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Protestants Dominating Christian Fiction

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Luckster, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    And EasyG,

    This is off-topic completely, but I just have to say regarding Iron Man, I love Don Cheadle as an actor (first started loving his work in Hotel Rwanda!), but he's not right for Rhodes. I really preferred Terrence Howard in that part.

    Just had to say that LOL^_^:cool:
     
  2. gracefullamb

    gracefullamb Junior Member

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    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I'm still shocked at how they had to slow down his films at certain points because he moved too fast to catch it..but indeed, he was a rarity. I was never certain of the religious beliefs he held to - but he had many righteous principles he lived by and things he shared were universal in application. There was a documentary I saw of him during my trip to Panama. Sad I didn't catch the name of it, although there are other excellent ones that did a good job trying to catch something of the life he lived...
    "The Jackyl" is indeed underrated - and Portier is truly a role model in so many ways for actors....as he was the one who inspired Denzel Washington and others to go into acting. The class he walks in is priceless...from "Guess WHo's Coming to Dinner" to so many others.
    Didn't know they were making a third one - but here we go :) :thumbsup: I don't think he'll do a bad job at all - and the Mandarin is one of those roles where you really have to capture it well.
     
  4. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I'm a bit torn on that one - as I think both are excellent actors - but I'm very much for consistency. If you choose one actor for a movie, it's hard to make follow ups with someone different playing it and expect people to adjust.
     
  5. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    If I may say..

    Having something be historical, to be clear, isn't necessarily something that can be divorced from a "White Savior" narrative - as many films are like that. What others often note is that rarely will Hollywood choose with equal persistence films about situations of adoption/intervention into bad situations from the perspective of minorities being those who actively go in and save things.

    I think Dangerous Minds is an excellent read and it's one of my favorite movies (Michelle Phiefer at her best - and the famous "Gangstas Paradise" song made by Coolio to go with the movie will always serve as a means of driving home the point of how bad the school was and the significance of what she did:) There've been plenty of situations like that in many public school systems - and I'm thankful for others who are simply good teachers doing what they can.

    One of my spiritual mothers had that, as a white elementary school teacher having a predominately black class that had a lot of issues - at a time when there was a lot of discrimination against blacks...and she even got bullied in Highschool when it came to protesting in the Civil Rights era - but she loved people and her kids will always remember her for her intervention. She also did the same in working at the same facility for AT-Risk kids/youths - helping black girls who connected with her more than others.

    If they did a film on her life, I'd see it in a heartbeat ^_^ And that goes for all others I've seen with similar content :) Nonetheless, where I'd have some concerns is how Hollywood has no problem coming across such stories - and yet they only do so from one way predominately. Rarely will you hear of Native American - or Asian, Hispanic or Black/Aboriginal teachers (or social workers) - going into bad schools of predominately white communities and saving the lives of troubled white teens....and yet it is not as if such has happened.

    Rarely will you see true life films made in HollyWood about bad kids who were trained up how to act right by non-whites . And on the issue, concerning why it's an issue, it doesn't seem to be the case that many whites are cool with blacks adopting/helping their camp---as it gives the impression that what's underlying in thought is "I'm here to help you.....but never do I wish it to be known that you can help me--and have."

    Even with the President---agree with him or not---it's interesting to see how many whites have made it out that Obama (as a Bi-Racial) would not have made it without their resources/knowledge..as if blacks did only contributed a little to his strengths/abilties....almost as if when he came to power, there was a "Paternalism" complex coming into place...and that is something that influences many. Have you ever heard of the movie The Blind Side ?



    [​IMG]

    Based on a true story, it concerns a young black male who is without a family and gets picked up on the side of the road by an upper-class white family...taking him in/giving him an education and helping him out to become a professional football player. Seeing how the mother's background is a bit racist on her side of town, its remarkable to see how she went all out to make certain the man knew he was family.

    More factors besides that...but that's the "Sparknotes" version. Again, the entire story is actually a true story....and I loved it alot. Baltimore Ravens offensive lineman Michael Oher was a high school legend, college star and a 2009 No. 1 draft pick. But his life would never have played out that way had not one special family taken him under their wing. But as a Black Hispanic, at times, one couldn't help but feel like it was another Hollywood film that seemed to not show the examples of where blacks and other minorities have done the same.

    And most of the examples I've seen in the media of blacks rescuing whites have never seemed to be good---most of which are comedies......lilke "Me, Myself and Irene" with Jim Carey or another with Steve Martin where he didn't realize he was in a black family.

    The only one I know of is called "The Secret Life of Bees" with Queen Latifah.....

    It does seem that the movie "The Blindside" does indeed bring out questions such as "Wouldn't it be refreshing to see a black family take in a downtrodden white boy?" or "What role do whites play in the progress of blacks...and to what extent is it appropiate?"....as many have indeed saved been a blessing to countless blacks adopted/given a chance...

    It is indeed a trip to see the issue in action....especially as it relates to images seen in the media of how it always seems to be the whites rescuing the blacks from certain death.

    Again, "The Blind Side" I thought was an EXCELLENT film---As it greatly got the point across that what's happening within the Black Community is not something that others can say is just "Our problem"--and growing up fatherless myself but later going to a multi-cultural church, I could definately relate since I've had white friends/father figures who've adopted me and helped to raise me.............and we're all in this together. For more info, wrote about it on my blog in the article known as "Fatherless: Who’s Your Daddy (or more specifically, whose responibility is it to be your daddy?!!)" ( )---and also over at one of my dear brothers in the Lord's site...as seen in "The Black Woman: Backbone of the African American Family?" ( )... See More

    Nonetheless, I couldn't help but think of how it would be if a film came out showing a privelaged black family rescuing a white baby---or a black family in the working poor/middle class rescuing a white baby that was going to be aborted by a middle/upper class white family (as they deal with abortions as well and can often cover it up). Most likely, people would then have a bit of a double-standard...

    My ex-girlfriend actually brought up the issue as to how she was a bit bothered with how it seems the media often portrays blacks as needing the help of whites all the time as if we're helpless....but the moment we try to help in reverse, many may get bothered...or even MAD..almost as if there's a hidden social order that must be kept. W.E.B. Dubious called it the double Consciousness which is seeing ourselves through the eyes of others whether good or bad. And in so doing we conform or transform to meet that criterion.... See More

    Going through African-American Literature class years ago, I remember reading a novel by W.E.B Debois called "The Souls of Black Folks" that addressed the reality of how there are 2 Americans and that Blacks are caught in between living in 2 worlds.....while also living life within their world & knowing that what mattered was doing their own thang. That's one of the reasons why I SO loved the New Negro Movement ( )/Harlem Renaissance ( )--as they actively sought to challenge white paternalism/ stereotypes and rejected imitating the styles of Europeans and white Americans, rather instead celebrating black dignity and creativity as they sought to assert their freedom to express themselves on their own terms......and did not go easily with the mindset that they needed white help to be successful----counter to what's often seen in many portrayals today. For some excellent books on the issue:

     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  6. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Understood.


    Will have to investigate that book :)- as I've recently been reading on the very issue of how the Orient was repeatedly demonized during the era of Hellenization - and others have been rediscovering how uch of the characterizations were far from accurate. Cool titles your grandfather gave for himself/family ^_^ It'd be similar to me giving myself the title of "Barbarian" and having others give strange looks in the assumption it means "unintelligent/uncivilized" - despite the fact that it was a term meant to designate location and plenty of great minds who contributed to the world were Barbarian.

    For Romans considered anyone living outside the Empire a barbarian! The term held no more significance than today's term for non-citizens: alien. The Romans considered anyone barbaric who hailed from what they considered an inferior culture. Romans looked down on any foreigner. J.V.P. Balsdon writes:​
    Whatever Tacitus might choose to write in his Germania in praise of the great blonde-haired palefaces beyond the Rhine, they were men who wilted in normal Mediterranean conditions, unable to face the sun, drinking too much and going flabby. Orientals were softies (as, within the empire, were Greeks). Foreigners tended to be governed by kings, and a Roman senator, a vir classimus, betrayed his Roman dignity if he did not address a king as his inferior....
    To see the ways that the Barbarians encountered Christianity is fascinating - and the same goes for the Oriental culture which influenced things in a lot of good ways.
    Can definately understand/relate. I just got a Kindle for my Christmas gift and it's STILL way too much to handle...
     
  7. gracefullamb

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    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  8. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    "Bad" in the sense of how the students were neglected and she had to essentially rescue them from being abandoned. A lot of teachers with similar situations have noted such when schools claim to be good and yet there are students who get left out for a myriad of reasons and no one seems willing to do what it takes to help them succeed because it's too difficult in their estimation.
     
  9. MKJ

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    It's actually pretty common to have Asians portray Native Americans in films, when they need a lot of people, because it can be hard to find a lot of native actors. Or even Caucasians with the right sort of complexions.

    I generally feel that if I believe the person is who they are supposed to be, I am ok with a person of a different ethnicity playing a role. And that goes in any direction. I think it can be a pretty exciting thing for an actor to do as well.

    Peter Sellers in The Party is another example of a person playing another ethnicity that was pretty successful. There are some terrible examples in some of the spagetti westerns of Italians playing Native Americans or Mexicans - totally silly and unbelievable.

    I do think though that one has to be careful about equating ethnicity with race. THe former is something real, while the latter is essentially a socio-cultural phenomena which overlaps with ethnicity. As such it has a certian reality, but it is really a psychological phenemena and if you try and treat it as if it exists objectively you will go astray. It's easy to take it out of context and end up with pretty ridiculous anachronisms if you take 21st century American ideas about race and try to apply them to other places and times.
     
  10. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    I love that quote in Ed Wood where Johnny Depp (Ed) runs into Vincent D'Onofrio (Orson Welles) at a nearby bar as he is dressed in drag in frustration about Plan 9 From Outer Space not going so well...

    Edward D. Wood, Jr.: Do you know that I've even had producers re-cut my movies?
    Orson Welles: I hate when that happens.
    Edward D. Wood, Jr.: And they always want to cast their buddies. It doesn't even matter if they're right for the part.
    Orson Welles: Tell me about it. I'm supposed to do a thriller for Universal. They want to cast Charlton Heston as a Mexican.
    ^_^
    Ed Wood Jr Meets Orson Welles - YouTube
     
  11. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I thought it was more so Hispanics whom they often found for Native American films - and at other times, they did have a lot of good Native American actors. Wes Studi is one of my favorites

    But I can definately see how they choose Asians to play Native Americans of certain types - especially seeing how similar certain tribes have been to other Asian groups in facial features (especially with those further up North and amongst the Eskimo/Inuit groups who others feel came from Asia originally after crossing over the Bering Strait). Native Americans came from Siberia true. And Siberians are Asian.

    Of course, some Mexicans and South Americans I have seen look like they could have some Asian in them. And keep in mind that many Mexicans South Americans are of Native American/Indian descent relation. This is true within my own family - as we have many with dark tone and yet Asian eyes (and my great grandfather on my mothers' father side was Chinese - and I was tripped out when seeing pictures of family members who looked either like light-skinned or black Asians :) ) With Indigenious peoples/First Nations people of the Americas, something others have also brought up is the fact that you could've easily had sea travel occur that would've given the people of Asia access to South America/Central and other places. More was shared elsewhere on the issue when discussing the potential location of the Garden of Eden in Asia - as shared here:

    History is a trip, IMHO ^_^

    Can definately relate - as I've been amazed seeing some actors play parts and would've sworn they were actually from the culture they portrayed - only to be surprised due to how well they studied the role/part, in addition to things like make-up and dress being added. For many actors, it's about the thrill of acting...but sadly, some roles can never be accepted universally without a lot of complaints.

    I don't think, in example, people would take too kindly a light-skinned black person playing the role of George Washington in a biography of the Founding Fathers - and the same goes for other groups, like having an Aboriginal play the role of someone like a black slave. ..although if they pulled it off, it'd truly be amazing/a breakthrough in establishing the principle that it's not primarily about ethnicity as much as it is about the heart. Obviously, if you have others from a culture you're presenting who are good actors, by all means use them and don't go out of the way to find others not from that culture when people within it could be given a chance - but there's nothing wrong with going against the norm.
    Which Westerns did you have in mind specifically?
    I agree - as we're all the same race (Human) and it's something I've often taken issue with. What we have are ethnicities within the same race (and within those differing ethnicities, sub-groups of ethnic make up ..both new and old ).
    A lot of times, what happens is that people isolate things from the 21st century and ignore seeing where it was long present for centuries before - as early as the 15th century.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  12. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I am glad that there have been attempts to show portrayals of Native Americans with dark/African features - as it concerns historical consistency. ..for many times, people seem unaware of how other Native American groups look. As shared before, for myself, although my roots from my mother connect me with Afro-Hispanic and West Indian culture, my grandmother from my biological father's side was strog BlackFoot Indian. It's something I've often had a lot of battles with in explaining to others since they'd look at me and never think I had that in my blood and loved that culture...or that it's possible to have mixture from mutliple cultures into one person/group - just like it was for the Black Seminoles.

    On that note, it is amazing to see how many blacks have often had a lot of sharp battles with Indigenious groups when it comes to identity, as many have said blacks weren't "Indian" enough while other Indigenious groups who accepted blacks that were mixed were deemed as harming the tribe/limiting authenticity. First Nations Groups/Native Americans have the concept of others being adopted into tribes/being considered to be fully amongst the people...although even this is something that does not always play out without flaw since many in differing tribes often had issue with others due to their ancestry from others outside the tribe...whereas others had no issue acknowledging where one could be BlackFoot and yet have other blood in them.


    One of the best reads I was able to check out on the issue years ago is entitled "Black Indians" by William Lorenz Katz ----and for more info, one can go online/investigate an article under the name of "William Loren Katz | Black Indians. Black West." () and "Black Indians by William Loren Katz" () The book itself goes into great depth discussing the issues of what went down for those who were products of mixed marriages/alliances between American Indians and Blacks.....and it also talked on why it seemed that blacks and Native Americans often were quick to form alliances more in ways that amazed the Europeans coming to conquer them...even though there were many battles between the groups even after intermixing (more shared here at "Indivisible: African Native American Lives in the Americas" ( ) ).
     
  13. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    That's hilarious, Bruh :)
     
  14. Thekla

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    "Touch of Evil" (1958), dir. Welles - Heston played Mike Vargas :thumbsup:
     
  15. Fotina

    Fotina Regular Member

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    —What do you prefer to read?
    —You know, I used to be a devourer of books. I would read my favorite Dostoevsky novels twice over each year. I loved the great novels of Leo Tolstoy. Also the Western classics. And of course, Pushkin… But something happened to me thirty years ago and I nearly stopped reading those works, because I discovered a whole continent of another kind of literature—St. John Climacus, St. Isaac the Syrian, St. John Chrysostom, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, St. Theophan the Recluse. Their works are so grandiose that after becoming acquainted with them is not so easy to go back to reading bestsellers.
    Archimandrite Tikhon (Shevkunov), author of Everyday Saints.
     
  16. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    Yep!

     
  17. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    :thumbsup:
     
  18. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    pretty awesome
     
  19. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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