Prophets?

[whatfor]

I have been reading "thus saith the lord " by John Bevere and I have question .

We have had quite a few so called prophets visit our church and I like everyone else loves hearing the words given.
The problem is the words are more like fortune telling and pleasing the desires of those given words.
There is very little if any correction and warning which seems to be the way prophets in the bible worked.
I have felt a strong presence of God when around them but am wondering if this is some other presence.

Any ideas?

 

[Svt4Him]

Have the words come true?

 

[tturt]

There may be others but primarily the differences between the ungodly and Godly is the source and the purposes.

One of the differences between the OT and NT prophets is now there are many prophets and they're to help equip the church (Eph 4:11). According to I Cor 14:3 "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." Edification can include correction but no matter what is to be said, it definitely falls under the umbrella of love (loving Yahweh and others as ourselves from Mark 12:3-31).

We define "the word of knowledge" (I Cor 12:8) is a prophetic word about what's going on now or happened previously. Then a "word of wisdom" (I cor 12:8) is something that is going to happen in the future - often this is a snapshot of how Yahweh sees you in the future. Hearing a word of knowledge usually inclines your ear to hear the word of wisdom then. But don't see where there will always be the two together. A prophetic word is "a" word or part of a whole (I Cor. 13:9), that's the reason the more prophecies you receive, the more complete the picture.

Some prophetic words received by prophets aren't to be shared with anyone but to be prayed about. Sometimes you'll receive instructions on what to do with words of knowledge and words of wisdom including if they're to delivered, then how.

You know when you hear the minister teach on a subject you've never heard before? You listen but you don't just accept it just because Pastor said it. You look in Scripture, pray about it and just let it "sit" there until you either accept it or reject it or put it on the back burner and it may sit there for a long time. That's the way some prophecies work. Granted some things are going to happen because it's Yahweh's will but at other times we have responsibilities.

I Thess 5:20-21 “Despise not prophesyings. 21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”

Despise not prophesyings is rather self explanatory.

Who is prophesying has responsibility but according to v 21 the folks being prophesied to have responsibilities also. This scripture is giving those instructions to the foks being spoken to prove, confirm or test what’s been said to them. Anyone who prophesies to you should want you to follow those instructions.

We have The Holy Spirit, Holy Scriptures, prayer, hearing God’s voice, spiritual discernment, and confirmation. Once all things have been proven, then we hold fast to that which is good (I Thess 5:21). Then Paul told Timothy to make good warfare over his personal prophecies (I Tim 1;18).

As far as a prophetic word always coming true and granted Yahweh can do whatever He wants but if it's prophesied that you will lay hands on the sick on another continent and they'll be healed, if you don't get a visa, it's probably not doing to happen.

So prophetic words' purposes are to edification, and exhortation, and comfort (I Cor 14:3).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The Scripture says that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. This means that prophecy should show us the heart of Jesus toward us. The effect of genuine New Testament prophecy is that it should draw us to Jesus and give us a new appreciation of what a wonderful Saviour Jesus is.

Accuracy is not a reliable indication of the genuineness of prophecy. Psychics can be amazingly accurate.

If you have niggling doubts about a prophet or a prophecy, stop and evaluate whether that doubt is a check in your spirit from the Holy Spirit or not. It may very well be,and when you wait on God, you may find out that the prophecy may not be from the Holy Spirit.

A prophecy can come from the Holy Spirit, or from the world, flesh or the devil. Here are my views about how to recognise which is which.

The world: This is to do with making material possessions, social status, prosperity, and similar the most important. For example, a prophecy promising you that you will have a bigger house, better car, higher income, a more important role in life or in the church, may very well originate from the world.

The flesh: This is to do with self improvement, self promotion, personal needs and desires. For example, prophecies to do with being a better person, being more holy, getting personal needs met, fulfilment of personal desires, issues to do with having babies or meeting a partner. Prophecies that cause you to put the prophet up on a pedestal, making you think that he is such a wonderful man of God. Prophecies like this can come from the flesh.

The devil: Anything that reveals sin, brings condemnation, contradicts the promises of God, generates fear and doubt, brings hurt and disappointment, especially with the church and God. These prophecies are more likely to be from the devil.

The Holy Spirit: His mission is to increase your dependence on Jesus and on God's promises in the Scripture. It will confirm something that God has said to you in private. It may reveal personal issues that no one knows about except God, but will encourage you to put your trust in Jesus to work them out. The devil can reveal personal issues that no one else knows about too, but he will use it to further depress and discourage you.

The test of a genuine prophecy is whether it makes you love Jesus more and strengthens your trust in Him, whatever issue that is presented to you in the prophecy.

The true prophet knows that he has nothing except what Jesus has given him. He will strongly discourage any attempt to put his name in lights or for people to have more regard for him than for Jesus. At the same time, he will not show a false humility either. He will be his natural self. He will appreciate positive feedback, because prophets need encouraging too. But he will encourage you to put more trust in Jesus than in himself.

Also, all prophecies, general or personal, should be recorded. Do not trust any prophecy if the person giving it does not allow it to be recorded. You would need to ask yourself why is there a resistance for a prophet to have his prophecies recorded? A genuine prophet would have no hesitation to be fully accountable.

So, with these prophets that visited your church, test them under the criteria that I have proposed, and see what comes out of that.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I am very dubious of so called wandering prophets. From my exprience I have onlly encountered charismatic fortune telling

 

[tturt]

For there to be the false, there has to be the authentic.

Oscarr, thank you for clearly stating those standards are "Here are my views..." on how prophetic words are to be judged. Of course, they are other folks standards as well. Yes, it's necessary to determine if a check in our spirit is from Yahweh or not - whether it's in church or not.

Based on the definition of exhortation, it can include correction - we've also discussed this numerous times before as well.

Wealth was promised to some people in the Bible. We have promises - Yahweh promises seed to the sower; after we delight ourselves in Yahweh, He will give us the desires of our hearts (Psa 37:4); "The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him (Prov 20:7), "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you (Matt 6:33), Deu 28:2 "And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. 3Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field." etc. Since Yahweh owns everything anyway, we can trust Yahweh that the provisions (spirit, soul, and body) to give to whomever He selects and it'll be the correct.

We all have our own standards or ideas as to whether a prophetic word is authentic or not. Hopefully, we've all checked them against Scripture and in the other ways to prove that which is good. Because we all can be very sure our experiences and conclusions are the authentic, genuine ones.

"...I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Rev 19:10)."

 

[Alive_Again]

All words are to be tested and what is of the Spirit adhered to. Sometimes a little encouragement goes a long way to loving us into full obedience. God does provide correction and I would think that would certainly be the case for me, as I do not always walk as I should. Nevertheless, God always encourages me in the areas I need. He could wallop me and I'd no doubt deserve it!

If the fruits make you closer to God and they want to change their lives by walking in a greater love, then edification and comfort are the way to go. The peace and presence and anointing of God are good standards to judge by when a word of prophecy is given. Just keep what ministers to the spirit.

The prophet's ministry is different in the New Covenant because all believers have the Holy Spirit in their lives.

God will send a prophet to give a warning about someone or even your country, but the primary role of prophecy in the New Testament church is to exhort, encourage, and edify. All believers are called to prophecy. This does not make you a prophet, but the same prophetic spirit can operate in a measure in everyone's life.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I have been reading "thus saith the lord " by John Bevere and I have question .

We have had quite a few so called prophets visit our church and I like everyone else loves hearing the words given.
The problem is the words are more like fortune telling and pleasing the desires of those given words.
There is very little if any correction and warning which seems to be the way prophets in the bible worked.
I have felt a strong presence of God when around them but am wondering if this is some other presence.

Any ideas?

The gifts of the Spirit are to build up the Body .

I am at least glad that they are being uplifting . 30 years ago , most "prophets" that I heard were going around thinking that striking at the Lord's sheep was the thing to do . They liked fear to go ahead of them .

I wouldn't be bothered by it unless some red flags were flown . "Thus saith the Lord" is always a red flag with me . Also , if there is an appearance that the person is attempting to draw attention to themselves or try to blow themselves up as an authority over you . Finally , if the leaders ask for an additional donation that they don't want "considered as a part of one's regular tithes and offerings" , there is a scam going on in your midst .

 

[tturt]

Definitely agree that they're not to lord over anybody.

Glad you clarified that "thus saith the Lord" is always a red flag with me. While others say the opposite - they're not interested in getting a prophetic word unless it's stated.

May we all just use what's in Scripture as our standards.

 

[JimB]

Personally, I am skeptical (I would like to think, discerning) of many self-professing "prophets" and when I am prophesied over I simply tell them, "We'll wait and see," but I do not order my life after anyone’s “prophecy.” I have seen far too many of them off the mark to put much reliance in them. In the hands of controlling personalities, the current way we do prophecy can be harmful. IMO, we are so off-the-mark in our understanding of NT prophecy that we need to can the practice until we get a better handle on it unless we do even more damage to gullible peoples’ lives. Right now, we're like children running with scissors.

~Jim

 

[Boidae]

I am skeptical as well of self proclaimed prophets and apostles.

Want me to really throw a monkey wrench into things? I know many do not believe in female church leadership, but when we were going to my wife's old church there was a self proclaimed apostle and it was a woman.

The prophets and pastors that have given us words, such as we will have two children within two years have all turned out to be false. They were just preying on our emotions for whatever reason knowing that my wife and I want to have children. The two years will be up in 3 months. My wife isn't pregnant and there is a 9 month gestation period and the word was that they will be born in two years.

 

[tturt]

Boldae, I'm sorry that your experiences have been so negative with the prophetic. I truly am.

But we can't base our Biblical views based on our experiences.

Despite prophesyings is basely what many post.

 

[JimB]

Boldae, I'm sorry that your experiences have been so negative with the prophetic. I truly am.

But we can't base our Biblical views based on our experiences.

Despite prophesyings is basely what many post.

Nor can we base truth on the way people do prophecy. I contend that the overwhelming majority of people who “prophesy” speak out of their own spirit and not the Spirit of God. Why else would we have so much confusion and abuse (intentional or otherwise) of the gift?

~Jim

 

[Boidae]

Boldae, I'm sorry that your experiences have been so negative with the prophetic. I truly am.

But we can't base our Biblical views based on our experiences.

Despite prophesyings is basely what many post.

For now I will though as I am guarding my heart against those who look to do their own will. I am also protecting my wife against those that are looking to hurt others.

This is why I fought so hard to take her out of her church.

 

[JimB]

For now I will though as I am guarding my heart against those who look to do their own will. I am also protecting my wife against those that are looking to hurt others.

This is why I fought so hard to take her out of her church.

I can sympathize. Several years ago a few of us attempted to pull a friend away from a "church" full of self-anointed "prophets" who were telling her that God had told them (?) that she was to marry a recovering alcoholic (it would be her fourth marriage) who had just joined their fellowship (which, incidentally, failed a short time later). She would not listen to us, calling us dead spiritually and accused us, as judgmental people are wont to do, of being too judgmental, etc., etc. To make a long, sad story short, she listened to the "prophets," married the alcoholic, and two years and a wrecked life later she got her fourth divorce and the guy she married drifted off to some soup line somewhere. I had a chance to meet with the pastor of the spooky fellowship during that time and told him what I thought of him and his style of leadership. He pooh-poohed my concerns and six months later disappeared with his secretary and the church funds, leaving his wife, two sons, and bogus church to struggle.

~Jim

 

[lismore]

In my experience a genuine prophet is reluctant to speak out, just like Jeremiah who kept silent and discovered that the word burned in him like a fire. In other words Jeremiah wasn't the sort of person who wished to attract attention to himself, only to God, perhaps the best type of person to be a prophet?

 

[Alive_Again]

The prophets and pastors that have given us words, such as we will have two children within two years have all turned out to be false.

That is possible but consider that the revelation prophets get can sometimes be misinterpreted. They might have seen a "2" and children. There is something to be said about "stewarding" personal prophecy. It is possible that your wife would have been pregnant with twins within 2 years. If you are negatively critical, this could affect the fulfillment of God's blessing in your life.

The two years will be up in 3 months.

Your 2 years aren't up yet.

They were just preying on our emotions for whatever reason knowing that my wife and I want to have children.

Hate to say it, but that is an unrighteous judgment your basing on the apparent lack of fulfillment. You really need to be careful in the judgments you make regarding God's servants and their heart condition. Realize also that prophets (or anyone else) can misinterpret what they see.

Keep YOUR heart condition and it would be wise to repent of your judgment and humble yourself before God and don't let your behavior keep you from your blessing (however it comes).

 

[Boidae]

That is possible but consider that the revelation prophets get can sometimes be misinterpreted. They might have seen a "2" and children. There is something to be said about "stewarding" personal prophecy. It is possible that your wife would have been pregnant with twins within 2 years. If you are negatively critical, this could affect the fulfillment of God's blessing in your life.



Your 2 years aren't up yet.



Hate to say it, but that is an unrighteous judgment your basing on the apparent lack of fulfillment. You really need to be careful in the judgments you make regarding God's servants and their heart condition. Realize also that prophets (or anyone else) can misinterpret what they see.

Keep YOUR heart condition and it would be wise to repent of your judgment and humble yourself before God and don't let your behavior keep you from your blessing (however it comes).

There is nothing for me to repent of. They were wrong and I can call them on it.

BTW, it will not happen because she's not going to birth twins in 3 months. She's not even pregnant at this time.

This is the one thing that I don't appreciate in some Christians. The whole you can not question a pastor, or any other "man" of God. I will continue to question them, especially when they appear to be false.

 

[Boidae]

Let me clarify my statement.

There is nothing to repent of as I don't hold ill will against them. Just because I call them on what they said to me doesn't mean that I hold ill will.

I am skeptical of anything that gets said to me or my wife by self proclaimed prophets because as I said I am guarding our hearts.

 

[Alive_Again]

There is nothing for me to repent of. They were wrong and I can call them on it.

It's possible. Give the mercy you want because that is what you'll get.

BTW, it will not happen because she's not going to birth twins in 3 months. She's not even pregnant at this time.

My whole point is that you can misinterpret symbolic revelation. I hear prophets talk about it where they made mistakes. If the mistake was that she would be pregnant with (2) twins within 2 years (entirely possible since your wife's period won't last 3 months - right?

Since you don't know if it was misunderstood, to take a hard line on it is unwise. Especially since you're wanting God to give you children, and you are outspoken about it.

This is the one thing that I don't appreciate in some Christians. The whole you can not question a pastor, or any other "man" of God. I will continue to question them, especially when they appear to be false.

EVERYONE has to have their words judged (weighed for truth) (by the Spirit). That includes anyone in the five fold ministry. That is not the problem. The problem is when you label them "false" because they may have been mistaken. Now you are the one in the position of wanting to receive from God. Your job is to remain humble and expectant.

Even if they were flat wrong or even heard the wrong spirit, to label them "false" is harsh and they are no different from you (who also makes mistakes).

It always boils down to your heart condition. What you say and if you judge God's servants. I'm not talking about judging their words, I'm talking about judging His servants.

Sound reasonable, or will you be like the many on this forum who hold fast their right to render judgment on the person and their heart condition?

There is nothing for me to repent of.

They were just preying on our emotions for whatever reason knowing that my wife and I want to have children.

Something to repent of!