I mentioned, I thought I had been clear. He cannot be validly exercising the spiritual gifts without the Holy Spirit.


I also didn't mention tarot cards - I'm unsure how this is relevant, maybe I don't know enough about it. Again, my question is around someone who is (or believes he is) communicating with spirits - which Biblically cannot be from God. As I understand it, this is a very dangerous thing for him to be doing.

I hope this helps clarify.
You need to be careful yourself ,as there is not a lot you can do if you have aleady spoken to him about God and the saving grace of Jesus Christ . Give him the name if this site ,and others like "desiring God", on faith and reason etc .
And pray for him and yourself . I very much like a woman whose husband died,he was 57 , and when I asked her if she believed in life after death she told me "yes my husband talked to an old friend before he died ,and he kept telling him to come quickly, as he missed him ".
Yes it is lonely down there . I had sometimes talked about Jesus to her ,but I let her go as she was 'in darkness too ,and it was a bad experience for me as I like the 'Light' .
 
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Then was it God who allowed the witch of Endor to summon Samuel's spirit for king Saul?
No. If that was so it might be said that God tolerates spiritism. It was Saul's choice to do that. God always allows us to make our own choices, good or bad, and lets us take the consequences for them. Otherwise we would be programmable robots. Actually it wasn't Samuel who came up but a demon impersonating him. The Bible is quite clear that no one comes back from the dead (excepting Jesus).
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I am no expert, but, I would bet that these "extra sensory perceptions" are of the spirit world as the "flesh" as you call it has no other "sensory Receptors".

Dealing with communication with other entities that are unseen is a very dangerous activity, no matter what the method or medium used.

These are not of the flesh. They are totally of the spirit and in the bible it is solidly stated to abstain from these activities.
Extra sensory is simply a heightened version of the regular sense, it gets so heightened that only the subconscious can pick it up so all of a sudden people just "know" something. It is important to attribute designations properly, one thing comes from the flesh, it is in opposition to God ... if this attracts demons, that's a separate matter, it is important to look at both elements as each has a different divine remedy. Effective ministry comes from understanding.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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This is easy. Tell him your thinking of a number between 1-100. See if he can get it right. If not then hes not psychic. Sounds silly but the truth is the definition of a psychic is someone who can see everything. Thus he should be able to answer you.

Outside of that psychics aren't real anyways.
 
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Lucian Hodoboc

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No. If that was so it might be said that God tolerates spiritism. It was Saul's choice to do that. God always allows us to make our own choices, good or bad, and lets us take the consequences for them. Otherwise we would be programmable robots. Actually it wasn't Samuel who came up but a demon impersonating him. The Bible is quite clear that no one comes back from the dead (excepting Jesus).
How could it have been a demon impersonating Samuel if the vision told Saul exact details about the future and demons don't know the future?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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How could it have been a demon impersonating Samuel if the vision told Saul exact details about the future and demons don't know the future?
The prophecy was close but not totally correct. That is what made it a false one. The demon said that Ahab would be killed the next day. He wasn't killed by his enemies. He committed suicide. So your "exact" details were not as exact as you think they were.
 
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DW1980

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What is your take on the bible message to try the spirit and see if the be of God? And also what if we are approached by angels.....should we dismiss them because they are considered a different entity?

Hi

By testing the spirits I think it means that we can expect to encounter spirits through the practice of the spiritual gifts. We are to test these spirits (1 John 4:1) by whether they acknowledge Jesus as Lord, and test the content of the messages against Scripture, and with the Church. 2 Cor 11:14 says, "Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light" so everything needs to be tested.

Any spirit failing these tests does need to be dismissed.

That's my understanding :)
 
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