Protestant Christian dilemma

Jesusthekingofking

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Protestant Christian affirmed the reformation, but what's their methodology of discernment on that subject? Many protestant Christian can't even tell the differences btw the denominations. I don't think they study the reformation correctly. By correctly I mean they should have read how the reformation is going back the early teaching of the church. If someone claim he's a protestant, he/she must be well educated of church history and have read the church fathers.

I've seen too many protestant Christian defend the teaching of their church, yet ignorance about the writing of the early church and ignore the teaching of other protestant denomination leaders. If that's the attidude of working out our discernment, we can easily fall into a cult or believing a new religion.
 

dóxatotheó

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Many protestant Christian can't even tell the differences btw the denominations
Where did you get this info from?

I don't think they study the reformation correctly.
If they did they most likely would stay Protestant, the reformation was triggered heavily by the practices such as indulgences essentially, by purchasing an indulgence, an individual could reduce the length and severity of punishment that heaven would require as payment for their sins, or so the church claimed. Buy an indulgence for a loved one, and they would go to heaven and not burn in hell. Which the reformers disagreed with which set off the Thesis. Practices and The authority Rome had caused the reformation.
By correctly I mean they should have read how the reformation is going back the early teaching of the church.
What do you even mean by this? What does the reformation gotta do with The early church? The early church traditions and scripture authority was the main reason for the reformation, Martin Luther and John Calvin both believed in church tradition but believed scripture as primal authority have you read they works before?

If someone claim he's a protestant, he/she must be well educated of church history and have read the church fathers.
This statement just is very ignorant in itself, you dont need to be well verse on church history and still affirm the reformer theology. Not every Christian need to focus on Church history.
I've seen too many protestant Christian defend the teaching of their church, yet ignorance about the writing of the early church and ignore the teaching of other protestant denomination leaders.
Ok so? Are they supposed to?
If that's the attitude of working out our discernment, we can easily fall into a cult or believing a new religion.
Dont think so, most of the time Christian denominations that are not the majority stem from ideals that are not really from the Protestant councils and synods, and teachings of the reformers most of the time those beliefs stem from Solo Scriptura(Scripture Only to determine everything)vs. Sola Scriptura(Scripture is primal over tradition on means of faith). We wouldn't be so ignorant and say we would fall in cults if we all have read the canons of the council of orange, the 95 thesis, and the Westminster confession(Also the mainline Protestant denominations has catechisms).

Side Note: Not all Protestants need to be well verse on history to refute common Papal claims on there faith.

Btw: Im Orthodox just showing that this thread is very disingenuous and a very opinionated position.
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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Where did you get this info from?

If they did they most likely would stay Protestant, the reformation was triggered heavily by the practices such as indulgences essentially, by purchasing an indulgence, an individual could reduce the length and severity of punishment that heaven would require as payment for their sins, or so the church claimed. Buy an indulgence for a loved one, and they would go to heaven and not burn in hell. Which the reformers disagreed with which set off the Thesis.
What do you even mean by this? What does the reformation gotta do with The early church? The early church traditions and scripture authority was the main reason for the two, Martin Luther and John Calvin both believed in church tradition but believed scripture as primal authority have you read they works before?

This statement just is very ignorant in itself, you dont need to be well verse on church history and still affirm the reformer theology. Not every Christian need to focus on Church history.
Ok so? Are they supposed to?
Dont think so, most of the time Christian denominations that are not the majority stem from ideals that are not really from the Protestant councils and synods, and teachings of the reformers most of the time those beliefs stem from Solo Scriptura(Scripture Only to determine everything)vs. Sola Scriptura(Scripture is primal over tradition on means of faith). We wouldn't be so ignorant and say we would fall in cults if we all have read the canons of the council of orange, the 95 thesis, and the Westminster confession.

Side Note: Not all Protestants need to be well verse on history to refute common Papal claims on there faith.

Btw: Im Orthodox just showing that this thread is very disingenuous and a very opinionated position.
If they don't read the early stuff how could they tell what's the teaching of the ancient church? You may say they read their bible, but they'll end up arguing with each other.
 
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dóxatotheó

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If they don't read the early stuff how could they tell what's the teaching of the ancient church? You may say they read their bible, but they'll end up arguing with each other.
Dont think so, most of the time Christian denominations that are not the majority stem from ideals that are not really from the Protestant councils and synods, and teachings of the reformers most of the time those beliefs stem from Solo Scriptura(Scripture Only to determine everything)vs. Sola Scriptura(Scripture is primal over tradition on means of faith). We wouldn't be so ignorant and say we would fall in cults if we all have read the canons of the council of orange, the 95 thesis, and the Westminster confession(Also the mainline Protestant denominations has catechisms).
This quote should answer that.
 
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dóxatotheó

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If they don't read the early stuff how could they tell what's the teaching of the ancient church?
Lemme ask you does it matter in anyway what ancient church opinions were unless it was ecumenical decrees, I wouldn't make a fuss over it really. Lemme ask you this question do you think saints interpretation on scripture is infallible?
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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This quote should answer that.
This is Eastern orthodox methodology but it has its flaw. Martin Luther quote augustine and preached sola scriptula. What authority does the Eastern Church to claim they got it all while other groups of Christian too existed on the earth? Also, many protestant denomination read the church fathers but didn't end up being an Eastern orthodox. The concern is how Eastern orthodox weigh the teaching of the leaders? By concensus? The concensus is false when it's limited to a small group of church leaders on this earth.

So basically when the Eastern church talk about concensus they actually concensus of what WE thinks it's right. How does that differ from other denominations which they also think they're teaching the right thing?
 
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dóxatotheó

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This is Eastern orthodox methodology but it has its flaw
hmm dont see how my denom has anything to do with this position.
Martin Luther quote augustine and preached sola scriptula.
I know just told you what sola scriptura was.
What authority does the Eastern Church to claim they got it all while other groups of Christian too existed on the earth?
Stay on topic, also the authority is tradition and scripture and just logic really. But please stay on topic in means of discussion.
Also, many protestant denomination read the church fathers but didn't end up being an Eastern orthodox.
Ok? I dont care if they do or dont most of the time they read only first and second century because Constantinople 2 leads to Orthodoxy, so I know this position just from ad authority.
The concern is how Eastern orthodox weigh the teaching of the leaders? By concensus? The concensus is false when it's limited to a small group of church leaders on this earth.
What do you mean are you just spatting rubbish? The patriarchs are sees our consensus is from exegesis not rubbish ideals bro.
So basically when the Eastern church talk about concensus they actually concensus of what WE thinks it's right.
What?
How does that differ from other denominations which they also think they're teaching the right thing?
We dont differ from Apostolic Churches on means of exegesis and tradition and scripture we been debating who universal for years because both sides argue from scripture and tradition.Protestants dont need to debate that as they know they arent Apostolic they affirm the position that the See was corrupted so they broke off and started a church, like i said they dont affirm tradition equal to scripture bro.
 
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dóxatotheó

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In general, does it matter? Eo, RC and protestant are seperated today. The issue isn't uniquely present in protestantism.
RC cause the separations on both sides of the field with they practices that wasn't accepted.
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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hmm dont see how my denom has anything to do with this position.
I know just told you what sola scriptura was.
Stay on topic, also the authority is tradition and scripture and just logic really. But please stay on topic in means of discussion.
Ok? I dont care if they do or dont most of the time they read only first and second century because Constantinople 2 leads to Orthodoxy, so I know this position just from ad authority.

What do you mean are you just spatting rubbish? The patriarchs are sees our consensus is from exegesis not rubbish ideals bro.

What?

We dont differ from Apostolic Churches on means of exegesis and tradition and scripture we been debating who universal for years because both sides argue from scripture and tradition.Protestants dont need to debate that as they know they arent Apostolic they affirm the position that the See was corrupted so they broke off and started a church, like i said they dont affirm tradition equal to scripture bro.
Tradition can be in error, protestant affirm the bible has the highest authority not any random guy's teaching.
 
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dóxatotheó

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Jesusthekingofking

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No not at all... Tradition cant change as why its called Tradition opinions can change is why opinions arent traditionally taught doe.
Literally said but they arent random guys seem to be misinformed
Then what is tradition? I see tradition as things that has happened, tradition include culture, people, time, environment, incident etc
 
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dóxatotheó

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Then what is tradition? I see tradition as things that has happened, tradition include culture, people, time, environment, incident etc
traditions evangelize by apostles to there disciples
 
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trophy33

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This can be said about members of any church or of any tradition. Protestants, at least, know their Bibles well, generally speaking.

The vast majority of people need just some simple way to live and think and do not have desire or time to read and study everything that exists.
 
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dóxatotheó

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This can be said about members of any church or of any tradition. Protestants, at least, know their Bibles well, generally speaking.

The vast majority of people need just some simple way to live and think and do not have desire or time to read and study everything that exists.
Literally!!!
 
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Athanasius377

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If they don't read the early stuff how could they tell what's the teaching of the ancient church? You may say they read their bible, but they'll end up arguing with each other.
As a Protestant, I am protestant precisely because I studied the history and the writings of the early church fathers. I would also caution you when anyone states, the Early church fathers say . . . You know you are dealing with someone who is either ignorant or has an agenda. The fact is the ECF say a lot of different things about any number of topics. Some have great insight on a particular topic but are out to lunch on another. Neither Rome nor Constantinople have a monopoly of church history or the ECF. In fact both I would argue both have their seeds in the medieval era. EO in the 700-900 and Rome in 1000 to 1200. That's why you have the reformers such as Luther and Calvin taking great pains to point out that they are not teaching anything new but rather Rome is the innovator.
 
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Albion

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Protestant Christian affirmed the reformation, but what's their methodology of discernment on that subject? Many protestant Christian can't even tell the differences btw the denominations. I don't think they study the reformation correctly. By correctly I mean they should have read how the reformation is going back the early teaching of the church. If someone claim he's a protestant, he/she must be well educated of church history and have read the church fathers.
You probably do have a point there because there are some Protestants who will say that they don't care about Church History in general but instead are interested only in what the Bible says. On the other hand, it is no more important for Protestants to know this information than it is for Catholics...and there is no denomination or communion that can honestly say that all of its members are "up" on the specifics you are referring to, whether or not that's distressing to us.
 
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Albion

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traditions evangelize by apostles to there disciples
That's how the theory goes. Not the fact but the theory.

What you've said is just stipulated; it's not verifiable by history. Indeed, most of it is refuted by history.

The people who, in defense of "Tradition" or the Councils or the Early Church Fathers, say what you did here might just as well say it of tea leaves instead...but along with the claim that the result is really God's will or revelation. o_O
 
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That's how the theory goes. Not the fact but the theory.

What you've said is just stipulated; it's not verifiable by history. Indeed, most of it is refuted by history.
Wouldn't go as far and make that claim the sacraments never changed and the political ideals in the church was held at the same standard since the ordination of Linus.
along with the claim that the result is really God's will or revelation.
Tradition are from disciples heretics cannot change wat was revealed in the scriptures!!
 
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