Prosperity gospel, the wrong motivation?

Pethesedzao

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Spiritual prosperity yes. Look at the apostle Paul, he thrived in times of being naked and hungry, as well times of abundance. But did Paul make millions of dollars selling his teaching? Did he buy a huge luxurious mansion? No

1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; 30 and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; 31 and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away.
Most Christians don't fully understand what prosperity is. Remember that Joseph was a prosperous man yet he was in prison. Prosperity involves spirit soul and body. Prosperity is not about having masses of material wealth...
 
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W2L

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Most Christians don't fully understand what prosperity is. Remember that Joseph was a prosperous man yet he was in prison. Prosperity involves spirit soul and body. Prosperity is not about having masses of material wealth...
Prosperity gospel proponents often use Solomon's wealth as an example of Godly prosperity. The problem is that we cant all be rich like him, so i disagree with using him as an example. The only ones i see getting rich are the ones who work for it or sell books like prosperity preachers do.
 
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topher694

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Let me start by saying this: "Sow $100.00 into my ministry and you will receive blessing X, sow $1000.00 and you will receive blessing Y" is wrong. Treating God like a vending machine that will give you whatever you wish (especially while ignoring growing and becoming more Christ-like) is wrong.

That being said. Just because some abuse the truth, doesn't mean we should refuse the truth.

I am going to respectfully challenge folks to reconsider using "Prosperity Gospel" or "Prosperity Preachers" and the like as negative terms. Because, the concept of prosperity and blessing is very much biblical. It is everywhere. Jesus talked about it, Paul talked about it, old Testament, new Testament. The problem is, so many apply a worldly definition of prosperity to the biblical concept. So why should we let the abusers get to define the word/concept for the rest of us?

As others alluded to here, prosperity is not a bad word. The Hebrew word for "prosper" translates to: To advance, to make progress, to succeed, or to be profitable (financially). Notice that financial prosperity is last on the list (but it is there). To say prosperity is bad is to say advancing the kingdom of God is bad, or making progress in our Christian walk is bad, or succeeding in overcoming the enemy is bad. All because some people focus on the wrong part?

Listen, I believe God is ok with people being financially blessed, I truly do. What kind of gospel would we be promoting if we told everyone they had to be in poverty to follow Jesus. But, BEFORE we are financially prosperous, He wants us spiritually and emotionally prosperous... He wants our hearts right.

Think about it like this: would you consider it a blessing if God gave you 1 million dollars right now. But that money lead to you losing your marriage, your relationship with your kids, to backslide away from God, and ultimately causing you to be in greater debt than you were before you got the money? I wouldn't call that blessing or prosperity, but it happens quite often to lottery winners and folks who receive large inheritances.

God loves a cheerful giver. Why because He knows that money is the most common thing that can steal our hearts away from Him. But when we can truly give cheerfully we begin to free ourselves to give our hearts completely to Him... we begin to prosper spiritually, which starts us on the pathway of Him being able to trust us financially.

The word prosperity itself isn't bad. We just need our priorities straight. And that is no different than any other biblical principle.
 
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W2L

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Let me start by saying this: "Sow $100.00 into my ministry and you will receive blessing X, sow $1000.00 and you will receive blessing Y" is wrong. Treating God like a vending machine that will give you whatever you wish (especially while ignoring growing and becoming more Christ-like) is wrong.

That being said. Just because some abuse the truth, doesn't mean we should refuse the truth.

I am going to respectfully challenge folks to reconsider using "Prosperity Gospel" or "Prosperity Preachers" and the like as negative terms. Because, the concept of prosperity and blessing is very much biblical. It is everywhere. Jesus talked about it, Paul talked about it, old Testament, new Testament. The problem is, so many apply a worldly definition of prosperity to the biblical concept. So why should we let the abusers get to define the word/concept for the rest of us?

As others alluded to here, prosperity is not a bad word. The Hebrew word for "prosper" translates to: To advance, to make progress, to succeed, or to be profitable (financially). Notice that financial prosperity is last on the list (but it is there). To say prosperity is bad is to say advancing the kingdom of God is bad, or making progress in our Christian walk is bad, or succeeding in overcoming the enemy is bad. All because some people focus on the wrong part?

Listen, I believe God is ok with people being financially blessed, I truly do. What kind of gospel would we be promoting if we told everyone they had to be in poverty to follow Jesus. But, BEFORE we are financially prosperous, He wants us spiritually and emotionally prosperous... He wants our hearts right.

Think about it like this: would you consider it a blessing if God gave you 1 million dollars right now. But that money lead to you losing your marriage, your relationship with your kids, to backslide away from God, and ultimately causing you to be in greater debt than you were before you got the money? I wouldn't call that blessing or prosperity, but it happens quite often to lottery winners and folks who receive large inheritances.

God loves a cheerful giver. Why because He knows that money is the most common thing that can steal our hearts away from Him. But when we can truly give cheerfully we begin to free ourselves to give our hearts completely to Him... we begin to prosper spiritually, which starts us on the pathway of Him being able to trust us financially.

The word prosperity itself isn't bad. We just need our priorities straight. And that is no different than any other biblical principle.
Paul thrived in poverty. Why did he tell Timothy to be content with food and clothing?

1 Timothy 6:8 If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all [a]sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
 
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Pethesedzao

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Prosperity gospel proponents often use Solomon's wealth as an example of Godly prosperity. The problem is that we cant all be rich like him, so i disagree with using him as an example. The only ones i see getting rich are the ones who work for it or sell books like prosperity preachers do.
Behold a greater than Solomon is posting here
 
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W2L

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Behold a greater than Solomon is posting here
Jesus is greater than Solomon and He gave up everything. He also said this about wealth:

Matthew 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
 
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Pethesedzao

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Prosperity gospel proponents often use Solomon's wealth as an example of Godly prosperity. The problem is that we cant all be rich like him, so i disagree with using him as an example. The only ones i see getting rich are the ones who work for it or sell books like prosperity preachers do.
Abraham and Isaac were very very rich in material things...
 
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Pethesedzao

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Jesus is greater than Solomon and He gave up everything. He also said this about wealth:

Matthew 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Remember that Jesus had His own house...
 
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W2L

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Remember that Jesus had His own house...
Do you have a scripture that proves this?

Matthew 8:20 Jesus *said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the [t]air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”
 
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com7fy8

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so what gain is he referring to?
We discover, as we grow in Jesus who has it all. We share with Jesus and one another. Prosperity, then, includes sharing, not only possessing materials, as you have said.

And it is not about controlling and using people >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

"Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time---houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions---and in the age to come, eternal life." (in Mark 10:29-30)

"a hundredfold in this time" > including of people > mothers, sisters, children, brothers < family people.

With Jesus, if we leave all for Him and the gospel, we will receive "a hundredfold now in this time" of family people . . . for family loving and sharing, I can see. Our Christian prosperity, includes family sharing and caring with all our Jesus family people.

But this comes "with persecutions". We need to be strong in God's love so we can enjoy being with one another, able to forgive "even as God in Christ forgave you" (in Ephesians 4:32), and so we can stay this way during "persecutions". When God blesses us, Satan may be allowed to test us with the exact opposite, and then are we with God, ready for loving still?

Ones of our dearly cherished Jesus family will die before we do, and they will have different problems of what Satan is allowed to do with their unbelieving relatives and friends and to them, themselves. So, in order to do well with God's prosperity shared with us we need to grow in Jesus and His love's creativity so we can take good, godly advantage of all which will happen . . . like how Joseph did > Genesis 37-50 < helping save the lives of many people, but also reconciling with those brothers who sold him into slavery in Egypt.

Are we ready for love, with any and all people . . . like Jesus on the cross loving any and all, having hope for any person, at all? This comes with how our Father corrects and transforms our character to be godly in His love > so we have godliness of character.

This makes us intimate with God Himself and all-loving; this is great gain of godliness, I would say.
 
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topher694

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Paul thrived in poverty. Why did he tell Timothy to be content with food and clothing?

Because being content regardless of your current situation (good or bad) is a sign of spiritual prosperity.

10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at last your care for me has flourished again; though you surely did care, but you lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil 4:10-13

Paul learned (spiritual prosperity) to be content. This also answers the first part of your statement. Paul thrived in every situation he found himself in... in poverty AND riches (abased and abound... abound and suffer need). The point is that (as I mentioned) his financial situation is not what motivated or defined him.

Right after this Paul goes on to thank the Philippian church for their financial support in his time of need (prosperity) and pray that they would be blessed (prospered) because of it.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Why is it that prosperity preachers dont teach us to give out of love rather than material gain? Why is our motivation for giving so that we may receive material blessing rather than for sharing love with others? Is love not our motivation in these churches?
True riches are much more valuable

James 2:5. Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?”

1 Timothy 6:18. That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;”

Hebrews 11:26. Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.”

Colossians 3:16. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”

Ephesians 1:18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,”

Romans 11:33. “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!”

2 Corinthians 6:10. “As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.”


Matthew 6:19-21 “Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
 
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Anthony2019

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I find very little support in Jesus's teachings to promote the prosperity theology that is being discussed in this thread. Jesus consistently warned against pursuing financial riches and that it is a major stumbling block for those who wish to become His followers (Matthew 6:19-24, Matthew 8:20, Matthew 19:21, Mark 8:36, Mark 10:17-25). Jesus calls us to live humbly (Luke 14:7-35) where the first shall be last and the last shall be first (Matthew 19:29-30). The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus and the Sheep and The Goats should be a stark warning of the inevitable consequences of desiring riches, since where a person's heart is their treasure is also (Matthew 6:21).

Throughout the remainder of the NT, there is an admonition against pursuing and desiring wealth (1 Timothy 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Ephesians 5:5, 1 John 2:16, 2 Corinthians 8:9).

However I believe that we serve a generous God who is able and willing to meet all of our needs (Deuteronomy 2:7, Matthew 6:26). If someone is genuinely struggling with difficult circumstances, such as financial worries, I believe that God will always help those who approach Him in faith.
 
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fhansen

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Why is it that prosperity preachers dont teach us to give out of love rather than material gain? Why is our motivation for giving so that we may receive material blessing rather than for sharing love with others? Is love not our motivation in these churches?
The prosperity gospel is sheer nonsense promulgated by those who want your prosperity to be there's.
 
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Pethesedzao

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Do you have a scripture that proves this?

Matthew 8:20 Jesus *said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the [t]air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”
Several, and btw Jesus said that cos the Samaritan's wouldn't put Him up!
 
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Pethesedzao

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We discover, as we grow in Jesus who has it all. We share with Jesus and one another. Prosperity, then, includes sharing, not only possessing materials, as you have said.

And it is not about controlling and using people >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

"Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time---houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions---and in the age to come, eternal life." (in Mark 10:29-30)

"a hundredfold in this time" > including of people > mothers, sisters, children, brothers < family people.

With Jesus, if we leave all for Him and the gospel, we will receive "a hundredfold now in this time" of family people . . . for family loving and sharing, I can see. Our Christian prosperity, includes family sharing and caring with all our Jesus family people.

But this comes "with persecutions". We need to be strong in God's love so we can enjoy being with one another, able to forgive "even as God in Christ forgave you" (in Ephesians 4:32), and so we can stay this way during "persecutions". When God blesses us, Satan may be allowed to test us with the exact opposite, and then are we with God, ready for loving still?

Ones of our dearly cherished Jesus family will die before we do, and they will have different problems of what Satan is allowed to do with their unbelieving relatives and friends and to them, themselves. So, in order to do well with God's prosperity shared with us we need to grow in Jesus and His love's creativity so we can take good, godly advantage of all which will happen . . . like how Joseph did > Genesis 37-50 < helping save the lives of many people, but also reconciling with those brothers who sold him into slavery in Egypt.

Are we ready for love, with any and all people . . . like Jesus on the cross loving any and all, having hope for any person, at all? This comes with how our Father corrects and transforms our character to be godly in His love > so we have godliness of character.

This makes us intimate with God Himself and all-loving; this is great gain of godliness, I would say.
You're getting there!!
 
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Zetetica

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The adopted children of God are wealthy, not in money but in love. We are rich in spirit and the abundance of God’s outpouring grace and mercy. Truly, we are spiritual multi billionaires. Isn’t that the only wealth we should want for? Isn’t that the only true prosperity?
 
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lsume

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Why is it that prosperity preachers dont teach us to give out of love rather than material gain? Why is our motivation for giving so that we may receive material blessing rather than for sharing love with others? Is love not our motivation in these churches?
Thankfully we are not the judge. If you are a true Born Again Christian, you know that the prosperity talk is not of Christ. Christ is our Guide and our example to follow. Christ had no money that I’m aware of. Also, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into The Kingdom of Heaven. If you look up needle in Strong’s Concordance, it is a sewing needle and not a difficult passageway. After Christ Spoke of how hard it would be for a rich man, the disciples ask who then can be saved? Christ responded “With God all things are possible”. However, if one is wealthy and is trying to figure an angle around The Word, they are looking with the wrong intent.

You are right to stay away from any voice that Christ is not part of.
 
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topher694

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Christ had no money that I’m aware of.
Actually there is strong evidence Jesus was quite wealthy.

The wise men that brought him gifts are not like our nativities depict them, they would have brought at least 12 camels loaded with the gifts.

Jesus had a treasurer. You don't have a treasurer if you don't have treasure.

And there are other hints as well.

It wasn't that Jesus didn't have money - if nothing else he should have been well supported just being a rabbi - it was that he was so unmoved by money that people think he didn't have any... THAT is the lesson.
 
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