Psalms 82- Who Was God Speaking To?

[newton3005]

In Isaiah 1:18, God allows us some flexibility. That is, He permits us to use reasoning in our understanding of Him. He seems to allow that there are Passages in the Bible which may seem ambiguous at first glance, so He lets us interpret these Passages in terms of what we know from the Bible and other sources, so long as our conclusions are in line with what God wants from us. But there is also an understanding, emphasized in Passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16-17, that the Bible is the final Word; we are to accept the Bible in terms of its principles and premises, since it is the Word of God.

Some may say that people wrote the Bible, but that’s like saying that, for instance, Lincoln’s secretary wrote the Gettysburg Address. Did Lincoln’s secretary not write what Lincoln wanted her to write? In the same sense, did not those who penned the Bible not write what God wanted them to write? Now some may say that God did not dictate to those who penned the Bible, but does the Bible not infer that God is in the hearts of those who love Him? I tell you that God dictated to the hearts and souls of those who penned the Bible.

So, at first glance, John 10:30-39 brings up an idea that we who love God are gods ourselves, albeit not as most high as He is. In John 10, Jesus says things that the Jews who listened to him pretty much find palatable at least. But when he says in Verse 30 “I and the father are one,” the Jews pick up stones to throw at Jesus in Verse 31.

When Jesus asks in Verse 32 why they want to stone him, they answer in Verse 33 that it’s because Jesus makes himself the equivalent of God. What is Jesus’ response? He says in Verses 34-36, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—AND SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

It is believed that the Verse that Jesus quotes is Psalms 82:6 in which God says “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you...” But who is God speaking to? Jesus seems to imply that God is speaking to men. But is it men that God is speaking to? In the very next Verse, Verse 7, it says “nevertheless, LIKE MEN you shall die, and fall like any prince.” The insertion “like men,” strongly implies that God is not speaking to men. So who is God speaking to?

Some context is warranted regarding Psalms 82. In verses 1-5, God severely criticizes what the Bible refers to as his “divine council.” He calls out this council for failing to act and judge in a righteous manner, so He says in Verse 7 that they “shall die, and fall like any prince.” This comes to mind Satan, who is considered a fallen angel. In that regard, was not God speaking to a divine council of angels?

Unless there’s a translation issue that muddies the waters, it seems that Jesus is equating men with the angels that God was talking to. So, it seems that Jesus extends to men what God says to His angels that they are gods as well. A question might come up as to what basis Jesus might believe that angels and men are the same? But something like this may very well be one of the things that are beyond explanation, so in showing our faith and love in God through Jesus, we can only accept what the Bible tells us. If the Bible says that to Jesus, God’s divine council is a council of men, then it is what it is. If the Bible infers that Jesus equates men with the angels, then it is what that is.

 

[Unqualified]

In Isaiah 1:18, God allows us some flexibility. That is, He permits us to use reasoning in our understanding of Him. He seems to allow that there are Passages in the Bible which may seem ambiguous at first glance, so He lets us interpret these Passages in terms of what we know from the Bible and other sources, so long as our conclusions are in line with what God wants from us. But there is also an understanding, emphasized in Passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16-17, that the Bible is the final Word; we are to accept the Bible in terms of its principles and premises, since it is the Word of God.

Some may say that people wrote the Bible, but that’s like saying that, for instance, Lincoln’s secretary wrote the Gettysburg Address. Did Lincoln’s secretary not write what Lincoln wanted her to write? In the same sense, did not those who penned the Bible not write what God wanted them to write? Now some may say that God did not dictate to those who penned the Bible, but does the Bible not infer that God is in the hearts of those who love Him? I tell you that God dictated to the hearts and souls of those who penned the Bible.

So, at first glance, John 10:30-39 brings up an idea that we who love God are gods ourselves, albeit not as most high as He is. In John 10, Jesus says things that the Jews who listened to him pretty much find palatable at least. But when he says in Verse 30 “I and the father are one,” the Jews pick up stones to throw at Jesus in Verse 31.

When Jesus asks in Verse 32 why they want to stone him, they answer in Verse 33 that it’s because Jesus makes himself the equivalent of God. What is Jesus’ response? He says in Verses 34-36, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—AND SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

It is believed that the Verse that Jesus quotes is Psalms 82:6 in which God says “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you...” But who is God speaking to? Jesus seems to imply that God is speaking to men. But is it men that God is speaking to? In the very next Verse, Verse 7, it says “nevertheless, LIKE MEN you shall die, and fall like any prince.” The insertion “like men,” strongly implies that God is not speaking to men. So who is God speaking to?

Some context is warranted regarding Psalms 82. In verses 1-5, God severely criticizes what the Bible refers to as his “divine council.” He calls out this council for failing to act and judge in a righteous manner, so He says in Verse 7 that they “shall die, and fall like any prince.” This comes to mind Satan, who is considered a fallen angel. In that regard, was not God speaking to a divine council of angels?

Unless there’s a translation issue that muddies the waters, it seems that Jesus is equating men with the angels that God was talking to. So, it seems that Jesus extends to men what God says to His angels that they are gods as well. A question might come up as to what basis Jesus might believe that angels and men are the same? But something like this may very well be one of the things that are beyond explanation, so in showing our faith and love in God through Jesus, we can only accept what the Bible tells us. If the Bible says that to Jesus, God’s divine council is a council of men, then it is what it is. If the Bible infers that Jesus equates men with the angels, then it is what that is.

its all about the judges in Israel. He called them gods, I guess because they had the power of life an death over the people. He wants them to be honest and do justice. Like deliver the poor from the strong evil man. A short chapter for them. They are only men. They will fall but like princes. They will die. Give what’s due to the calling.

 

[eleos1954]

In Isaiah 1:18, God allows us some flexibility. That is, He permits us to use reasoning in our understanding of Him. He seems to allow that there are Passages in the Bible which may seem ambiguous at first glance, so He lets us interpret these Passages in terms of what we know from the Bible and other sources, so long as our conclusions are in line with what God wants from us. But there is also an understanding, emphasized in Passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16-17, that the Bible is the final Word; we are to accept the Bible in terms of its principles and premises, since it is the Word of God.

Some may say that people wrote the Bible, but that’s like saying that, for instance, Lincoln’s secretary wrote the Gettysburg Address. Did Lincoln’s secretary not write what Lincoln wanted her to write? In the same sense, did not those who penned the Bible not write what God wanted them to write? Now some may say that God did not dictate to those who penned the Bible, but does the Bible not infer that God is in the hearts of those who love Him? I tell you that God dictated to the hearts and souls of those who penned the Bible.

So, at first glance, John 10:30-39 brings up an idea that we who love God are gods ourselves, albeit not as most high as He is. In John 10, Jesus says things that the Jews who listened to him pretty much find palatable at least. But when he says in Verse 30 “I and the father are one,” the Jews pick up stones to throw at Jesus in Verse 31.

When Jesus asks in Verse 32 why they want to stone him, they answer in Verse 33 that it’s because Jesus makes himself the equivalent of God. What is Jesus’ response? He says in Verses 34-36, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—AND SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

It is believed that the Verse that Jesus quotes is Psalms 82:6 in which God says “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you...” But who is God speaking to? Jesus seems to imply that God is speaking to men. But is it men that God is speaking to? In the very next Verse, Verse 7, it says “nevertheless, LIKE MEN you shall die, and fall like any prince.” The insertion “like men,” strongly implies that God is not speaking to men. So who is God speaking to?

Some context is warranted regarding Psalms 82. In verses 1-5, God severely criticizes what the Bible refers to as his “divine council.” He calls out this council for failing to act and judge in a righteous manner, so He says in Verse 7 that they “shall die, and fall like any prince.” This comes to mind Satan, who is considered a fallen angel. In that regard, was not God speaking to a divine council of angels?

Unless there’s a translation issue that muddies the waters, it seems that Jesus is equating men with the angels that God was talking to. So, it seems that Jesus extends to men what God says to His angels that they are gods as well. A question might come up as to what basis Jesus might believe that angels and men are the same? But something like this may very well be one of the things that are beyond explanation, so in showing our faith and love in God through Jesus, we can only accept what the Bible tells us. If the Bible says that to Jesus, God’s divine council is a council of men, then it is what it is. If the Bible infers that Jesus equates men with the angels, then it is what that is.

There is nobody divine except Jesus ... not man .... not angels.

Psalms 82:6

God originally made man to be the ruler of this planet

Jesus seems to be referring to is about judges who have the power to rule over other men in a way that God judges all humanity. In these ways, and perhaps others, man is described as a lessor god (small g) of this world. Yet we certainly aren't divine and will never ascend to godlike status.

We seek the council of the Lord ..... man's council is rubbish .... and to think anything different is to usurp the divinity of Jesus .... which is
the same thing put forth by satan .... Ie you will be like God (big G) ..... both angels and man are created beings ..... subject to the creator .... Jesus.

 

[Blade]

Satan is called the "god" of this world. So if GOD gave us all this before we gave handed it over because of a lie were we then called gods of this world? Oh yes we know those that have used this as "little gods" and its .. haha this will be good.. its correct. Yet there is NO other GOD but Him.. Why does the great I am use the word god?

 

[The Righterzpen]

@newton3005 - So is your question: What does it mean when God states to men "You are as gods." ?

Your question seems a little muddled between the status of men before God, as opposed to the status of angels. Redeemed humans rank above angels; because we are created in the image of God and they are not. (1 Corinthians 6:3)

 

[newton3005]

@newton3005 - So is your question: What does it mean when God states to men "You are as gods." ?

Your question seems a little muddled between the status of men before God, as opposed to the status of angels. Redeemed humans rank above angels; because we are created in the image of God and they are not. (1 Corinthians 6:3)

Redeemed humans are no longer humans when they're in God's Kingdom. So, that still leaves the question of who was God speaking to in Psalms 82. Some say God was speaking to judges in Israel. Is there a cross-reference in the Bible that says that? It certainly doesn't say that in Psalms 82.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Redeemed humans are no longer humans when they're in God's Kingdom. So, that still leaves the question of who was God speaking to in Psalms 82. Some say God was speaking to judges in Israel. Is there a cross-reference in the Bible that says that? It certainly doesn't say that in Psalms 82.

Have you ever used a resource like Blue Letter Bible? There are several on-line concordances that have the Greek and Hebrew and that you can look up words or phrases through.

The phrase "you are gods" is also in:
Isaiah 41:23 (Similar context to Psalm 82.)
Isaiah 42:17 (Context here = people speaking of their idols - calling the idols "gods")
Hosea 14:3 (Context is also in relation to idols.)
John 10:34 (Similar context to psalm 82.)

Blue Letter Bible also has Strong's numbers that you can go back and take a look at the components of the add ons that make up the Hebrew words used. Also, pay very close attention to how things are worded.

Psalm 82:6
"I have said you are gods; and the (whole of you) are children of the most high."

Note the difference here. "you are gods"... AND "the (whole of) - translated "all of you in english" are children of the most high. "all of you" though is different than "the (whole of)". Or those who are "made whole". Not all that are called "gods" are those who are made whole. The redeemed are those who are made whole. Only they are called "children of the most high".

Compare this to Isaiah 41:23; which is the same allegation in Psalm 82. The difference is being noted between those who are recipients of God's Word as opposed to those who obey God's Word. Now compare this to John 10:34. Jesus says "... called them gods whom the word of God came to..." Which again the context of John, like Psalm 82 and Isaiah 41 is addressing the disobedient.

Verse 7 of Psalm 82 could take on many flavors. The word "men" (die like men) is a derivative of where Adam was named "Adam". It comes from a root "dyed red", "red" or "ruddy". Which is probably a reference to "the life is in the blood". God "breathed into Adam and he became a living soul". Thus the word "man", "men", "mankind" comes from the same root as the word "Adam". Thus "you shall die as men" could also be extrapolated as "you shall die as Adam". Adam who'd received the word of God yet didn't obey. Which also note there can be a comparison made between Adam and Abel. Abel is the first righteous one mentioned (Matthew 23:35) Thus we can conclude by this that it's not likely Adam was elect. So "you shall die like men" is a reference to dying in a state of disobedience.

Now, this has nothing to do with angels. We know this because there's no redemption plan for angels. (Hebrews 2:6) Which this jives with Adam created in the image of God. Angels were not created in the image of God. Humanity ranks above angels. (1 Corinthians 6:3) This is why death didn't enter the realm of carbon based life until Adam transgressed.

Now redeemed humans when they die; the separation of soul from body, does not make them the same entities as "angels". A "disembodied saint" is not the same thing as a "non-carbon based angel".

Yet it is confusing because the word "angel" is used to describe both; as well as being used to describe living human beings. The translation though, in regards to "living human being" is "messenger". I.E. David sent a messenger to the king of Assyria. Contextually we know that "messenger" was a living human being. So we have "non carbon based - messengers", "disembodied saint - messengers" and "living human messengers". All of these in the Hebrew is the word "angolos". (English translation "angel".) But the word "angel" isn't used solely for one type of entity.

So "you are gods" is addressing living human recipients of the Word of God. It's not addressing disembodied saints or "non carbon based angels".

 

[eleos1954]

In Isaiah 1:18, God allows us some flexibility. That is, He permits us to use reasoning in our understanding of Him. He seems to allow that there are Passages in the Bible which may seem ambiguous at first glance, so He lets us interpret these Passages in terms of what we know from the Bible and other sources, so long as our conclusions are in line with what God wants from us. But there is also an understanding, emphasized in Passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16-17, that the Bible is the final Word; we are to accept the Bible in terms of its principles and premises, since it is the Word of God.

Some may say that people wrote the Bible, but that’s like saying that, for instance, Lincoln’s secretary wrote the Gettysburg Address. Did Lincoln’s secretary not write what Lincoln wanted her to write? In the same sense, did not those who penned the Bible not write what God wanted them to write? Now some may say that God did not dictate to those who penned the Bible, but does the Bible not infer that God is in the hearts of those who love Him? I tell you that God dictated to the hearts and souls of those who penned the Bible.

So, at first glance, John 10:30-39 brings up an idea that we who love God are gods ourselves, albeit not as most high as He is. In John 10, Jesus says things that the Jews who listened to him pretty much find palatable at least. But when he says in Verse 30 “I and the father are one,” the Jews pick up stones to throw at Jesus in Verse 31.

When Jesus asks in Verse 32 why they want to stone him, they answer in Verse 33 that it’s because Jesus makes himself the equivalent of God. What is Jesus’ response? He says in Verses 34-36, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—AND SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

It is believed that the Verse that Jesus quotes is Psalms 82:6 in which God says “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you...” But who is God speaking to? Jesus seems to imply that God is speaking to men. But is it men that God is speaking to? In the very next Verse, Verse 7, it says “nevertheless, LIKE MEN you shall die, and fall like any prince.” The insertion “like men,” strongly implies that God is not speaking to men. So who is God speaking to?

Some context is warranted regarding Psalms 82. In verses 1-5, God severely criticizes what the Bible refers to as his “divine council.” He calls out this council for failing to act and judge in a righteous manner, so He says in Verse 7 that they “shall die, and fall like any prince.” This comes to mind Satan, who is considered a fallen angel. In that regard, was not God speaking to a divine council of angels?

Unless there’s a translation issue that muddies the waters, it seems that Jesus is equating men with the angels that God was talking to. So, it seems that Jesus extends to men what God says to His angels that they are gods as well. A question might come up as to what basis Jesus might believe that angels and men are the same? But something like this may very well be one of the things that are beyond explanation, so in showing our faith and love in God through Jesus, we can only accept what the Bible tells us. If the Bible says that to Jesus, God’s divine council is a council of men, then it is what it is. If the Bible infers that Jesus equates men with the angels, then it is what that is.

Angels and man are created beings .... not "gods" of any kind (that's serpent talk) ..... angels will remain angels and humans will remain human .... both (except for the fallen) seek the council of God and serve Him .... God is all knowing .... He imparts HIS wisdom to His creation ... wisdom comes from Him alone.