Protestant beliefs

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 1stcenturylady, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. 1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +2,519
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    All Protestants who know church history knows that it was Martin Luther who is the father of Protestantism. Since then, many Protestant denominations have arisen with differing beliefs on grace and sin and salvation. They differ from the most liberal - sin so grace can abound, all the way to sinless perfection.

    Here is a letter from Martin Luther on his view. "Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger.

    Here is the letter in context. What are the views of your denomination, and what denomination is that. Thanks.

    If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner.
     
  2. HereIStand Regular Member Supporter

    +1,618
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Married
    Interesting. I've not seen that quote. Lutheran theology does stress assurance and justification, but it also allows for the possibility of losing faith. That isn't talked about much, or at least that was my experience in being LCMS Lutheran.
     
  3. RC1970 post tenebras lux

    +1,416
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Actually, there is a very big difference between what Luther taught and what Lutherans teach. Luther was much closer to Calvin on the doctrines of Grace, and the Lutherans are much closer to Arminius.
     
  4. Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

    +814
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    While I have not seen that quote, I have seen the phrase "sin boldly" attributed to Luther, so I suppose that amounts to the same thing listed above. Somehow I do not think that the Catholics and the Orthodox would think much of us "letting our sins be strong". Neither would some branches of Protestantism who emphasize holiness and living a life in accord with the Gospels. However, there are not very many Protestant groups left anymore who emphasize holiness.
     
  5. Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

    +729
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Century lady!!!! Great to see you again! Is it time to lock horns again ? Lol
    Luther went to far for even me at the end....I love his commentaries on Romans and Galations and I think his exposure of indulgences,etc in the Catholic Church were pleasing to God.much of what he said goes over the heads of some Believers.if one does not get what he meant about “sin boldly”——well, God bless them anyway...been through this too many times to debate again....have fun hating him and God bless you
     
  6. Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

    +7,601
    Catholic
    Single
    Interesting
    So Lutheran theology would be significantly younger then Protestantism
    Would you say that Lutheranism influenced Arminius or more the other way around?
     
  7. ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,163
    Non-Denom
    Private
    I consider the beginnings of Protestantism to be mostly about the breaking away from the Catholic Church and their doctrine and traditions.

    For me, he is remembered for that break more than his theology.
     
  8. 1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +2,519
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    Do prefer a particular denomination besides "Christian"? One that emphasizes holiness perhaps? Which one?
     
  9. HereIStand Regular Member Supporter

    +1,618
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Married
    Well, it all depends on how Luther is quoted. Certain quotes fit a theology of assurance. Others allow for the possibility of losing faith. Luther wrote, "In my judgment, we must believe in the mercy of God, but remain uncertain about our and others' future perseverance [in faith], or predestination. As he said: 'if you think that you are standing, watch out that you do not fall,' [1 Cor 10:12]".

    It's a little like quoting Augustine. If he's quoted one way, he sounds Presbyterian. Quoted another way he sounds Catholic.
     
  10. 1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +2,519
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    So what denomination's teaching do you prefer?
     
  11. 1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +2,519
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    His sis, So what denomination's teaching do you prefer?

    Blood Bought introduced me to this quote of Martin Luther, which I hadn't seen before. I'm curious what denominations are influenced by this belief, "sin boldly." One poster said Luther gravitated towards Calvin, whereas Lutherans, themselves, gravitated toward Arminius. Those two, Calvin and Arminius, seem to be the heads of the next big split in denominational genealogies.

    I guess I'd like to know what denominations fit which side...and is there a third or more after that.
     
  12. RC1970 post tenebras lux

    +1,416
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    The Lutheran Book of Concord was completed around 1580 when Jacobus Arminius was about 20 years old, so I would say that each of their thinking was at about the same time and was a result of a rejection of some of the tenets of Calvinism.
     
  13. PeaceB Well-Known Member

    +645
    United States
    Catholic
    Engaged
    They seem extremely similar to me, except that Lutherans seem to reject the idea of "irresistible grace." What other major differences are there?

    Good luck with that!
     
  14. Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

    +729
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I always refer to myself as a “Jesus man”. A free man in Christ....I agree with EVERTHING Harry Ironside said....check out Or google ironside gospel and you will see everthing I hold dear in Christianity. God bless you,fine woman
     
  15. com7fy8 Newbie Supporter

    +1,652
    Christian
    Single
    What possibly he means it to consider our sins to be a serious matter which indeed needed Jesus to die in order for us to have God's mercy.

    And I consider that I can commit adultery millions of times, by cheating on our Groom Jesus . . . by arguing, eyeballing women, and other things not faithful to Jesus. And by only using a woman to look at her, this can be a sort of murder, by not truly loving her, because love does not have me using anyone.

    So, whatever he really meant . . . I can get something out of it, of how God might mean it for me.

    Well, ones who were Catholic might have been saying Martin was sinning by doing what was not Catholic; so, for all I know, he could have meant to boldly do what the Catholics were criticizing but which was of God.
     
  16. Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

    +729
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Believe me....Luther said a lot worse things than “sin boldly “ lol
     
  17. RC1970 post tenebras lux

    +1,416
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Lutherans, by enlarge, reject double predestination, irresistible grace, limited atonement and perseverance of the saints (OSAS). The problem is, if you reject any of the five points, you would have to reject them all because they all are based on the same concept. Lutherans reject 3.5 of the five points of Calvinism.
     
  18. SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,786
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    What Luther is saying is to avoid thinking you are almost Jesus except for that time you drove your parents car without permission.
     
  19. Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

    +814
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    I do not really prefer a particular denomination. I like aspects of many different groups. I was speaking in a general sense.
     
  20. Episaw Always learning

    +371
    Non-Denom
    Married
    AU-Liberals
    I am not so sure Luther was the father of Protestantism. Yes, he presented the Catholic Church with his 95 theses but he never left the Catholic Church and he did not disown his leadership in it.

    His main purpose was to challenge indulgences which were being used to make money and not always for the Catholic Church. Some used them to pocket the money for themselves.

    He never challenged the hierarchy, transubstantiation, or the place of the priesthood in the church. From what I have read it was another priest in Germany who took up Luther's thoughts and started the breakaway from the Catholic Church.

    Having done that he took a lot of the church with him as the Protestant Communion is nothing more than an expression of the Catholic Mass, the Pastor is nothing more than an expression of the Catholic Priest, church leaders dressing up to lead meetings is nothing more than the Catholic regalia to show the superiority of the chosen few and denominations are nothing more than various branches of the Catholic Church.

    So what we really have is a variation on the Catholic Church but not a true protestant church except in a few circumstances, mainly churches that meet in the home as the New Testament Church did.