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Prove that love exist

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by salt-n-light, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. salt-n-light

    salt-n-light Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know that everyone here have an array of belief levels and how they perceive things. So I wanted to know, based on your methods of reasoning, can you prove that love exist? How would you access it, if you would at all?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  2. Messerve

    Messerve Well-Known Member

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    I mean... What kind of proof are you looking for? Like evidence that something kind someone did for someone else was done with zero selfish motives and only pure love?

    Trying to prove love would require knowing the hearts of others, which we can never be 100% certain about. And if I know I have real love in my heart, I could never prove it because you can't see my heart or judge it with 100% confidence.

    So, I guess, no. Love cannot be proven. But I believe it exists in faith.
     
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. - Luke 22:69

    If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

    Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

    And there are three varieties...

    Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2.
    Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
    Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

    God can change energy to matter... E/c2 (energy)= m (matter)
    God can change matter to energy... m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)

    All to his will and liking! I can prove the love of spiritual variety in that it exists with young animals and humans. A kitten, puppy, and young child for example. It is also a bad thing in my mind when the spirituality dissipates away.
     
  4. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    It depends on what one means by love existing.

    To me, love is a label we place on a category of actions and emotions. If a person's behavior falls within the parameters we set for this category, we say that he/she loves. In part, we can identify this as a human construct since few humans would agree in all circumstances that an action is loving or not. What makes the idea tenable is that for most members of the human race the things we call love overlap.

    If there were no sapient/sentient beings, there would be no love. It does not exist beyond the minds of sentient beings.

    This is the way with labels humans make. Morality doesn't exist if one never interacts with another being. It is the interaction between people that defines moral behavior. It, too, is a mental construct. No sentient beings, no moral/immoral behavior.

    To push it some more, "flerg" is meaningless (at least in English). But if I say that flerg comprises the actions {x1, x2, x3, ...} then flerg has meaning. And it would exist as a human construct even if no one had thought of it before.
     
  5. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    A flerging good post. :)
     
  6. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    Thank you, kind ... er, flerg ... sir.
     
  7. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    Define love.
     
  8. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    English is at a huge disadvantage on this topic because, by itself, it has no way to distinguish between the various forms of love. There is the love found in romance, the love found within families, the love between friends and the love commonly referred to as Agape which Jesus is believed to reference in His teachings.

    I suspect your question refers to Agape love. That is a love which is largely, if not completely, expressed by one's behavior. It is a love of humanity which is expressed by the way an individual treats everyone regardless of their status in life, race, sex, sexual expression, or any of the hundreds of ways we use as we create 'us' and 'them' pairings.

    And since it is based on behavior..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...proof of its existence should be obvious by simply watching how others behave. Those people who divide others into favored and unfavored groups don't have it. Those who are constantly reaching back to lift anyone and everyone up and puts those people ahead of them do have it.

    IMMHO, expressing Agape love is the very core of being a Follower of Jesus. A Follower's behavior constantly shows the use of Agape love. Those who are do not show that behavior are not a Follower despite any and all assertions otherwise.

    That is my opinion. The way Jesus put it was like this:

    John 14:23-24

    "Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

    The proof is the behavior of an individual as they interact with everyone on the planet, either as individuals or en-mass. We see the proof every time someone holds the door open for a stranger, when someone stops to aid a stranger, or when someone tries to stop a government from separating families over border issues.

    There are as many examples as there are interactions between human beings. Every interaction provides the opportunity to express Agape love or reject it.
     
  9. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Love suffers long and is kind;" > this is in 1 Corinthians 13:4. This is not a definition, but it tells us about love. Love can suffer and keep on being kind, at the same time. And there is more about this, in 1 Corinthians chapter 13.
     
  10. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Isn't 'agape' just the equivalent of English's 'altruism' dressed up in Greek clothing to make it sound like something (almost) exclusive to Christianity?

    From Wikipedia;
    Altruism is the principle and moral practice of concern for happiness of other human beings and/or animals, resulting in a quality of life both material and spiritual. It is a traditional virtue in many cultures and a core aspect of various religious traditions and secular worldviews, though the concept of "others" toward whom concern should be directed can vary among cultures and religions. In an extreme case, altruism may become a synonym of selflessness which is the opposite of selfishness.

    OB
     
  11. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I used the word Agape because of its relationship to teachings of Jesus because, after all, this is a predominately Christian forum. I think that the way Jesus taught it, it would qualify as selflessness.

    As your definition of Altruism notes "others" toward whom concern should be directed can vary among cultures and religions. I don't see in Jesus' teachings where there are exceptions to the call for loving others. It does appear that He included everyone even one's 'enemy'.
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Love is an act of the will. It is choosing to act for the greatest benefit of everyone else we come into contact with, no matter who they are, and how they behave or act toward us. Therefore love is not some type of emotional feeling or some form of abstract thing. We may be in a position where we do not like a person and have strong negative emotions about that person, yet we still can choose to act in the best interests of that person.

    The Scripture says that God is angry with the wicked every day, and so if He acted on His emotion toward the wicked, they would all be left to perish. But, in sending His Son to die on the cross and shed His blood as the Sacrifice for sin, and extending the invitation for the wicked to come to Christ to obtain mercy and grace, He is, in a sense, acting in love, contrary to His emotion of anger toward the wicked.
     
  13. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    So you can't answer my question.
     
  14. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    If that's true, then demonstrating that a person, just a single person, acts like this just once is enough to prove conclusively that love exists, and thus satisfies the question asked by the Opening Post.
     
  15. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    A loving person is characterised by the continued acts of love in all circumstances. For this to happen, the person has to have a heart of love. One isolated act does not prove anything, because the act could be motivated by something that is not true heart-felt love.
     
  16. christine40

    christine40 Well-Known Member

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  17. salt-n-light

    salt-n-light Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, it was more meant for those who were not of the Christian faith, since the often argument is that the way we process events are unscientific and illogical. Hence the question, and how they would go about addressing a term that isn't made to be scientific. I thought this was the appropriate thread to post, but I saw quickly that it made have not been hence why I post in the appropriate thread, i think. However I do see dialogue happening, so I'll just leave it on here as well. If its unfruitful then the moderators are free to remove it.
     
  18. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Did we just move into the Twilight Zone while no one was looking??? :swoon:
    OB
     
  19. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    This seems to be a bit circular. You say that love is shown by being loving. That's like saying the quality of schleem is shown by being schleemy.
     
  20. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God has proven that love exists, by sending His own Son Jesus to reach us and share with us and suffer and die on the cross in order to save us from our sins. And He can prove His love for us, by changing us to be and to love like Jesus >

    "And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

    So, we can prove love exists, by living His love in us . . . for any and all people. Or else, we will be impersonal and mainly concerned about our own selves and our own dictating so we can't experience love.

    God brings us to live in His love, by changing our nature so we can love. He changes us into His family caring and sharing with Him and one another >

    "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

    "Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

    So, I guess a definition of love could be God is love who is changing us into how He is caring and sharing in family tender affection, with His almighty power to make us also immune to any and all sorts of evil and cruel and dominating feelings and emotions and drives for foolish pleasures and selfish ways of reacting to not getting what we demand and expect. And by doing this in us, God is proving Himself in His love.
     
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