Protestants Dominating Christian Fiction

Touma

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You're absolutely right, gurney. But, then my question would be, why aren't we seeing more Orthodox, or Catholic, books in major retailers? Why are the Protestants so much aggressive than we are?


Probably because Protestantism has been the major Christian force in America. Also, most Christian book stores are evangelical, so they won't have anything outside of the books you mentioned. On occasion, they will have some Catholic books, or have an intro guide to Orthodoxy. I think some of these people see RCC and EO as the same, and really see it as heretical because of some of the theology differences. So, really, why would they have these books? I am sure they don't have Mormon of JW books either.
 
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MKJ

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MKJ, try John White's "Archives of Anthropos" (but stay awaaaaay from the last (sixth) book which has his name on it but he didn't actually really write). I just reread the first published one (#3 in the chronological order) and loved it. A great adventure story, a really neat universe, quite good theology (despite being written by a pentecostal) and bilingual bonus everywhere since he happily appropriated greek and hebrew words with significant meanings for his characters names, place names etc etc. They're derivative of Narnia and he actually admits that at the end of the last book he wrote - his kids asked him for 'Narnia stories' and he started off trying to write those but ended up with his own universe.

Thanks, I'll have a look!
 
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Gxg (G²)

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It is a shame - and reflects a massive shift in publishing, bookselling, and reading/purchasing patterns especially over the past 30 years or so.

Profits in the book industry - both publishing and selling - have historically been slim. This was offset by a sense of purpose; no-one in the industry expected to 'get rich'. One could make a living, but the real goal was "community service" - to provide something of value.

With the introduction of chains and superstores, expectations for increasing profits led to shifts in ordering and stock selection, and responsive shifts in publishing. Large orders led to a demand for increased discounts for the chains (and a huge fight led by the ABA surfaced between indys, who were not getting the preferential discounts, and the chains).

Changes in Tax law exacerbated the problem; mid-list and back-list titles became taxable inventory, leading publishers to narrow their print runs (making each book more expensive to produce) and destroy some of the remaining inventory end-of-year. Thus, publishing and bookselling became short-term oriented; mid and back list titles went out of print, with new titles the focus, but with a shelf-life of 4-6 months. New titles move more rapidly into mid-list and obsolescence.

Imo, the quality of the books published has suffered - quickly written, low-content books have begun to dominate.

When Christian publishing became "hot" in the 90s, Ingram (the major book distributor, a crucial resource for independent booksellers) purchased Spring Arbor, a Christian book distributor. Distributors give about a 30% discount to bookstores, and demand a 50% discount from publishers. Thus the smallest presses can ill afford to make many titles, if any, available for purchase through a distributor. This again means that the least challenging titles receive the most attention, and are typically what you'll find on the shelf at most bookstores.

Perhaps I may be off on this, but what about making reading material available online for free - in order to ensure that there's more exposure and accessibility...and that others don't get the impression that good reading is solely about profit? Perhaps those with excellent ideas within Orthodoxy for reading should make their material available in a format such as a series of YouTube videos (as others have done).

Chris Anderson, author of the book "Free", produced a lot of brilliant concepts on the issue of how material that is made freely available is not only on the rise - but it is also the way the future is going and one of the ways to open the door for a lot of economic opportunities and venture into markets that are not dominated by many places.


Others may not prefer to go to the bookstores for materials on Orthodoxy because of how much it is dominanted by the Protestant world and so much for profit - but why not be creative/innovative in finding new niches and ways of getting viewpoints out there?

We already have it to be the case where Orthodox individuals have been involved prominently in the world of media/impacting - as is the case with the author of the film "Brave" being Armenian Orthodox (more here and here) and seeking to bring some historical dynamics to the story industry (since queens often ruled in place of their husbands in ancient kingdoms and kept things in order). And yet she was able to do that because she found another way to share concepts that perhaps would not have been considered in other places.
 
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Luckster

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Probably because Protestantism has been the major Christian force in America. Also, most Christian book stores are evangelical, so they won't have anything outside of the books you mentioned. On occasion, they will have some Catholic books, or have an intro guide to Orthodoxy. I think some of these people see RCC and EO as the same, and really see it as heretical because of some of the theology differences. So, really, why would they have these books? I am sure they don't have Mormon of JW books either.
Very true. You're absolutely right.

I, personally, am already writing something of the sort (probably won't be done for several years, but hey, it's a start!). We don't need to complain about the plethora of Amish/'Christian' romance/etc. stories that have flooded the market. We need to write good, Orthodox novels that people will enjoy despite of, or because of, their Orthodox roots!
Very sound advice. It's important that any Orthodox fiction should be 'American' in nature. It shouldn't feature Greeks, Russians or Arabs. The key should be to appeal to the West without diluting the message.
 
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127.0.0.1

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You're absolutely right, gurney. But, then my question would be, why aren't we seeing more Orthodox, or Catholic, books in major retailers? Why are the Protestants so much aggressive than we are?

Books like those are for people who want to make money. One groups cares more about Christianity as a marketing business more than the other.

It's like when bands realize their music sucks so they claim they're, "Christian" because there's a certain crowd that will listen to anything with that "Christian" label on it since if gives them an excuse to enjoy something that's close to its secular counterpart.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Books like those are for people who want to make money. One groups cares more about Christianity as a marketing business more than the other.

It's like when bands realize their music sucks so they claim they're, "Christian" because there's a certain crowd that will listen to anything with that "Christian" label on it since if gives them an excuse to enjoy something that's close to its secular counterpart.

there is probably a good amount of truth here. because I have seen some of those Christian bands live, and while many have Christian lyrics and images, what they do is anything but Christian oftentimes.
 
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127.0.0.1

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there is probably a good amount of truth here. because I have seen some of those Christian bands live, and while many have Christian lyrics and images, what they do is anything but Christian oftentimes.
It's like, "Christian" is the name of the record-company that'll take any band the other record-companies didn't want.
And for the contemporary "Christian" music audience, it seems many of them are fans of the various genera that one finds in music today, but they take issue with the secular nature of much of it, that "Christian" record-label that'll take anything, is like an excuse for them to enjoy the kinds of music they feel they can't listen to when it is produced in the secular sphere.

Getting back to the books, it's really just a natural result that Protestant books would storm the shelves. The standards within the Protestant world for who counts, or what one must do to count as an authority are virtually nill; since they believe that all are saints, therefore everyone is one an authority at the same level and one can pick and choose among any Protestant whom they choose to focus on.

Because anyone can be taken as an authority, everyone does try make themselves into an authority. Because there's no litmus test in Protestant spheres, one's qualification can be little more than being able to charm middle-aged Protestant women.

In fact, when you look through a lot of those self-help books, what kind of message does one find? Does one find a message of Christianity, or one of moral code?
The fastest way to be seen as some kind of Christian icon to be emulated in Protestant spheres is to simply write a book which condemns whatever group it is popular to condemn at the time. People in Protestantism are already in a religion which grants that everyone has the possibility of being an authority, therefore pick and choose any authority you want. Consequently, individuals will use the Protestant ideology of following their Bible & their Conscience, which amounts to nothing more than following one's Conscience, because that is what is reading and interpreting the Bible for them.

The ultimate effect is that Protestant readers enter into a "Christian" bookshop with the intention of finding books by "Christian" authors who agree with them; this allows them to lend greater credibility to their view, because it is shared. Very rarely would they enter into such a shop to challenge themselves with books that argue for view opposed to their own, unless their own views are ambiguous enough that they suppose any view could be right.

Couple this with the fact that, there really isn't much to say in Protestantism. You joined the 700 club, sometimes you're baptized, and now you're "saved", and nothing at all to do with your own deeds.
So what's left? Except to await the Second Coming, or to talk about moral issues.

So Protestant books are not written to aid in an exploration of Christianity. Rather, they are written for niche audiences.

A book on traditional marriage for teens / young adults which argues that marriage must be done according to certain rules and then it's just a given that you'll be happy (all that conflict management and interpersonal blah, blah is just a conspiracy theory put out by Public Schools). The book doesn't care what the rules are, it'll just reiterate whatever views this individual's denom preaches, because the book is a niche for people who believe in that niche.

Many of them parallel secular tabloid magazines.

For women there'll be,
"10 steps to a Godly marriage" (11 steps is all heresy!) for young or old.

Perhaps for new moms,
"Raising your kids in God's House" (Was about to put Christ but it's not a given every Protestant believes that... - see, it's about niche, and marketing, you want everyone in the niche to buy you're book).

What do most of these books have for content?

Well since the people who bought them didn't do it to be challenged but rather the have their current beliefs confirmed.... it's usually just 1st person accounts either by the author or a collection of people, and maybe some stories from... wherever, which are designed to confirm the beliefs.

Ironically, most of the time these books can only strengthen the reader's beliefs circumstantially. But it works, because the reader already wants to believe.

So when the author joined their Protestant hoopla, whatever, they talk about any good thing that happened to them, no matter how small, and read it as a sign intentionally sent from God to confirm that they'd made the right choice...even though the connection is only clear to those who want the connection to be present.

"As soon as I became a Lutheran, the Steeler's won the game, after a year-long loosing streak, I felt like there must be some significance to this, and then I realized it was God, sending me a sign!"


Or many they read significance into the number of points on a Maple leaf...

Ya'll have probably stopped reading by now....
Jupiter is a giant gas planet which, had it been several times larger, would've ignited to become a second sun. Blah, blah, cornflakes, blah....
 
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Joseph Hazen

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Ya'll have probably stopped reading by now....
Jupiter is a giant gas planet which, had it been several times larger, would've ignited to become a second sun. Blah, blah, cornflakes, blah....

LoL, I read the whole thing (and liked it, and agreed with it), and we've talked a bit about how Jupiter acts like a miniature stellar system in my astronomy class this year. I thought it was very interesting.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Ya'll have probably stopped reading by now....
Jupiter is a giant gas planet which, had it been several times larger, would've ignited to become a second sun. Blah, blah, cornflakes, blah....

haha, no I read the entire thing and you are correct. when Christianity goes mainstream with the world, it ceases to be Christianity.

note* this is different than when Christianity sanctifies, blesses, and uses something from the world to make it Christian. just clarifying.
 
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I have to say I am not holding out a lot of hope for the movie of The Hobbit. The things I have heard make it sound like it will probably stink.

Peter Jackson SO does not understand Tolkien. The script writers that had a mere human with a magic ring shatter a resurrected Maia's staff, Frodo needing a woman to wave his sword for him at the Ford of Bruinen, turn the Elves into metrosexuals, have Frodo cause Gollum's fall, add all kinds of scenes and dialog that totally miss both Tolkien's story and his worldview... GAAAHHHH!!!

The last straw would be eliminating Bilbo's humility - I wouldn't put it past them.
 
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Peter Jackson SO does not understand Tolkien. The script writers that had a mere human with a magic ring shatter a resurrected Maia's staff, Frodo needing a woman to wave his sword for him at the Ford of Bruinen, turn the Elves into metrosexuals, have Frodo cause Gollum's fall, add all kinds of scenes and dialog that totally miss both Tolkien's story and his worldview... GAAAHHHH!!!

The last straw would be eliminating Bilbo's humility - I wouldn't put it past them.

Yes, so many abominations. And for one more, let me remind you of how another Maia was permanently killed (at the wrong time in the story) by a totally unexceptional human wielding a knife. Killed. Not simply unhoused from his physical form. Killed. :lost::lost::lost::lost::lost::lost:
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I have to say I am not holding out a lot of hope for the movie of The Hobbit. The things I have heard make it sound like it will probably stink.
I agree.

Seeing Gollum in action, it's not really exciting to see the previews of him again. I was just wanting to see the dragon, Smog...
 
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Ok, well here goes Gurney again, boldly sticking up for his feelings. I CAN HARDLY WAIT for the Hobbit to come out. I read this Tolkien "experts" online at so many forums, purists who've memorized the The Silmarillion and claim that Peter Jackson is a numbskull that doesn't "get" Tolkien. Look, Jackson dropped the ball in several spots whether it was having Aragorn dishonor the rules of engagement by beheading the Mouth of Sauron at the black gate, having elves fight at Helm's Deep, or having Arwen fight the Nasgul at the river. He made plenty of mistakes, but the overall spirit of the story, the key details, the passion, the human frailty, the fundamental lessons, the relationships, the journey, the wars, the conflicts, the essential esse of the story is all there in spades. The cinematography was outstanding, the acting superb, the dialogue awesome, the themes evident. I enjoyed them greatly. No, Tom Bombadil wasn't in the flicks, and I didn't have a stroke. I'm a big enough boy with a big enough brain to know that screenplays and gigantic novels don't necessarily go hand in hand.

I tire of the armchair film directors and amateur experts who think they know Tolkien better than Jackson, as if they could pull off the brilliant coup that he produced. All successful, talented men will draw haters. The "purists" will always scoff at everything, so I just roll my eyes.

I can hardly wait for The Hobbit. Having some semblence of an IQ and common sense, I know it will take some artistic liberties, probably drift a touch at times, probably even flub up some things, but I don't need a regurgitated novel. I have an open mind and can hardly wait.

In an age where we see drivel like Twilight, one would think that movies like LOTR and The Hobbit, albeit imperfect incarnations of the texts, would be welcome and lauded rather than picked apart.

I like Jackson. But then again, I'm one of those mindless guys that liked the Dark Knight flicks, too.

I've read the Knightfall comics, and Bane was NOT in prison with Talia Al-Ghul nor was he a member of the League of Shadows, as the movie paints him. Christopher Nolan took the nuts and bolts of Bane's past in the comics, and merged them to fit in with the story arc he had created starting with Batman Begins. I know the true story in the comics, so I'm not threatened by some artistic license or modifications. The awesome themes were still there, in spades.

Some people are going to pee their pants that James Bond has blonde hair now or that his boss, M, is a lady. Some people will be mad that Batman didn't have Robin. Some will be angry that Asgard was portrayed as another planet on the movie...you'll never please some experts.:o:o
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I've read the Knightfall comics, and Bane was NOT in prison with Talia Al-Ghul nor was he a member of the League of Shadows, as the movie paints him. Christopher Nolan took the nuts and bolts of Bane's past in the comics, and merged them to fit in with the story arc he had created starting with Batman Begins.
Actually..

Bane actually was a member of the League of Shadows once - and also chosen by Ra's Al-Ghul to be his successor when seeing how Bane challenged him/was ruthless (although Talia didn't love Bane). All of that was in the sagas after Knightfall when Bane faced Batman another time and lost in fair combat without the use of venom. More shared on the issue here..as I actually read the entire comic series in the bookstore. Pretty wild..​

BANE-OF-DEMON.jpg


 
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Quite true, Easy. No argument from me. But my point is that he wasn't a member of the League of Shadows through his relationship to Talia and then falling into the situation with Ras al Ghul in the manner of the film. In the comics, he's in Santa Prisca, Pena Dura prison, he personally is raised brutally, is self-taught, hardened by years of solitary and mistreatment, comes to Gotham, unleashes every hooligan and villain he can from Arkham, breaks Batman, gets his cumupins eventually, and then even later returns and fights with Batman if memory serves. It was later that Ras recruited him to join up with the League of Assassins. The movie had it reversed and the prison seems to be in some place like Moracco rather than in the Caribbean in a banana republic. There's nothing about Bane climbing up that tunnel and jumping out "rising" and he never saved Talia, etc. The movie wholly neglects the Venom aspect also. They make him out to be a type of Vader who needs it to breathe.

But my original point is I'M OK WITH THE CHANGES. Yeah, I'd have preferred the original story, but I know that Nolan wanted to create a trilogy and he had to come full-circle and make alterations. It's the nature of the beast with film. You have a shorter span.

Look at X-Men! Imagine how the original 3 films had to try to tell the entire story of the X-Men in three films! Crazy...in the comics, heck, Wolverine wasn't even on the scene until the 1970s!! ^_^ We was a late-comer to be sure! But in the movies, he comes before some of the late-joiners who in the comcs preceded him! :p But I don't care. I'm not that deep a purist. I like the themes, the story lines, the allegories, the big picture. Throw me enough accurate details and stay true to the vision and I can hang in there.

I'm looking forward to the Hobbit. I'm even more excited about Man of Steel coming out in summer. Geez I'm pumped over that!!!! Nolan's involved in the project so I'm optimistic! But it's inevitable that some "purist" experts will jump out of their chairs like we see in here and shout, "Superman is on a crabboat!!! What!? That wasn't in the comics! And where's the curly-que on his hair! Blasphemy! Nonsense!" ^_^

Easy G (G²);61958712 said:
Actually..

Bane actually was a member of the League of Shadows once - and also chosen by Ra's Al-Ghul to be his successor when seeing how Bane challenged him/was ruthless (although Talia didn't love Bane). All of that was in the sagas after Knightfall when Bane faced Batman another time and lost in fair combat without the use of venom. More shared on the issue here..as I actually read the entire comic series in the bookstore. Pretty wild..​

BANE-OF-DEMON.jpg


 
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