Protestant beliefs

ViaCrucis

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I asked you to use scripture. I certainly hope your own beliefs are based on scripture and not just on the word of Martin Luther who advocates to sin boldly. NO WHERE in the word of God does Jesus or any apostle teach that.

It's what the Apostle says in Romans, that where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. The Apostle isn't advocating sin (and neither was Luther), the Apostle (and Luther) instead were talking about the immensity of grace. Of course one can only talk about the immensity of grace when talking about the seriousness of sin. If one denies the seriousness of sin, then one can no longer talk about grace in any meaningful way--after all the Gospel is for sinners, and if one refuses to confess their sins as a sinner, then they reject the Gospel which is for them. If you believe yourself not a sinner, then you reject the Gospel and the grace of God. That is faithlessness.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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FireDragon76

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That's why Luther ends the letter with the instructions to "pray boldly, because you are a great sinner". Catholic polemicists love to take that phrase, "sin boldly", out of its context.
 
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ViaCrucis

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That's why Luther ends the letter with the instructions to "pray boldly, because you are a great sinner". Catholic polemicists love to take that phrase, "sin boldly", out of its context.

Aye. His whole point is that if one is a preacher of grace one has to preach real grace to real sinners; not imaginary grace to imaginary sinners. If we are preaching imaginary things then we are playing a game of pretend religion. We might as well all be children sitting around with empty tea cups and stuffed animals.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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FireDragon76

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Aye. His whole point is that if one is a preacher of grace one has to preach real grace to real sinners; not imaginary grace to imaginary sinners. If we are preaching imaginary things then we are playing a game of pretend religion. We might as well all be children sitting around with empty tea cups and stuffed animals.

-CryptoLutheran

"Pretend grace" was what I experienced in two previous churches. That's why I'm a Lutheran.
 
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1stcenturylady

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It's what the Apostle says in Romans, that where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. The Apostle isn't advocating sin (and neither was Luther), the Apostle (and Luther) instead were talking about the immensity of grace. Of course one can only talk about the immensity of grace when talking about the seriousness of sin. If one denies the seriousness of sin, then one can no longer talk about grace in any meaningful way--after all the Gospel is for sinners, and if one refuses to confess their sins as a sinner, then they reject the Gospel which is for them. If you believe yourself not a sinner, then you reject the Gospel and the grace of God. That is faithlessness.

-CryptoLutheran

The difference is in the definition of grace. You are still looking at grace as unmerited favor, but that is only BEFORE Christ when He died for us while we were yet undeserving sinners.

John 1:14 says Christ is full of grace. Is that saying Christ is full of unmerited favor? Of course not. Christ is God and is full of power. When we repent and turn to Christ, He gives us His own powerful Spirit. His Spirit is what makes us dead to sin (Romans 6:2) and no longer in the flesh (Romans 8:9). We are new creatures with brand new desires not to sin. We love what God loves, just as Christ did, and we hate what God hates, just as Christ did. We have the mind of Christ. We did nothing to deserve this except to repent of our sins, which is the reason why John the Baptist came first making the way straight through repentance to hear His voice and then gave us the POWER to follow Him.

This difference in definition was noted in the Semetic style of writing called parallelism, or doubling. Saying the same thing that means the same, but said in two different ways, but using different words that mean the same thing for confirmation.

Acts 4:33 uses this style of parallelism. "And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all."

Thus, grace is the power of God.
 
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Ron Gurley

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The New Covenant never replaced the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant remained, and remains, until the end of the world, according to Jesus.

False!!
.
Punishment for Disobedience...Part of the OT "old covenant" with God's Chosen People under the Mosaic Law

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that
I have set before you life and death,
the blessing and the curse.
So choose life in order that you may live,
you and your descendants,

But read on through the NT...

Jesus the God-Man fulfilled the Mosaic Law in his coming and ministry,

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Luke 24:44
Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

He clarified, corrected, added, subtracted,...etc

The NEW Covenant!..."substitutionary atonement."

Matthew 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out FOR many FOR forgiveness of sins.
26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples,
and said, “Take, eat; this is (represents) My body.”

Mark 14:24
And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out FOR many.
22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them,
and said, “Take it; this is (represents) My body.”

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying,
“This cup which is poured out FOR you is the NEW covenant IN My blood.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is IN Christ, he is a new creature;
the old things passed away;
behold, new things have come.

God disciplines and trains those whom he loves...just like my earthly father.
 
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1stcenturylady

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The New Covenant never replaced the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant remained, and remains, until the end of the world, according to Jesus.

False!!
.
Punishment for Disobedience...Part of the OT "old covenant" with God's Chosen People under the Mosaic Law

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that
I have set before you life and death,
the blessing and the curse.
So choose life in order that you may live,
you and your descendants,

But read on through the NT...

Jesus the God-Man fulfilled the Mosaic Law in his coming and ministry,

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Luke 24:44
Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

He clarified, corrected, added, subtracted,...etc

The NEW Covenant!..."substitutionary atonement."

Matthew 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out FOR many FOR forgiveness of sins.
26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples,
and said, “Take, eat; this is (represents) My body.”

Mark 14:24
And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out FOR many.
22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them,
and said, “Take it; this is (represents) My body.”

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying,
“This cup which is poured out FOR you is the NEW covenant IN My blood.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is IN Christ, he is a new creature;
the old things passed away;
behold, new things have come.

God disciplines and trains those whom he loves...just like my earthly father.

So is your denomination of choice, Universalism? I forget.
 
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Ron Gurley

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"denomination" of Ron Gurley's "choice" =
NON-DENOMINATIONAL...
FUNDAMENTAL...
EVANGELICAL....
"SCRIPTURA SUPREMA"...
ETC. ETC. ETC.....I hate generalist LABELS!

Please CLEARLY define the beliefs of "PROTESTANISM" / "Protestant beliefs"!!
NON-RCC?
 
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1stcenturylady

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"denomination" of Ron Gurley's "choice" =
NON-DENOMINATIONAL...
FUNDAMENTAL...
EVANGELICAL....
"SCRIPTURA SUPREMA"...
ETC. ETC. ETC.....I hate generalist LABELS!

Please CLEARLY define the beliefs of "PROTESTANISM" / "Protestant beliefs"!!
NON-RCC?


Oh good, you're just like me! (Not)

You have a label whether you want one or not.
I'm "Spirit-filled," which is not a denomination.
 
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Ron Gurley

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I accept NO LABELS! Which ones do you accept?

RE: "Spirit-filled"....Are you SURE of that?

full ....Greek 4134...pleres...of the soul, thoroughly permeated with (influenced by)

of the Holy ...Greek 40....hagios...most holy, (righteous, pure)

Spirit....Greek 4151...pneuma...the third person of the tri-une God, God the Holy Spirit
A.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
B.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
C.never referred to as a depersonalised force

Acts 2:4
And they (11 disciples at Pentecost) were "all filled with the Holy Spirit" and
began to speak with other tongues (glossae=languages),
as the (God the Holy) Spirit was giving them utterance.

filled....Greek 4130...pimplemi (DIFFERENT WORD!)...~to be fulfilled, to be filled
with the Holy ...hagios
Spirit ...pneuma

Acts 2: 13...But others were mocking and saying, “They are FULL OF sweet wine.” (under the influence of alchohol!)

Luke 1:41 ....When Elizabeth heard Mary’s (with Jesus in utero) greeting, the baby (John) leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was "filled with the Holy Spirit."

Luke 1:67 [ Zacharias’s Prophecy ]
And his (John the Baptizer's biological) father Zacharias was" filled with the Holy Spirit", and prophesied, saying:

Acts 4:8 ...Then Peter, "filled with the Holy Spirit", said to them,...

Acts 4:31...And when they (Peter and John?) had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and
they were "all (both?) filled with the Holy Spirit" and
began to speak the word of God with boldness.

Acts 13:9
But Saul, who was also known as Paul, "filled with the Holy Spirit", fixed his gaze on him,

Acts 13:52
And the disciples were continually "filled" with joy and "with the Holy Spirit".
 
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1stcenturylady

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I accept NO LABELS! Which ones do you accept?

RE: "Spirit-filled"....Are you SURE of that?

full ....Greek 4134...pleres...of the soul, thoroughly permeated with (influenced by)

of the Holy ...Greek 40....hagios...most holy, (righteous, pure)

Spirit....Greek 4151...pneuma...the third person of the tri-une God, God the Holy Spirit
A.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
B.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
C.never referred to as a depersonalised force

Acts 2:4
And they (11 disciples at Pentecost) were "all filled with the Holy Spirit" and
began to speak with other tongues (glossae=languages),
as the (God the Holy) Spirit was giving them utterance.

filled....Greek 4130...pimplemi (DIFFERENT WORD!)...~to be fulfilled, to be filled
with the Holy ...hagios
Spirit ...pneuma

Acts 2: 13...But others were mocking and saying, “They are FULL OF sweet wine.” (under the influence of alchohol!)

Luke 1:41 ....When Elizabeth heard Mary’s (with Jesus in utero) greeting, the baby (John) leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was "filled with the Holy Spirit."

Luke 1:67 [ Zacharias’s Prophecy ]
And his (John the Baptizer's biological) father Zacharias was" filled with the Holy Spirit", and prophesied, saying:

Acts 4:8 ...Then Peter, "filled with the Holy Spirit", said to them,...

Acts 4:31...And when they (Peter and John?) had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and
they were "all (both?) filled with the Holy Spirit" and
began to speak the word of God with boldness.

Acts 13:9
But Saul, who was also known as Paul, "filled with the Holy Spirit", fixed his gaze on him,

Acts 13:52
And the disciples were continually "filled" with joy and "with the Holy Spirit".

Yes, without a shadow of a doubt; but not until after I had gone to church for 30 years! The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is literal, not just by faith as some believe, but by knowledge. It is like the consummation of a marriage. You experience it. You know it. You're not just married on paper; you have become one.
 
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Episaw

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What is an AVO? I agree he should not have used a secular court.
An Apprehension Violence Order which says you cannot go near the person taking it out or you will go to jail.
 
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Episaw

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Martin Luther may have been a true Protestant but I do not regard him as an authority on true doctrine. So I wonder are there other or should there be other categories besides Catholic and Protestant; say a category for Wesley.

Luther actually wasn't a true protestant as he did not start the protestant reformation, another priest in Germany did and Luther never left the Roman church and never stopped being a RC priest
 
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sparow

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Luther actually wasn't a true protestant as he did not start the protestant reformation, another priest in Germany did and Luther never left the Roman church and never stopped being a RC priest

A Protestant is any member of a body that separated from the Roman Communion during the reformation or their offshoot and primarily it is about rejecting the authority of the RCC and the Pope.
 
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ToBeLoved

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A Protestant is any member of a body that separated from the Roman Communion during the reformation or their offshoot and primarily it is about rejecting the authority of the RCC and the Pope.
That is exactly what Protestism started out as.

Now everyone has all these labels for what Protestism is or is not. Ugh
 
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FireDragon76

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The Gospel of grace is not just for heathens, it's also for Christians, because in this life we are both just and a sinner, we will be in various stages of weak faith and even unbelief and we need to hear the Good News all over again. The Devil doesn't let go of us so easily.

We do believe there is power in God's grace. But Pentecostal theology is not necessarily something we can agree with, neither their views of human nature, which doesn't take human depravity as seriously as we do, or their anti-sacramentalism, which denies God's promises.
 
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Episaw

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A Protestant is any member of a body that separated from the Roman Communion during the reformation or their offshoot and primarily it is about rejecting the authority of the RCC and the Pope.
Luther never rejected the authority of the Pope, just what he said. His main beef was the selling of indulgences that is why he emphasized sola scripture.
 
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