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Historicist Only Protestant Historicism

BABerean2

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What is your view of the 1,000 from Rev. 20? Are you Pre, Post or Amil?
All of us have to make the choice of making some unit of time not "literal".

We have "hour" and "all" in John chapter 5, where Jesus seems to indicate a simultaneous resurrection of both the Godly and the ungodly.

We have the same simultaneous resurrection from Job, Daniel, Paul, and John.

We have Jesus discussing the resurrection at the "last day" in John chapter 6.

We can redefine all of these and get a 1,000 year reign of Christ after His Second Coming, where sin and death continue.

or we can understand that John saw the "souls" of those who died in-Christ living and reigning with Christ in heaven for a very long (1,000) time before the return of Christ. This is a reference to the length of time that the souls reign, but it does not discuss how long Christ reigns. His reign is given as forever in Rev. chapter 11.
The 1,000 year reign of Christ is an assumption.

I have always been bothered by the idea of mortals living to a very old age, but still dying after the return of Christ.
Would Christ perform their funeral service?
Where would their souls go, since Christ is here?
If the Christians are ruling over these mortals during the 1,000 years we must do a terrible job if they rebel against Christ.
Does Christ just let Satan out of the pit and allow him to foment a rebellion, all while Christ is in control of the planet?

These questions have caused me to reject the premill position.

I also do not see things getting better, so therefore I have also discarded the postmill view.

Amill means, No Millennium, which is an unfortunate term.

In my humble opinion the 1,000 years is a symbol that represents the whole "Church Age".

I know a lot of good people who hold the classic premill position.
Some of them are nonDispensational Baptists, like Pastor Sam Adams from Florida.

.


 
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JM

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Makes sense. You may enjoy this site: MoellerHaus

The author is Amil.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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interpreter

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Yes, in Bible prophecy, one day often turns out to be one year. For example, the 7th head of the beast (Muslims) trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years, not 1260 days.
 
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JM

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Yes, in Bible prophecy, one day often turns out to be one year. For example, the 7th head of the beast (Muslims) trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years, not 1260 days.

interpreter, did you notice the Wiki site mentions only the cults as holding to this view? I've tried to change it a few times but someone alters it back everytime. It gives the impression that this key principle is unorthodox when clearly it was the main theory of all Protestants until the advent of Dispensationalism and Preterism.

jm
 
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JM

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Quote from the link above:

As the choppy waters of September 2015 move ashore, all eyes will be on Pope Francis’ visit to the United States, jittery stock markets and signs in the heavens.


Francis is expected to enthusiastically endorse a new U.N. document that promises to wipe out poverty by 2030 by reordering the world economy along the lines of socialist principles. The document, titled “Transforming Our World: 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development,” also seeks to “strengthen universal peace” and usher in a new era of shared prosperity.

The pope’s visit marks just one in a series of historic and potentially prophetic events during the month of September.

  • The climax of the biblical Sabbath year known as the Shemitah occurs on Sept. 13, along with a partial solar eclipse.
  • The largest-ever military exercise, Jade Helm, concludes Sept. 15, while the world’s most ambitious scientific experiment is taking place all month at the CERN Large Hadron Collider near Geneva, Switzerland.
  • Congress is supposed to vote on Obama’s Iran nuclear deal by by Sept. 17.
  • The 266th pope arrives on Sept. 23, the 266th day of the year, which also happens to be Yom Kippur or the Jewish Day of Atonement, and the beginning of the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha, also known as “the Feast of the Sacrifice.”
  • Francis will be the first pope to address a joint session of Congress Sept. 24.
  • Francis delivers the keynote speech Sept. 25 to the U.N. sustainability summit in New York.
  • On Sept. 28, the fourth and last of the “blood moons” takes place on the biblical Feast of Tabernacles.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/mega-agenda-21-resurrected-with-popes-help/#IiZbPcQFI3tFQDVP.99
 
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JM

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Premillenial Interpretations do Violence to the Prophecy

The following diagram illustrates the way that some interpreters force the scripture into their interpretation instead of diagramming the scripture and fitting the interpretation to the scripture. Such a forced interpretation as that illustrated below could not be done by our Omniscient God, He would not create a freak to represent what is real. Imagine a god who said that "History will look like a statue" and then to match the interpretation you have to draw toes as long as the rest of the statue. Such a statue has to lie on his side because he can not stand on such deformed feet. Since premillenial scholars know that the division of the Roman Empire into 10 kingdoms took place about 500 years after the advent of Jesus of Nazareth and they err in not believing "the little stone" has hit the image in the feet as yet, then they are forced to draw toes that are 1500 years long. The diagram is not actually proportionate however since an honest picture of the toes make them 1 and 1/3 times longer that the complete standing image. The rest of the statue is proportionate to the time periods that each symbolic portion predicted. Surely God did not predict history represented by a freak statue. source
 
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BABerean2

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Good article in the "source".
 
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interpreter

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It was the main theory of all Protestants until the advent of Futurism. Some of us are both a historicist and a dispensationalist. I believe that the Day of the Lord is the third millenium AD which began in 2001. That happens to be when the Battle of Ar Mageddon began, also called "The Battle of That Great Day of God Almighty." It began on 9/11 when, it also happens, the Euphrates was dry. Presently, the US, the 4th horseman to rule the earth for Jesus, is dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the latest face of the 7th head of Satan. Soon Satan will be so soundly defeated that he wont be heard from again for a thousand years. I am also called a preterist because I say the second coming was in 312 AD, when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse. So please be careful with your labels
 
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interpreter

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I'm glad you mentioned the Puritans. Some editions of the Geneva Bible that they carried to America said, in a note on the first horseman, that the 1st horseman was Constantine (as I also have concluded). That was a basic tenet of the historic view of the day, and needs to be revived.
 
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owly

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JM,

I'll check out that amil site you mentioned.

I thought that Historicism would have some agreement with the amil position?

I suppose that K. Riddlebarger has had quite an influence on me over the last few years, in adopting the amil position, after my earlier pentecostal/dispy roots.

Anyway, I understand the saints 1000 yrs in Rev. to simply mean that even though they died, their death and subsequent reign, is in fact a never-ending/unshakable glorious victory,
ie 1000 simply being used as an expression of that event.
 
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JM

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If I'm not mistaken the Idealist Amil of Riddlebarger was popular in the Dutch Reformed churches but not the rest of Protestantism...I could be wrong. The Dutch school seems to limit their idealism to Revelation meaning, the hermeneutic in which they read the last book of the Bible differs from how they read the rest of the Bible. If you look at the Geneva Bible or the Dutch commentators up to the 1800's they tended to view passages like Dan. 9 and 2 Thess. 2 like any good Historicist.
 
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interpreter

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I believe the 1000 years is literal and fast approaching. We are now experiencing the 7 last plagues including the Battle of Ar Mageddon which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. Currently, the US (the 4th horseman to rule the earth for Jesus) is dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the latest face of the 7th head of Satan. The final battle between good and evil results in Satan being so soundly defeated (by a US-led coalition?) that he wont be heard from again for a thousand years -- allowing the Church to reign over the earth in peace for 1000 years.
 
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interpreter

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A literal period of time or a literal 1000 years? Could it be 999 or 1001 years?

Just asking.
If the past is any indication, the 1000 year figure is both literal and exact. For example, the great tribulation of WW II lasted exactly 42 months -- when you figure it from December 1941 (when the US entered the conflict and it became a world war) to May 1945 (when Hitler the antichrist was killed).
 
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