Protestant beliefs

FireDragon76

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Yes, I know you're not.

So, moral purity was not that important to Jesus, either. He was far more interesting in seeing people do good for their fellow human beings than the kind of self-righteous religion that the pharisees practiced.
 
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1stcenturylady

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So, moral purity was not that important to Jesus, either. He was far more interesting in seeing people do good for their fellow human beings than the kind of self-righteous religion that the pharisees practiced.

Please read my post #174. It's obvious you haven't yet.

I'm going to go have my tea.
 
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FireDragon76

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I did read it. Death and renewal are a continuous process in the Christian life. We are therefore both declared righteous and yet sinful in this life.

I will be blunt. Instant sanctification is a dangerous doctrine that has caused deadly presumption in many. Hell no doubt has more than a few people who thought they were righteous by their own merits.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I did read it. Death and renewal are a continuous process in the Christian life. We are therefore both declared righteous and yet sinful in this life.

I will be blunt. Instant sanctification is a dangerous doctrine that has caused deadly presumption in many. Hell no doubt has more than a few people who thought they were righteous by their own merits.

I don't disagree with you. Human effort to keep the law without the love provided through our new nature, is just spinning your wheels, and going no place.

There is no such thing as instant sanctification, but there is such a thing as being Baptized with the Holy Spirit. That baptism is powerful and our desires to sin are transformed immediately. We love what God loves, and hate what God hates. Our desire is to ONLY do His will. But it takes time/sanctification to learn what His complete will is.

It is the Holy Spirit that STARTS the process of bearing fruit worthy of repentance. Personally, I didn't know what unclear law was sin, until it was revealed to me. There were sins I still committed, not knowing they were sins. And I suffered greatly because of them. "We learn obedience through suffering."

When our love for God grows great, we don't want to do anything that may displease Him. It is called the fear of the Lord. And with the Spirit of Christ literally in us, this yoke is easy.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Yes, I know they're not. The problem is, you know it's not and remain in it.

No disrespect but we see it differently.....if you truly understand sin,even though the Holy Spirit empowers and constantly improves our morality.....( if you think I am a delusional ,lost sinner now—- you should have know me years ago before I became a Believer !).....we are still gonna need tons of Grace when we die.we’ll know perfection “ over there”. When God “ finishes the work He started “ we both sin every day ( remember those sins of omission that still nobody will discuss?).... the only difference is I know it and you don’t. This is how “ my side “ sees it .....again, no disrespect intended.God bless you,fine lady!
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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I did read it. Death and renewal are a continuous process in the Christian life. We are therefore both declared righteous and yet sinful in this life.

I will be blunt. Instant sanctification is a dangerous doctrine that has caused deadly presumption in many. Hell no doubt has more than a few people who thought they were righteous by their own merits.



I will flat out GUARANTEE that anybody who thinks they are “ righteous “ will go to Hell. Those that offer up their “ works of righteousness “ are the ones that hear “ depart from me , I never knew you “
 
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1stcenturylady

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No disrespect but we see it differently.....if you truly understand sin,even though the Holy Spirit empowers and constantly improves our morality.....( if you think I am a delusional ,lost sinner now—- you should have know me years ago before I became a Believer !).....we are still gonna need tons of Grace when we die.we’ll know perfection “ over there”. When God “ finishes the work He started “ we both sin every day ( remember those sins of omission that still nobody will discuss?).... the only difference is I know it and you don’t. This is how “ my side “ sees it .....again, no disrespect intended.God bless you,fine lady!

I asked you to use scripture. I certainly hope your own beliefs are based on scripture and not just on the word of Martin Luther who advocates to sin boldly. NO WHERE in the word of God does Jesus or any apostle teach that.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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I asked you to use scripture. I certainly hope your own beliefs are based on scripture and not just on the word of Martin Luther who advocates to sin boldly. NO WHERE in the word of God does Jesus or any apostle teach that.

Martin Luther means nothing to me.i happen to like his commentaries on Romans and Galations.with all due respect,if you do not understand what Luther meant by “ sin boldly” we are loving in two different universes.....tell you what, I’ll pray for you and you can pray for me...although everybody knows you need it MUCH more than me!.....lol , you know I like to tease you....God bless you!
 
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1stcenturylady

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Martin Luther means nothing to me.i happen to like his commentaries on Romans and Galations.with all due respect,if you do not understand what Luther meant by “ sin boldly” we are loving in two different universes.....tell you what, I’ll pray for you and you can pray for me...although everybody knows you need it MUCH more than me!.....lol , you know I like to tease you....God bless you!

Show me what you believe USING scripture.
 
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sparow

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It's all right there in scripture. Unfortunately, many see Romans 7 as the life of a Spirit-filled Christian. It's not. Paul is finishing his teaching on the law. Even though the law is holy, it was the sin in us that caused the battle of mind over flesh. And because of the sin in us, the flesh was strong, and could never please God. But now through Christ, He has given us His Own Spirit and killed our fleshly desires to sin. We are dead to sin.


Under the Law
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into CAPTIVITY TO THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! WHO will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD!


Don't you see this is a recollection of all BEFORE CHRIST about those under the law? The law, holy as it is, didn't make them holy, because they still had SIN in their heart, so there was a constant battle. And when the flesh overcame their mind and they sinned - they were CONDEMNED.

Under Christ

Romans 8:1There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are NOT IN THE FLESH but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 6: 1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who DIED TO SIN live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Martin Luther said to not only sin, but make your sins strong! That is the very opposite of Romans 6:1-2. Can't you see how devilish that teaching is???? Satan knows if he can get those claiming Christ to stay in sin, they are condemned. Even the demons believe and tremble. So who are you going to believe? Martin Luther or Paul?

I hope you know how much I care about you to write this long post to you. I haven't even had my tea yet!

Please study those scriptures. Let them speak to you. I don't want to hear from you until you pray and ask God to show you what HE MEANS, not what any man-Luther/woman-me says it means.

And I also don't want to hear from you unless you use scripture. And above all, don't use Romans 7. That would only prove you haven't studied. They were under the law. Christians, because we walk in the Spirit, are NOT under the law. If we actually have the Spirit that is. And those who claim Christ, but have no power not to sin, do not have the Spirit, and Paul says, don't belong to Christ. So this is important to you. Don't waste it.


Primarily, Satan works en-mass, God primarily works with the individual who is willing. "Under the Law" is a fabricated concept, for the children of God "in covenant with" is a better concept.

How does one keep the Law or be in covenant with? Does the person who stands around, hands in pockets, not doing ten things, keep the Law? Not doing something is like having an empty bag; not being satisfied with empty the person puts -6 eggs in the bag, but the bag still has nothing in it, so he puts -12 eggs in it but the bag is still empty. Jesus described this better with the parable of the talents.

The Law is not aa weight one carries on his shoulders but a platform or infrastructure from which he lives his life with righteousness increasing; woe is me.
 
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FireDragon76

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We both know why you don't want to. Lutherans are not know to actually study the Bible.

Blood Bought is not a Lutheran.

We have Bible studies at my church. We typically don't engage in lengthy Bible quotations on these forums because it's often just a waste of time and bandwidth.

We have a subforum here called Theologica Crucis if you want to ask question about what we believe, and we also have many books explaining why we believe what we do, including several I have recommended such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Bible-Martin-Luther-Introductory/dp/0801049172

this one is heavier reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Justificatio...4&sr=1-1&keywords=gerhard+forde+justification
 
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1stcenturylady

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Primarily, Satan works en-mass, God primarily works with the individual who is willing. "Under the Law" is a fabricated concept, for the children of God "in covenant with" is a better concept.

How does one keep the Law or be in covenant with? Does the person who stands around, hands in pockets, not doing ten things, keep the Law? Not doing something is like having an empty bag; not being satisfied with empty the person puts -6 eggs in the bag, but the bag still has nothing in it, so he puts -12 eggs in it but the bag is still empty. Jesus described this better with the parable of the talents.

The Law is not aa weight one carries on his shoulders but a platform or infrastructure from which he lives his life with righteousness increasing; woe is me.

Profound! I love it.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is so powerful, you can't just sit there with an empty bag.

29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.
 
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FireDragon76

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A link to Theologica Crucis:

Theologia Crucis - Lutherans

You're always welcome to ask questions about our religion there, as long as it's respectful and you come with a desire to learn, not debate.
 
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sparow

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I did read it. Death and renewal are a continuous process in the Christian life. We are therefore both declared righteous and yet sinful in this life.

I will be blunt. Instant sanctification is a dangerous doctrine that has caused deadly presumption in many. Hell no doubt has more than a few people who thought they were righteous by their own merits.

Death and renewal as a concept is where Israel fails and a remnant emerges and renews the covenant.

It is true no one alone can save themselves but the Blood of Christ, the blood of the lamb and repentance are as much a part of the Law as is "do not commit adulatory". A person who utilises the WAY of God does so according to their own merits.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Blood Bought is not a Lutheran.

We have Bible studies at my church. We typically don't engage in lengthy Bible quotations on these forums because it's often just a waste of time and bandwidth.

We have a subforum here called Theologica Crucis if you want to ask question about what we believe, and we also have many books explaining why we believe what we do, including several I have recommended such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Bible-Martin-Luther-Introductory/dp/0801049172

this one is heavier reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Justificatio...4&sr=1-1&keywords=gerhard+forde+justification

Let me ask you a question about the wine at your Lord's Supper. Is it fermented? Just curious. (Ok with me if it is.)
 
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FireDragon76

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Let me ask you a question about the wine at your Lord's Supper. Is it fermented? Just curious. (Ok with me if it is.)

We use both de-alcoholed and regular wine so we can try to accommodate everyone. Traditionally, Lutherans used normal wine.
 
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1stcenturylady

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We use both de-alcoholed and regular wine so we can try to accommodate everyone. Traditionally, Lutherans used normal wine.

Yes, I thought I remembered right. I went to a Lutheran service once and it was fermented. I've always thought it should be, but just before I asked you the question I wondered if I was right that it "should be."

So it has me searching the internet and I learned quite a bit in the last few minutes. I'm posting a new thread with what I've found, and lets see what responses I'll get. Come join in the fun.
 
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