Prosperity question.

[RaymondG]

There is only one gospel.

True, I was just using the terminology everyone else was.....I should have placed them in quotes instead, and just accepted any claims of passive aggressiveness that would have results from such.

There are a great many doctrines that I've only heard and used here on CF.

Some people cherry pick verses to lean their own way.

Yes, I believe most do......we just agree with this method if the user agrees with us and then point out the cherries if they dont.

But it would be hard to maintain readability, if all were forced to quote the whole bible for every point made...... so Im not against quoting one or two verses when making points.

But Jesus wasn’t rich in earthly things, nor did He desire earthly riches.

Interestingly, I dont think about the material wealth of the Jesus or the disciples when reading the gospels.....only the words of life.

He talked about His Kingdom, which is in heaven. He said that is His home and this earth is not His home, otherwise He would reign as King here.

Amen.....I question why so many are so concerned with how they and others live on earth. My goal is to be so focused on heaven that I dont even notice the mansion you live in or porche you drive. If i have time to think about them.....Im not doing enough to make Heaven my home.

Your use of the phrase poverty gospel doesn’t exist. If you are talking about God’s Children who in obedience and love look forward to and live for the heavenly Kingdom that Christ also said is our home, as co-heirs with Christ to the Father. Than that is what it is. Those who value some thing more than is of this earth.

I believe the poverty and prosperity gospel are man made doctrines used to summarize a group of thought. We are to live in prosperity.....or we are to live in poverty only having what we need.

But there is a common theme.......Focus on money and material wealth........one side make sure they have too much, and the other makes sure they never have more than enough.

Both seem to serve mammon.....

 

[messianist]

now
56:59
Reggie Yates Extreme South Africa s01e03 ~ The Millionaire Preacher

 

[YeshuaFan]

There is a prosperity gospel, and a poverty gospel.....I find that both can use scripture to their benefit and the words will seem to agree with both sides, according to the interpretations given. So it would be fruitless to try and persuade either side.

I say come out from among them both of them, and stand in liberty. You should be able to try each side and see whether it be truth....... So there is no reason to get angry at one another for believing a doctrine.....they will soon find out and be changed on their own. But woe to those who must first die, to see if their belief is correct... unfortunately, these are the doctrines that are most powerful....for they require one to go to their grave finding out if it was true......

God, thru Paul, told us that real spirituality is to learn godly contentment, as we can be blessed b y God whether we have a lot of wealth, or very little, whether in perfect health, or dealing with sickness!

 

[messianist]

 

[YeshuaFan]

I'm just curious. For those who seem to take delight in making light of anyone who might be wealthy or even if they do own a mansion type home.....are you saying the only ones who start businesses, own them, do well, and prosper shouldn't be doing so at all? Is it possible to be Christian millionaire? Is it wrong to be one? If you start a business isn't it usual to normally want it to expand and prosper which would mean what some would call being wealthy?

Should Christians be more so employees as compared to employers to make sure your motives stay right? Is it wrong for someone to be a top CEO of a company and be awarded in an equivalent way as compared to other CEO's of other firms? Is it wrong for such one to fly first class as compared to the lower priced tickets? Is it wrong for a Christian who became wealthy to own a few properties?

Is it wrong for them to have investments in the stock market? Is it wrong for them to travel the world lets say doing things like going on a world cruise? Is spending money on anything luxurious a sin? Where exactly do people like Job fit in which the Bible says he was the richest man in all the east and after his trials of losing much the Bible says God increased him twice as much even going into great detail giving an itemized list of his wealth. Job 42: 10-17

Or like Abraham of whom God prospered as well describing him as very rich. Gen 13:2 I mean where in your opinion do all these things fit in? I understand the motives of the heart determines things but what about all these many type questions? Appreciate to hear what people might say.

I am not against any Christian working hard and being honest and receiving financial blessings from God, just do not find it a promise that God MUST make all saints healthy wealthy and prosperous though!

 

[messianist]

https://dai.ly/x2wiwrx

 

[YeshuaFan]

"Legit needs" can be pretty sparse.

Indeed, but we here in America have way too many excesses that we deem as legit needs! We can only afford say basic cable, and most of the world has no tv!

 

[messianist]

sorry guys ignore post 102 & 104 I have managed to get the right link up on post106, this is worth a watch on many levels.

 

[RaymondG]

God, thru Paul, told us that real spirituality is to learn godly contentment, as we can be blessed b y God whether we have a lot of wealth, or very little, whether in perfect health, or dealing with sickness!

I like it. And those who are content, usually do not study the material possessions of their neighbors, do they?

 

[Tigger45]

 

[W2L]

So where does proverbs 13:22 apply?
The Issue is not how much of the world do you posses, but how much the world things posses you.
Matthew 16:19 gives basic principles of laying up treasures in heaven and not earth.the next verses give the reasons and the two can't be divorced (principle and reason). Moth and rust decay and thieves can break in and steal. 1 John 2;16 warns us of the lust of the eyes and flesh. The issue is lust. Whereas money comes with its woes, scripture continuously tells us to guard our hearts against the love of money. God is sufficient. For a Christian who has ammased wealth, a mansion may not be an idol but to the onlooker, it may seem so. Just like you buying items at target may be nothing but to a poor person living on less than a dollar per day, it means the world. The issue is not money, it's the love of it. My mother was a devout Christian(bless her soul) who amassed wealth but took care of orphans. She built a mansion not for herself but to take care of as many people as she could in one place and still have great family time. She didn't go around flashing money or cars etc. having grown up in a mud-house, she always wanted to live in a huge house and she did. The rest of her wealth, she donated to churches and orphans. Should I judge her? No.

I have a hard time understanding why anyone can live in luxury while children suffer in this world, digging in garbage dumps for cans and bottles which isnt enough to feed them. 3 million children die each year of malnutrition. Right now as we speak one is probably dying.

 

[W2L]

I'm just curious. For those who seem to take delight in making light of anyone who might be wealthy or even if they do own a mansion type home.....are you saying the only ones who start businesses, own them, do well, and prosper shouldn't be doing so at all? Is it possible to be Christian millionaire? Is it wrong to be one? If you start a business isn't it usual to normally want it to expand and prosper which would mean what some would call being wealthy?

Should Christians be more so employees as compared to employers to make sure your motives stay right? Is it wrong for someone to be a top CEO of a company and be awarded in an equivalent way as compared to other CEO's of other firms? Is it wrong for such one to fly first class as compared to the lower priced tickets? Is it wrong for a Christian who became wealthy to own a few properties?

Is it wrong for them to have investments in the stock market? Is it wrong for them to travel the world lets say doing things like going on a world cruise? Is spending money on anything luxurious a sin? Where exactly do people like Job fit in which the Bible says he was the richest man in all the east and after his trials of losing much the Bible says God increased him twice as much even going into great detail giving an itemized list of his wealth. Job 42: 10-17

Or like Abraham of whom God prospered as well describing him as very rich. Gen 13:2 I mean where in your opinion do all these things fit in? I understand the motives of the heart determines things but what about all these many type questions? Appreciate to hear what people might say.

Imagine the church going on a world cruise while children die in poverty. Does this sound right to you?

 

[Bobber]

Imagine the church going on a world cruise while children die in poverty. Does this sound right to you?

No it doesn't in the way you're saying it. But are you saying it's absolute law to you that if someone had a dream of seeing the world God would shun them for having such a desire and totally not approve? Would you say absolutely some one should be rebuked for taking a vacation that costs more than just a couple of dollars? Do you vacation any where yourself more than just a few miles from your home?

 

[Sparagmos]

The question is......Do they feel that they are poor, or is you saying that they are poor because of there outward appearance?

Those who dont desire riches and, therefore, do not acquire them are not poor.

Huh? I mean people who work really hard and don’t have enough money to feed their kids healthy food, have health insurance, and in a couple of instances live under a bridge. Poor.

I have no idea what you are saying about desiring riches.

 

[W2L]

No it doesn't in the way you're saying it. But are you saying it's absolute law to you that if someone had a dream of seeing the world God would shun them for having such a desire and totally not approve? Would you say absolutely some one should be rebuked for taking a vacation that costs more than just a couple of dollars? Do you vacation any where yourself more than just a few miles from your home?

A dream? No thats not wrong. Letting children dig in garbage dumps, is that wrong?

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Prosperity preachers say God wants us to be rich, having an abundance of wealth. However Jesus said not to store money on earth but in heaven. How do prosperity proponents explain this? How can i have wealth if im not storing it on earth? If i build a luxurious mansion, am i following Jesus command that says not to store wealth on earth?

They are painfully obviously bad.

No one should have any doubt about it.

They see and teach, that the way of the truth, is a way to make money.

False prophets see what people want to believe, and tell them that. They pay them money for this.

 

[W2L]

They are painfully obviously bad.

No one should have any doubt about it.

They see and teach, that the way of the truth, is a way to make money.

False prophets see what people want to believe, and tell them that. They pay them money for this.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Bobber]

A dream? No thats not wrong. Letting children dig in garbage dumps, is that wrong?

And you don't think it possible to do both? Feed the poor and have a vacation to an interesting place? Ever?

 

[W2L]

And you don't think it possible to do both? Feed the poor and have a vacation to an interesting place? Ever?

Whenever you're on vacation, imagine those kids digging in garbage dumps and also the 3 million who die of malnutrition each year. Now imagine the Love you could have shared instead. He who sows sparingly will reap sparingly.

 

[Bobber]

Indeed, but we here in America have way too many excesses that we deem as legit needs! We can only afford say basic cable, and most of the world has no tv!

Good point. But there are pressures those in North America have which are real which puts them in a different type of poverty. Different type of stresses. Members of my church just came back from let's just say one of the southern islands on a missionary trip.

People were poor in the sense of how much money they ever can make a year in fact in a real true sense they don't have money to speak of....but they were happy, grow crops, live off the land and weren't famished...of course that'd depend on where you go.

North Americans ARE POOR or a different way. Many can't find jobs, they can't even live off the land for homes aren't designed any more with gardens in mind (as they were in the 40's) like my parents home was. Young people are in debt up to their ears for education and the list can go on and on.