Protestant America has forgotten where it came from

masmpg

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Here is a very long, but revealing video that shows what Protestantism is and where it came from. This video quotes such pillars of faith like Dwight L.Moody, Charles Spurgeon, and many others to show what humanity came out of during the dark ages, which we are running back into. This is a non denominational video that thrills my heart when I watch it.

I will be adding more videos soon.

 

Archie the Preacher

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In fact, the Christian Church in the U. S. have a fairly good idea of from where it and the United States came.

The anti-God people are trying very hard to cover up from where.

The 'half committed' sort of wander in a politically correct stupor.
 
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masmpg

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In fact, the Christian Church in the U. S. have a fairly good idea of from where it and the United States came.

The anti-God people are trying very hard to cover up from where.

The 'half committed' sort of wander in a politically correct stupor.

Why is Protestant America joining with all other world religions under a guise of unity at the expense of doctrine?
Please watch this short video.

 
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Paul Yohannan

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Some thoughts:
  • The US was founded on the principle of freedom of religion, and from the start included Catholics. Maryland was originally founded by Lord Baltimore as a refuge for Catholics persecuted in Britain under the Protestant regime. Thus calling the US a "Protestant Republic" is quite wrong. The Dutch Republic was a Protestant Republic.
  • The healing of the schism between the Protestant churches and Rome does not mean that the raison d'etre for Protestantism is being forgotten, it means rather that by and large most of the grievances raised by the Protestants have been addressed.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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History agrees with you, Paul. There was no official religion and various groups - mostly Christians of one flavor or another and I believe some communities or loose knit groups of Jews - were the main stays.

We - the United States - have never been a "Christian nation" as such, but have always - until after the Second World War - been a nation of Christians (by and large).

Orthodox and others: Happily, we're not attempting to kill each other much these days. Many issues have been removed and retired, again happily. However, I think the one issue that will not be resolved is the authority of the Bishop of Rome. The same applies to the authority of any one man as being the particular and exclusive representative for God.

I doubt any of the Orthodox groups will change position (as a group, anyway); and I equally doubt any other group will decide to follow such a person.

But I think 'we' can all agree to serve God and God's kingdom even in different styles, manners and functions. Dear God, let it be so.
 
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Paul Yohannan

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History agrees with you, Paul. There was no official religion and various groups - mostly Christians of one flavor or another and I believe some communities or loose knit groups of Jews - were the main stays.

We - the United States - have never been a "Christian nation" as such, but have always - until after the Second World War - been a nation of Christians (by and large).

Orthodox and others: Happily, we're not attempting to kill each other much these days. Many issues have been removed and retired, again happily. However, I think the one issue that will not be resolved is the authority of the Bishop of Rome. The same applies to the authority of any one man as being the particular and exclusive representative for God.

I doubt any of the Orthodox groups will change position (as a group, anyway); and I equally doubt any other group will decide to follow such a person.

But I think 'we' can all agree to serve God and God's kingdom even in different styles, manners and functions. Dear God, let it be so.

You do realize the Orthodox are not in communion with and do not recognize the Pope, right?
 
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Archie the Preacher

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You do realize the Orthodox are not in communion with and do not recognize the Pope, right?
Yes. I know they do not acknowledge the authority of the Pope over their Church.

And to all others: Nor should anything I said be understood as attempting to start a fight. And if I said something somewhat amiss, it was an honest mistake and without ill intent.
 
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Light of the East

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But I think 'we' can all agree to serve God and God's kingdom even in different styles, manners and functions. Dear God, let it be so.

I wish to disagree with you, kindly and with charity, but firmly nonetheless. There is nothing in Scripture in which either Jesus or Paul speaks of the establishment of numerous sui juris "churches" each with its own leadership and with different doctrines and moral teachings. Throughout the Sacred Scriptures, going all the way back to Genesis, we see God selecting a certain person or a certain group and establishing His covenant with them - not with the whole world. The understand of the scriptures is that those who wished salvation and a relationship with God came to Him on His terms, and not their own, which is what Protestantism is.

God establishes His covenant with Abraham as the covenantal head on earth, with the promise that through him shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. We see later that if one wishes to enter into covenant relationship with God, it is done in one way and one way only - circumcision. God later expands this relationship so that a nation is created, a covenant people who are to offer to anyone who comes freely, the gift of covenant with God through circumcision.

Now here is something important to note: in the desert, as the covenant people are formed under Moses and given their directions for worship, God says something to Moses that Protestants should have taken note of.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount

Note that word "admonished." That is a strong warning that the worship patterns that God gave to Moses were not to be tampered with by human ideas of right and wrong. There was no idea of "well, I don't like circumcision, so I'll replace it with salvation by faith alone" or "Offer an animal? How very gory. I think I'll offer some fruit instead." God said "Do it this way - or else!"

Fast forward to Christ and the New Covenant. Jesus said that the nation of Israel would be replaced for their acts of malice towards the Son of God (Matthew 21: 33-46). This new congregation which replaced Israel of the Old Covenant is called "the Church" and by the second century, was called "katholicos" or "universal." That is worth noting, because again, the Apostles, following the teaching of the Lord, established worship norms which were the same wherever you went in the empire. So unified was this teaching that by the end of the second century, St. Vincent of Lerins said that the katholicos faith was "that which is taught everywhere, at all times, and by all people."

There was no deviation - until the Roman Rite added to the Creed and thus broke the chain of universality. Then 500 years later, that breakaway from the universal church got up a real head of steam when Protestantism took off in so many directions it was like watching a feather pillow be thrown into a fan!

Why is uniformity in worship and practice so important? Because proper worship is a reflection of eternal worship:

Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The Temple and its worship was a pattern of things in heaven. So is Orthodox worship. So was the Mass, even up to Vatican II, when the Protestants at VII basically wrecked it. There is a reason that worship is done in a certain way, and if you are not doing it that way, then you are not a "figure of the true."

Protestant worship: no incense (Rev. 8: 3-4) a symbol of our prayers rising to God.
no candles (Rev. 2:5) symbolic of Christ, the Light of the world
no Eucharist (John 6: 54) a command of Christ for all generations
no baptism into the covenant community, which replaces circumcision as the rite of covenant entrance (Col. 2: 12-13) and union with Christ. (Romans 6:3)
no priests, who are mediators between God and man and have the authority given to them to forgive sins (John 20:23)
no altars in their congregational houses (Rev. 6:9, 8:3, etc)
no special garments for the priests, symbolizing God's authority upon them.
no honor to the Theotokos (Rev. 12: 1-5) the God bearer.

Instead of these and other things, which go back to the time of the origination of the Christian faith, there have been substituted man's ideas, some of them, such as in the Bob Jones Fundamentalism out of which I came, downright ridiculous, such as no going to movies or long hair on men or drinking any kind of spirit beverage.

Jesus said that it is His desire that all His followers be one - not hundreds or thousands, and certainly not with hundreds of different doctrines and moral teachings. He said that by our unity the world would know that the Father has sent Him.

No wonder the pagans and pragmatic atheists don't listen to us!
 
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Light of the East

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Like I said...

Light, I will pray for you as a servant of God and as my Christian brother. Good fortune and may God bless you.

Thank you for your kind response. The Church which Jesus established upon the Apostles waits for you and me (I am not quite Orthodox yet, but getting there). I pray we may both find it and the joy of being in it.

May God bless you - real good!!!
 
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Shane R

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Where did Protestant America come from? Scots Presbyterians, Quakers, Puritans, Methodists, and Baptists. But what did they become? Something about the American experience birthed a motley crew of Restorationists, Revivalists (holiness groups), and sects like the Russellites and various Adventist/Sabbattarian groups. Then there was the Mormons. Still later, the Pentecostals. And on and on as groups merged, faded, evolved, devolved, and split. It is a messy and complicated history and partially an immigrant tale. A Protestantism shaped not by the European scholar, but the country parishioner - more folk religion than scholastic religion.
 
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masmpg

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Where did Protestant America come from? Scots Presbyterians, Quakers, Puritans, Methodists, and Baptists. But what did they become? Something about the American experience birthed a motley crew of Restorationists, Revivalists (holiness groups), and sects like the Russellites and various Adventist/Sabbattarian groups. Then there was the Mormons. Still later, the Pentecostals. And on and on as groups merged, faded, evolved, devolved, and split. It is a messy and complicated history and partially an immigrant tale. A Protestantism shaped not by the European scholar, but the country parishioner - more folk religion than scholastic religion.

God still has one church. His church, which I consider the invisible church is comprised of all Christians, who not only give lip service to the profession, but actually do what the bible tells us, as Christians to do. They are found in every denomination and many sects in the world. The church has been so watered down through the centuries that it cannot be distinguished from the world. There is no single denomination that is "God's" "true" church no matter what creeds and dogmas state! God's holy word the KJV bible is full of diverse groups and peoples from all walks of life that was, is, and will be what makes up God people.
 
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God still has one church. His church, which I consider the invisible church is comprised of all Christians, who not only give lip service to the profession, but actually do what the bible tells us, as Christians to do. They are found in every denomination and many sects in the world. The church has been so watered down through the centuries that it cannot be distinguished from the world. There is no single denomination that is "God's" "true" church no matter what creeds and dogmas state! God's holy word the KJV bible is full of diverse groups and peoples from all walks of life that was, is, and will be what makes up God people.


Read Post # 11. The idea of an "invisible church" is a fond Protestant invention, a theological novum invented in the 16th century. It does not exist.
 
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masmpg

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Read Post # 11. The idea of an "invisible church" is a fond Protestant invention, a theological novum invented in the 16th century. It does not exist.

Yeah, I know, I use to be an alter boy! You actually think that the catholic church is the only one where salvation comes from, when much of their doctrinal creeds are not even found in God's holy word the KJV bible.

All I say is that there will be people saved from all denominations and even all sects in the world. You turn my comment into an argument about some "invisible" church. You have no clue what the "invisible" church is!
 
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Light of the East

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Yeah, I know, I use to be an alter boy! You actually think that the catholic church is the only one where salvation comes from, when much of their doctrinal creeds are not even found in God's holy word the KJV bible.

All I say is that there will be people saved from all denominations and even all sects in the world. You turn my comment into an argument about some "invisible" church. You have no clue what the "invisible" church is!

My comment stands. I was a Presbyterian Calvinist. I know what the teaching of the "invisible church" is all about and I know why the Reformers invented it.

Type in the words "invisible church" in an online Bible search engine and see what you get. Funny how you "sola scriptura" types never have a problem with making things up for the scriptures when it suits your need to fit your unbiblical theology!
 
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Albion

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Read Post # 11. The idea of an "invisible church" is a fond Protestant invention, a theological novum invented in the 16th century. It does not exist.
That's the line so cherished by Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Catholics, Seventh Day Adventists and others, but of course each of them (and some others) thinks it is that only true church body.

The church Christ founded and which is described in the NT had no denominational identity. It indeed was and is the sum of all true believers, known only to God, and representing all time periods and locations. Because they are not physically assembled at a single place and time, but because the church is nevertheless real, we call it the "invisible" church.
 
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That's the line so cherished by Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Catholics, Seventh Day Adventists and others, but of course each of them (and some others) thinks it is that only true church body.

The church Christ founded and which is described in the NT had no denominational identity. It indeed was and is the sum of all true believers, known only to God, and representing all time periods and locations. Because they are not physically assembled at a single place and time, but because the church is nevertheless real, we call it the "invisible" church.

It is understandable that you, being Anglican, would want with all your heart to believe this nonsense. When the Church is spoken of in Scripture, it speaks of a visible entity with one and one only location, one and one only set of doctrines which came from the Apostles, and one and one only hierarchical structure.

In the Old Covenant, that visible entity was Israel. They had a specific place of worship and specific worship rubrics which were given Moses in the wilderness. There was no idea of assemblies independent of national Israel setting up their own little store front "churches" and claiming to be one with God because of some mythological "invisible church." In fact, those who tried it found out that God was not happy with such rebellion. Do the names Dathan, Abihu, and Korah ring a bell with you? They decided to set up their own form of worship and the ground opened up and swallowed them. You should be thankful you live in the mercy of the New Covenant.

The same is true of the New Covenant Church. When the word "church" (eklessia) was spoken of in the first 15 centuries, everyone knew exactly what was being spoken of - the visible buildings run by a visible hierarchy with a specific and established liturgical format. In the East, that was the Orthodox Church. In the West, it was the Catholic Church.

No such nonsense as an "invisible church" existed until the need for it arose because of the rebellion of the Protestants against the authority established on earth in the form of the Church on earth. If you are going to convince people to rebel against God's order, you first have to make up some nice story that the dumb wingnuts will buy so they are not afraid of rebelling against authorized leadership.

Hence, the fable of the "invisible church."

Of course, it goes even deeper than this. How, pray tell, does an "invisible church" confect and administer the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist, which Jesus said gives us eternal life? (John 6). Not a problem once you trash 1500 years of Christian teaching for the faux idea of "saved by faith alone," thus making the Sacraments of no value whatsoever.

How does an invisible Church administer discipline to the members. Well, obviously it can't, can it? Jimmy Swaggart can play with hookers in a hotel and who is going to excommunicate him? Jimmy and Tammy Faye Bakker can rob people blind and create sex orgies and there is no accountability at all, is there? Just go start another "church" when you get caught, and there will be a good size handful of suckers to keep right on sending you money.

And how do you know you are part of the "invisible Church" if you have no idea where it is? Oh.....I KNOW!!! Because you "believe in Jaaaaaayzuz," right? Problem is that believing in Jesus can mean just about anything and you can believe any nonsensical whim that appeals to your itching ears. The proof of this is that we have people right here in in CF whose cheese fell off their crackers a long time ago, spouting off some of the most heretical and nonsensical stuff you can imagine, people of whom the Early Fathers would book a reservation in hell for their heresy, but because they "believe in Jaaaaaaayzuz" as the most bottom line denominator, they can believe they belong to the Church when they distinctly do not.

God said that "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft." Not a pretty sight, but the very foundational action upon which the entire Protestant rebellion is founded. Yes, the Church in the West had become decadent and corrupt, but according to Scripture, rebellion was not the answer. How did Luther and Calvin read the Scriptures, being good "sola scriptura" boys that they were, and utterly miss this statement about rebellion?Was God somehow so exhausted by the corruption in the Catholic Church that He just couldn't answer prayers anymore?

There is one Church....started in the first century by Jesus and put under the authority of the Apostles. All who are in that Church hold to the same teachings that the Apostles taught. New theology, breaking away from the organized Church which has succession directly from the Apostles, or other acts of rebellion, such as defying the Holy Father and declaring yourself to be the leader of the Church in England because you don't get the answer your selfish little heart wants regarding your marriage, are acts which sever you from the Church and make you an outcast, just as those who refused to be circumcised were "cut off" from the people of Israel.

You need to take the blinders off your eyes, son!
 
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