Propserity Gospel, Freemasonry, and Denials of Christian Teaching

[Fr. Rob]

Hi all.

I was wondering what the view 'round here was about the Properity Gospel, the the fact that many of the leading teachers of the Prosperity Gospel are Freemasons, and that some of them even deny basic Christian teachings.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Fr. Rob

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Fr. Rob
Hi all.

I was wondering what the view 'round here was about the Properity Gospel, the the fact that many of the leading teachers of the Prosperity Gospel are Freemasons, and that some of them even deny basic Christian teachings.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Fr. Rob

Who are the leading prosperty teachers that you claim are freemasons.  The leading one's I know are not.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

note-  I edited this as some took it the wrong way- Hobie

But seriously, we all have enough trouble defending the true things that we know about. If you don't like the prosperity gospel, Ok. Discuss the merits pro and con. Spreading stories demeans us all.

 

[Fr. Rob]

Originally posted by Quaffer


Who are the leading prosperty teachers that you claim are freemasons.  The leading one's I know are not.

Actually, I was browsing websites, and found it at http://www.bible.ca

Follow the "False Doctrines" link.

If this is not the truth, I would appreciate any information to debunk it.

Thanks,
Fr. Rob

 

[Fr. Rob]

Originally posted by hobart schmedly
Just kidding. But seriously, we all have enough trouble defending the true things that we know about. If you don't like the prosperity gospel, Ok. Discuss the merits pro and con. Spreading stories demeans us all.[/size] [/B]

As I noted in my previous post, the information I obtained is from www.bible.ca.

If it is not factual, I would appreciate correction.

However, I have heard Benny Hinn talk about his "ninefold diety" (which is noted on the bible.ca site), and I have heard Ken Copeland say that all men are little Gods.  The bible.ca site offers quotes that these individuals have said, and documents the day and time, as well as tape numbers if you want to order them.

Again, if there is a factual correction, especially written statements from the folks, I would appreciate reading it.

 

Fr. Rob

 

 

 

[Gerry]

33rd degree????? WOW! Right up there with the king of all devil worshippers Albert Pike, eh? And I see you like to shout! Wow! Of course, I am sure Albert did not mean what he said. Either that or did not know what he was talking about.

Oh well. I am not one to get into shouting matches and if you are a 33rd degree, I personally do not care what you believe or teach. God knows you, whether you know Him or not, and He knows your heart. All this is between you and God and you argue with Him.

Originally posted by hobart schmedly
Hmmm. yes I heard that. I am a 33rd level myself. You should see my hat!!!!

But I also heard that credible sources place both Hagin and Copeland on the grassy knoll on Nov 23 of 63. Think about it!

I mean Hagin is from Texas to start with, and Copeland was an entertainer at the time with probable ties to Jack Ruby and the Cuban gambling cartel. If you think about it, it all becomes clear. I mean it! It all works together!

Not to mention that Charles Capps was seen with Elvis at graceland just weeks ago, and they both were abducted by a UFO right after that!!!

THE CFR AND THE COMMUNISTS ARE ALL INVOVLED!!!!

THE POPE DID IT!!!!!

 

Just kidding. But seriously, we all have enough trouble defending the true things that we know about. If you don't like the prosperity gospel, Ok. Discuss the merits pro and con. Spreading stories demeans us all.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

33rd degree????? WOW! Right up there with the king of all devil worshippers Albert Pike, eh? And I see you like to shout! Wow! Of course, I am sure Albert did not mean what he said. Either that or did not know what he was talking about.

Oh well. I am not one to get into shouting matches and if you are a 33rd degree, I personally do not care what you believe or teach. God knows you, whether you know Him or not, and He knows your heart. All this is between you and God and you argue with Him.

somehow you missed the giant tongue in my cheek....

 

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Again - I edited this as some took it the wrong way - Hobie

Sorry... just hard to get worked up over such silliness when there is so much more to occupy my time with.  Any one of these "heretics" have done more for Christ and the people of God than all their critics combined.
As I read their critics, the word "envy" comes to mind.  Maybe just a little bitterness in there. Just a little to much zeal to see people hurt and not enough zeal to make sure what we are saying is true.
Did you know the scripture says that God hates gossip? It does! And gossip is the spreading of unfounded rumors and like stories. Why risk it? When there is so much truth that we have and so much good news to share, why spend one minute, one second, spreading stories that we cannot be sure are true. And even if they were true, why spend time spreading bad news when we have been called to spread the good news?
There are just so many reasons why doing this is wrong. If you have even been on the wrong end of such a smear campaign you will know what I am talking about. I had a friend a number of years ago who was such a victim. It got started by some of these same "protectors of God" folks that he was gay. Of course he was not, but that did not matter. Ever since he has been shunned and treated badly by the same people who have been called to love him. He used to teach Sunday school. No more! He had a bible study and even preached a couple times. Never again. A shame. A pitiful shame.
And then there is the family in the next town that was accused of sexually abusing their children. Do you know how impossible it is to defend yourself against such charges. It is virtually impossible. Even after such people are totally exonerated they carry that stigma with them. And very often it is the good "church" people who are the worst. It is a shame that this happens. We can prevent it if we are careful.

[/size]

 

[Havoc]

Well said Hobart.

Havoc

 

[Fr. Rob]

Originally posted by hobart schmedly
Shame on you! If you have this much energy, go find a homeless person and feed him. Have a bible study in your neighborhood. Use your time wisely.      Get a life.
[/size][/B][/size] [/B]

So, I come here to have a discussion and/or debate, in this particular instance surrounding a doctrine that I find evidence may be promoted by Masons. . . and I provide my source and ask for legitimate refutations. . . and now it's shame on me?

Unlike some of the folks who were quoted on the bible.ca site, some of whom I have heard on TV (I heard Paul Crouch on TBN ranting about "heresy hunters" myself), I happen to believe in a core deposit of faith and core doctrine in the Christian faith.  I do look for heresy, because, as a good Pastor, it is my duty to keep the members of my congregation away from false teachings and heresies.

If Ken Copeland, Paul Crouch, and the others are NOT freemasons, fine.  If they have been quoted out of context, fine.  Please show me.

And, so you will know, I do run bible studies, pastor a church, serve as a full time hospital chaplain, and dabble in Theology.  This isn't a good works competition.

I asked a question based upon the best information I had.  If I was flawed, show me the proof and I will retract my statement.

Fr. Rob

 

 

[DefenderOfPeter]

Hobart -

It does apear that you are worked up -

First - it is necessary to ask the questions that Fr.Rob is asking - It does not matter the size of the churchs or the wonders that they are working for their will be "angles of light" sent into the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Anyone associated with the freemasons is not christian - it is realy that simple.

We should be worried that these "angles of light" are decieving so many souls.

And finaly - the web is not the only place to find this stuff - it is available on TBN almost any hour of the day. The fact is that these people are not teaching or living the message of Christ -

The prosparity gospel is simply a disgusting perversion of Holy Scripture.

 

[DefenderOfPeter]

the way to damnation is a wide paved highway filled to the brim

the path to God is a narrow widing road that is traveled by few

which is Ken Copland and the prosparity gospels proponets teaching?

 

[Gerry]

A Mulitiude of words will never change ONE fact!

Originally posted by hobart schmedly
"As I noted in my previous post, the information I obtained is from target=_blank>www.bible.ca."


Wellllll.... if you got if from a "Web-site" then I guess that settles that! Call the ATF, FBI, IRS, and the CIA!! cuz theys strange goins on sho-nuff! I seen it on a web-site!


"The bible.ca site offers quotes that these individuals have said, and documents the day and time, as well as tape numbers if you want to order them."

Right... I'll send in my 9.95 right away for them tapes decrying:  the selling of tapes for 9.95.

Sorry... just hard to get worked up over such silliness when there is so much more to occupy my time with.  Any one of these "heretics" have done more for Christ and the people of God than all their critics combined.
As I read their critics, the word "envy" comes to mind.  Maybe just a little bitterness in there. A little lust for blood. Just a little to much zeal to see people hurt and not enough zeal to make sure what we are saying is true.
Did you know the scripture says that God hates gossip? It does! And gossip is the spreading of unfounded rumors and like stories. Why risk it? When there is so much truth that we have and so much good news to share, why spend one minute, one second, spreading stories that we cannot be sure are true. And even if they were true, why spend time spreading bad news when we have been called to spread the good news?
There are just so many reasons why doing this is wrong. If you have even been on the wrong end of such a smear campaign you will know what I am talking about. I had a friend a number of years ago who was such a victim. It got started by some of these same "protectors of God" folks that he was gay. Of course he was not, but that did not matter. Ever since he has been shunned and treated badly by the same people who have been called to love him. He used to teach Sunday school. No more! He had a bible study and even preached a couple times. Never again. A shame. A pitiful shame.
And then there is the family in the next town that was accused of sexually abusing their children. Do you know how impossible it is to defend yourself against such charges. It is virtually impossible. Even after such people are totally exonerated they carry that stigma with them. And very often it is the good "church" people who are the worst. Kind of like this non-sense we are seeing here in this thread. 
Shame on you! If you have this much energy, go find a homeless person and feed him. Have a bible study in your neighborhood. Use your time wisely.      Get a life.

 

[DefenderOfPeter]

Mr. Schmedly,

Your rampage was completely uncalled for. Fr. Rob was simply asking a question. It apears to me that his desire was to see if these claims are unfounded prior to making final judgement on endorsing their ministries.

Sorry... just hard to get worked up over such silliness when there is so much more to occupy my time with. Any one of these "heretics" have done more for Christ and the people of God than all their critics combined.

The only one on in this thread that is getting worked up is you. I recomend that you step back and review what you have written. Does it demonstrate love for your fellow Christian brother.

As I read their critics, the word "envy" comes to mind. Maybe just a little bitterness in there. A little lust for blood. Just a little to much zeal to see people hurt and not enough zeal to make sure what we are saying is true.

How is exposing false doctrine "lust for blood?" We are charged as Christians to spread the Gospel, not destroy it, and if what this site says is true, then destroying the Gospel is just what they are doing. But they are doing it in such a way as to lead the sheep astray.

Did you know the scripture says that God hates gossip? It does! And gossip is the spreading of unfounded rumors and like stories. Why risk it? When there is so much truth that we have and so much good news to share, why spend one minute, one second, spreading stories that we cannot be sure are true. And even if they were true, why spend time spreading bad news when we have been called to spread the good news?

Christ also says "blessed are the peacemakers." Once again the atack on Fr. Rob is uncalled for - he is not makeing these charges - he is seeking clarification from a group that may know these people better than him.

There are just so many reasons why doing this is wrong. If you have even been on the wrong end of such a smear campaign you will know what I am talking about. I had a friend a number of years ago who was such a victim. It got started by some of these same "protectors of God" folks that he was gay. Of course he was not, but that did not matter. Ever since he has been shunned and treated badly by the same people who have been called to love him. He used to teach Sunday school. No more! He had a bible study and even preached a couple times. Never again. A shame. A pitiful shame.

I am sorry to hear about your friends situation. I happen to know from experience that men dressed in clerics are starred at by most people on the street. Those that are not bold enough just stare and other will call out "boy lover" "pervert" "sick o!" The majority of these men are loving gental servants of Christ. I also remind you that Christ says "blessed are those that are pursecuted because of me."

Shame on you! If you have this much energy, go find a homeless person and feed him. Have a bible study in your neighborhood. Use your time wisely. Get a life.

Who are you to level such a judgement. You do not know this man from Adam. Fr. Rob came to this board for clerification and what he is getting is slamed. If I were a moderator I would have you banned right now.

Just think of the time we would save if we did not have to deal with unfounded tirades. If someone would have simply answered his question the conversation would have ended.

I ask you to please consider what you say before you say it. As yourself "What would Christ say in this instance?" prior to posting such trash.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

...Fr. Rob was simply asking a question....

Please observe that this is a "question" with an accusation embedded in it: 

...was wondering what the view 'round here was about the Properity Gospel, the the fact that many of the leading teachers of the Prosperity Gospel are Freemasons, and that some of them even deny basic Christian teachings...

Kind of like asking "what do you thing about the fact Bob cheats on his wife?"

...The only one on in this thread that is getting worked up is you. I recomend that you step back and review what you have written. Does it demonstrate love for your fellow Christian brother...

If you will reread the post, you will find it is a parody, and not actual argument. No real anger there. But anger would be appropriate:

Pro 25:
23  The north wind driveth away rain: so doth an angry countenance a backbiting tongue

I suspect you have never really seen the suffering and pain endured by such gossip. Today gossip is one of the worst sins in the church. It runs rampid and goes virtually unchallenged. And in many cases the worst are the leaders who practice it, promote it, and overlook it.  Excuse it if you will, just be aware that you may be the next victim. Defend it at your own peril.

You do not know this man from Adam. Fr. Rob came to this board for clerification and what he is getting is slamed. If I were a moderator I would have you banned right now.


We saw him refer to it as a "fact" in the initial post, assume them guilty in further posts, and insist of proof of innocence rather than proof of guilt. He brought the accusation here dressed in a subtle "question", not I. I do not think he came here for clarification. He came here to spread the juicy stuff around a bit. Have a little fun at the expense of people who are not here to defend themselves. Get folks like you to jump on the band wagon and have a gossip party. Plain and simple. If the moderators of these boards want them used as platforms for lies, gossip, and slander, I suppose there is nothing I can do about it. If they want to ban me for standing up against it... so be it. (But be aware that internet providers have been sued for much less than what is said in these threads!)It will not be the first time! Someone has to stand up against this kind of thing. I OTOH, do not want anyone banned. Just stop people from gossiping and slandering. We can talk topics and issues long and hard. Just lay off people who are not here to defend themselves. That is gossip.. and that is slander. Maybe even false witnessing. Very dangerous. I suppose we shall see which way the wind blows here shortly. 

Fact is we already have several threads that are dealing with the questions of prosperity and such.  These discussions are civil(for the most part) and they are not digressing into sessions where individuals are being bashed. We are discussing topics, not defenseless individuals who are not here.

 

[LouisBooth]

*mod hat on* both of you need to cool off. Take a step back and realize that no one is getting gossiped about nor slandered. Their positions are being questioned.

*mod hat off*

 

[Andrew]

Fr Bob,

There's no such thing as a "prosperity Gospel". The is only one true Gospel of salvation -- and it includes prosperity as well as healing and protection. IOW properity is part of the Gospel. The derog term was coined by "heresy hunters".

Perhaps you can list the questions you have about prosperity in the Gospel rather than the people. Also, beware of "heresy hunter" sites that seek to destroy people and their ministries. A lot of it is based on misunderstndings and quoting out of context. Go to the source instead, for eg, go to the K Copeland website, subscribe to their free mag and read each issue for yourself to see what the ministry is doing and judge for yourself, rather than rely on a person or site who is deadly bias against them.

 

[LouisBooth]

*wonders why all the aposlites and Jesus were all poor if this "prosparity gospel" is correct*

 

[Gerry]

Oh, the answer I have received is that if you don't have it, it is because you don't believe it. I suppose either their faith was lacking or they simply enjoyed being poor.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

BTW, the only reason I seem to use larger than normal type font is because I have been informed that my posts (for some reason) sometimes display with very small letters(???) I am not "shouting", although I can see how one might think so.