Protestant reformers reform what?

[Saint Steven]

But protestantism eventually snowballed into changes of doctrines among thousands of different competing ideologies...

The exaggerated claim is more divisive than the actual differences.

 

[HTacianas]

The exaggerated claim is more divisive than the actual differences.

How on earth is the claim exaggerated?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Bible possession once banned by the Catholic Church! has some good evidence on the pre-Reformation/Reformation stance on the Bible by the Catholic church.

It's Interesting how all that happened After The 1,054 A.D. Schism.

East–West Schism - Wikipedia

 

[Saint Steven]

How on earth is the claim exaggerated?

You wrote: "But protestantism eventually snowballed into changes of doctrines among thousands of different competing ideologies..."

How can this be true when they are creed-based churches?
What you claim as "changes of doctrines" are really just minor differences.
And "thousands of different competing ideologies"? Seriously?
No exaggerations there, right?

 

[HTacianas]

You wrote: "But protestantism eventually snowballed into changes of doctrines among thousands of different competing ideologies..."

How can this be true when they are creed-based churches?
What you claim as "changes of doctrines" are really just minor differences.
And "thousands of different competing ideologies"? Seriously?
No exaggerations there, right?

There is not an ounce of exaggeration in anything I've said.

 

[Saint Steven]

There is not an ounce of exaggeration in anything I've said.

How would you quantify the differences between the Roman Church and Eastern Orthodoxy? Why would you infer that Protestant churches were MORE different than that?

 

[HTacianas]

How would you quantify the differences between the Roman Church and Eastern Orthodoxy? Why would you infer that Protestant churches were MORE different than that?

The schism between the East and West is predicated on the Roman bishop's claim of supremacy over the Eastern Patriarchs.

I don't "infer" the differences between protestant denominations, I know what they are. I have already given examples of different denominations outright condemning other denominations.

Now, I do not have the time nor inclination to list all of the denominations of protestantism or to go into detail on their beliefs. That's something you'll have to take up on your own.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Did they really reform anything?

The reason the Protestant reformation was successful as opposed to other movements is simple. It coinciding with the Bible (illegally ) getting into the hands of the general public for the first time in human history.

What it represents more than anything else is dividing line between the Christian world that did not have nor read Bibles. To the Christian world that had and read Bibles.

It also represented the end of the age of the four gentile empires and the beginning of the age of promise. The beginning of the end of the ancient despotic world and the beginning of the free world.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The universal Church forbid the reading of Scriptures? Maybe the Roman Catholic Church leadership did, but I doubt that the Patriarchs of the other Churches were doing that whatsoever.

Universal Church = RCC

 

[truefiction1]

Universal Church = RCC

The RCC was universal primarily only in western Europe. The Church was extant in other places, not believing in papal supremacy as defined by the RCC, not selling indulgences, etc... and not undergoing a Protestant reformation.

 

[Ecclesiastian]

It's called the Reformation because of Luther's original intention. He never wanted to leave the Roman church outright, he merely wanted it to adopt the faith alone through grace alone approach and purge itself of the corruption in the church government, like how the church was selling indulgences. Rome excommunicated him before he could do so however, so instead it created separate denomination of Christianity (though the Lutherans still view themselves as the true Catholic Church).

 

[Albion]

The RCC was universal primarily only in western Europe. The Church was extant in other places, not believing in papal supremacy as defined by the RCC, not selling indulgences, etc... and not undergoing a Protestant reformation.

Yeh, but it is not an uncommon use of the term to indicate that the entirety of the "world" that these people knew during the era we are speaking about was under the governance of one church/denomination, the Church of Rome.

It was not as though any of them could have turned instead to the Greek Orthodox church or the Armenian or Ethiopian church if they had some problem with their own religious leadership.

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't "infer" the differences between protestant denominations, I know what they are. I have already given examples of different denominations outright condemning other denominations.

Sure, there are differences. But "thousands" of differences due to "changes in doctrine" is a ridiculous claim. A careless and unfounded exaggeration.

 

[HTacianas]

Sure, there are differences. But "thousands" of differences due to "changes in doctrine" is a ridiculous claim. A careless and unfounded exaggeration.

So why don't you hit some of the high points of differences in doctrines for us.

 

[FenderTL5]

So why don't you hit some of the high points of differences in doctrines for us.

I understood him to be saying that there are no doctrinal differences between protestant denominations.

 

[Albion]

The Reformation began as a protest (hence protest-ant, protestant) against the abuses of the Roman Church. Those abuses were quite real, and were addressed by the Council of Trent.

"Addressed"...by ignoring most of them and/or condemning them.

But protestantism eventually snowballed into changes of doctrines among thousands of different competing ideologies, each at odds with and often condemning the others.

You are speaking of different churches/denominations. There never was "The Protestant Church" which somehow broke apart later.

And if anyone insists upon speaking that way, he ought also admit that all the other branches of Christianity have experienced the same fate, yours included, and the Church of Rome as well.

 

[Saint Steven]

So why don't you hit some of the high points of differences in doctrines for us.

Why should I have to debunk your outrageous claim?

 

[Albion]

I understood him to be saying that there are no doctrinal differences between protestant denominations.

I am interpreting--

Sure, there are differences.

to mean something else. Probably this--

But "thousands" of differences due to "changes in doctrine" is a ridiculous claim.

 

[FenderTL5]

I am interpreting--

to mean something else.

That likely because you (initially) left out the majority of his quote, which went on to add:

"...thousands" of differences due to "changes in doctrine" is a ridiculous claim. A careless and unfounded exaggeration.

Taken together, he seems to be saying that any differences are minor and not doctrinal in nature - or at least that's my take.

 

[HTacianas]

"Addressed"...by ignoring most of them and/or condemning them.


You are speaking of different churches/denominations. There never was "The Protestant Church" which somehow broke apart later.

And if anyone insists upon speaking that way, he ought also admit that all the other branches of Christianity have experienced the same fate, yours included, and the Church of Rome as well.

Are we still arguing over the definition of "protestant" or is this something else altogether?