Prophets in the New Covenant

Joyous Song

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We are troubled by some people who claim they are a prophet here on this site and elsewhere. Of course, scripture has many examples of people being called, from the least to the greatest, to service. Scripture makes it very clear by name or title who is doing the calling or anointing.

For example, “G-d” or “Father” can be equally ambiguous as to the true source. In contrast, Scripture uses the Holy Name of our Creator (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkak, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malichi), the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Moses), or the Hebrew El-hym,or El-hi (and Ad-nai) of the Temple in Jerusalem (Daniel) Who made the heavens and earth.

Yet we also have seen many also who claimed they were called in our years in America such as Helter Skelter, The Branch Davidian Cult and John’s Town. These leaders all claimed that “G-d” sent them as prophets of our days. More recently we’ve seen movements led by “like prophets” that are leading E'phraim to error. Indeed the HaMoshiach (The Messiah) warned us as much that this was signs of the end times:

“And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.” Matt.24.10

As such we are told to test the spirit, 1 Jn.4.1- 6. This is not to imply all claiming prophetic understanding are trying to deceive, for one could also be a victim of a deception or ignorant of the extent of their calling. Keep in mind, visionaries predict the Anti-Christ will appear to have good fruit initially, even though his testimony and heart is evil. Thus saying “G-d said” is and “look at my fruit” as proof is not enough. How else will he lead so many astray? HaMoshiach made a statement that suggests there would be no more “prophets”:


“For all prophets and the law prophesied until John...” Matthew 11.13


The word “until” waits for something to meet the criteria. For example, “we are not going to the movie until your brother come homes.” Thus we read Matthew the same way - all prophets preceded John, and when John the Baptist came, no more prophets shall arise.

In regards to the two Witnesses (or Martyrs), they are not called prophets even though they will prophecy, Rev.11.3! To prove this go to the Haftorah (prophets) to Zechariah:


“On that day there shall be a Fountain opened up for the House of Jacob to cleanse them from all sin.” 13.1
 

Joyous Song

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“On that day there shall be a Fountain opened up for the House of Jacob to cleanse them from all sin.” 13.1

It is HaMoshiach’s sacrifice upon Calvary that cleanses us from sin. This fact leads to how prophets would be treated after that day when our idols were replaced by faith and grace, 2. Yet that sentence also states, “and also I, HaShem of hosts, will remove from the land (or earth, הארץ , Haertz) the prophets and the unclean spirits”.

If HaShem, praise be He, removed all prophets after John the Baptist, what was John the Evangelist who wrote Revelation? The answer lies in how in the Body of Christ should receive one claiming to be a prophet:

“And if any one again appears as a prophet, His father and mother who bore him will say to him, ‘you shall not live, for you speak lies in the name of HaShem’; and his father and mother who bore him shall pierce him through when he prophecies.” 3

The “mother” fits the Church, the Bride of Christ; and therefore the “father” would be the leader of the apostolic faith (i.e. pope). The Roman Church did not tell John the Evangelist he was not a prophet and then strike him down, but rather upheld his visions and understanding, and made these part of the canon. This leads to what John the Evangelist was, the first No-Prophet of the Renewed Covenant:

“On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies; he will not put on a hairy mantle in order to deceive...” 4

John did not put on a prophet’s garment saying “I am a prophet, listen to me” but called himself a servant of HaMoshiach, only, Rev.1.1. Also, he fell down feeling unworthy when HaShem, Praise be He, called him.... or was “ashamed” of this prophecy coming to him, a sinner, 17.

“...but he will say, ‘I am no prophet, I am a tiller of the soil; for the land has been my possession from my youth.’” Zech.13.5


John was not a literal gardener but in his writings is the evidence he farmed PRDS (a Jewish method of Scriptural study) in his youth, he was called by Christ while still young, and like all Jewish children, studied since a young boy, Jn.1.1-5, 3.

And if you ask him, ‘what are these wounds on your hands ( ידם Yadim means hands even if some texts have back). He will say ‘these wounds I received in the House of my friends ( אחו = Ahavi, those “I love”, literally), Zech.13.6.


John was a prisoner on Patmos made one by his Jewish Uncle, whom he loved, who rose to power under John in many ways. So he took up his cross before writing this text.

Thus, to understand future “prophets” (rather witnesses, visionaries and doctors of the church) you need to study how John’s words became Scripture.

And just as all prophets led to John the Baptist, the last prophet, when HaMoshiach ben Yosef came; we believe all No-Prophets will lead to the last No-Prophet before HaMoshiach ben Dovid returns!

This brings is back to John the Evangelist. The reason John became acceptable and his testimony has survived two thousand years, even with people trying to remove Revelations from the Canon (or marginalize it), is because His words were tested, and his actions were tested, by the early Church Fathers of his day; They were upheld and added to Canon; and thus, we can be sure of his words.

Therefore this is the difference between Prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures and no-Prophets of the Brith Hadoshah (Renewed Covenant). Prophet still declared with only HaShem’s authority to back them up but in the Renewed Covenant, those who make such a declaration are to be tested and, if once tested, their revelations appear to come from HaShem, they are designated: “Worthy of Belief” and published with the Churches’ blessings.
 
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Berean Tim

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We are troubled by some people who claim they are a prophet here on this site and elsewhere. Of course, scripture has many examples of people being called, from the least to the greatest, to service. Scripture makes it very clear by name or title who is doing the calling or anointing.

For example, “G-d” or “Father” can be equally ambiguous as to the true source. In contrast, Scripture uses the Holy Name of our Creator (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkak, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malichi), the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Moses), or the Hebrew El-hym,or El-hi (and Ad-nai) of the Temple in Jerusalem (Daniel) Who made the heavens and earth.

Yet we also have seen many also who claimed they were called in our years in America such as Helter Skelter, The Branch Davidian Cult and John’s Town. These leaders all claimed that “G-d” sent them as prophets of our days. More recently we’ve seen movements led by “like prophets” that are leading E'phraim to error. Indeed the HaMoshiach (The Messiah) warned us as much that this was signs of the end times:

“And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.” Matt.24.10

As such we are told to test the spirit, 1 Jn.4.1- 6. This is not to imply all claiming prophetic understanding are trying to deceive, for one could also be a victim of a deception or ignorant of the extent of their calling. Keep in mind, visionaries predict the Anti-Christ will appear to have good fruit initially, even though his testimony and heart is evil. Thus saying “G-d said” is and “look at my fruit” as proof is not enough. How else will he lead so many astray? HaMoshiach made a statement that suggests there would be no more “prophets”:


“For all prophets and the law prophesied until John...” Matthew 11.13


The word “until” waits for something to meet the criteria. For example, “we are not going to the movie until your brother come homes.” Thus we read Matthew the same way - all prophets preceded John, and when John the Baptist came, no more prophets shall arise.

In regards to the two Witnesses (or Martyrs), they are not called prophets even though they will prophecy, Rev.11.3! To prove this go to the Haftorah (prophets) to Zechariah:


“On that day there shall be a Fountain opened up for the House of Jacob to cleanse them from all sin.” 13.1
We talked about this today in Sunday school. My thoughts are some can have a word from the Lord for the congregation without holding the office of Prophet.
I would be very careful with those who have a personal word for you alone. Example - if one told you God was calling you to a mission field, you should take them with you, so you'll know when to come home.
Test every spirit !
 
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iamlamad

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We are troubled by some people who claim they are a prophet here on this site and elsewhere. Of course, scripture has many examples of people being called, from the least to the greatest, to service. Scripture makes it very clear by name or title who is doing the calling or anointing.

For example, “G-d” or “Father” can be equally ambiguous as to the true source. In contrast, Scripture uses the Holy Name of our Creator (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkak, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malichi), the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Moses), or the Hebrew El-hym,or El-hi (and Ad-nai) of the Temple in Jerusalem (Daniel) Who made the heavens and earth.

Yet we also have seen many also who claimed they were called in our years in America such as Helter Skelter, The Branch Davidian Cult and John’s Town. These leaders all claimed that “G-d” sent them as prophets of our days. More recently we’ve seen movements led by “like prophets” that are leading E'phraim to error. Indeed the HaMoshiach (The Messiah) warned us as much that this was signs of the end times:

“And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.” Matt.24.10

As such we are told to test the spirit, 1 Jn.4.1- 6. This is not to imply all claiming prophetic understanding are trying to deceive, for one could also be a victim of a deception or ignorant of the extent of their calling. Keep in mind, visionaries predict the Anti-Christ will appear to have good fruit initially, even though his testimony and heart is evil. Thus saying “G-d said” is and “look at my fruit” as proof is not enough. How else will he lead so many astray? HaMoshiach made a statement that suggests there would be no more “prophets”:


“For all prophets and the law prophesied until John...” Matthew 11.13


The word “until” waits for something to meet the criteria. For example, “we are not going to the movie until your brother come homes.” Thus we read Matthew the same way - all prophets preceded John, and when John the Baptist came, no more prophets shall arise.

In regards to the two Witnesses (or Martyrs), they are not called prophets even though they will prophecy, Rev.11.3! To prove this go to the Haftorah (prophets) to Zechariah:


“On that day there shall be a Fountain opened up for the House of Jacob to cleanse them from all sin.” 13.1
OF COURSE Jesus was speaking of the OT prophets: they prophesied during the LAW.

There are NT prophets, and an OFFICE of the prophet. And of course a true prophet would be gifted with the gift of prophecy, all very scriptural.
 
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Joyous Song

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iamlamad, post: OF COURSE Jesus was speaking of the OT prophets: they prophesied during the LAW. There are NT prophets, and an OFFICE of the prophet. And of course a true prophet would be gifted with the gift of prophecy, all very scriptural.

This does not address the risk such a position carries. Today false prophets proliferate along side true visionaries. Those highly knowledgeable of may layers of the Sacred Scriptures and who have disciplined their egos to allow the Holy Spirit to flow into them often may see clearly, but many assume they know the scriptures when they do not, and suffer from a self righteous ego.

Sadly we are often poor judges of our own knowledge and holiness. Perhaps this is why Zechariah warned that the Father and mother of the prophet would judge them not the laity. This is also likely why the future NT prophets would be humble, not calling themselves prophets, wearing a prophets garb, and feel uncertain as to why they are hearing HaShem. This is likely also why they are study the Word from their youth so that when they do come to that test before their Mother and father, they will be able to defend what the L-rd has said to them.
 
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Joyous Song

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Berean Tim stated: We talked about this today in Sunday school. My thoughts are some can have a word from the Lord for the congregation without holding the office of Prophet.

I would be very careful with those who have a personal word for you alone. Example - if one told you God was calling you to a mission field, you should take them with you, so you'll know when to come home. Test every spirit !

Very true yet leaders of the Body are the ultimate authority with those whose words speak beyond boarders and to a larger body.

Thus when a visionary, I forget her name, told people in south Florida to write Joshua's words: "as for me and my people, we shall follow the L-rd" on their houses, a family prayed and felt strongly, they should do so.

When they cam home after the hurricane flatten their town they found not only was there house still standing, the words still visible and when they walked in the electricity was still working.


This was a local miracle that did not contradict HaShem;s words which is a simple test each can make when they hear a person prophecy. Yet when David HaKoresh claimed he was the Messiah
 
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BABerean2

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Therefore this is the difference between Prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures and no-Prophets of the Brith Hadoshah (Renewed Covenant). Prophet still declared with only HaShem’s authority to back them up but in the Renewed Covenant, those who make such a declaration are to be tested and, if once tested, their revelations appear to come from HaShem, they are designated: “Worthy of Belief” and published with the Churches’ blessings.


The words "Renewed Covenant" are not in the text.

In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.


The New Covenant: Bob George


.
 
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Joyous Song

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Joyous Song in the original post: Therefore this is the difference between Prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures and no-Prophets of the Brith Hadoshah (Renewed Covenant). Prophet still declared with only HaShem’s authority to back them up but in the Renewed Covenant, those who make such a declaration are to be tested and, if once tested, their revelations appear to come from HaShem, they are designated: “Worthy of Belief” and published with the Churches’ blessings.


BABerean2: The words "Renewed Covenant" are not in the text.


JS: The word Chadashah (חדשה) in Brith Chadashah can mean “new” or even “renew” or even “fresh”, and it’s in the future tense as well. All three words are valid interpretations from Hebrew; however, “renew” fits better because Christ came to fulfill the Law and not replace the Law (Matt.5.17-18).


Also note the text not only says this “renewed covenant” is for both houses of Israel (Judah and Israel) and not like the covenant made with Moshe (Jer.31.31-32), but then it says it’s for the House of Israel - E’phraim, the Northern Kingdom in exile and those grafted into Israel over the last two thousand years.



BABerean2: In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

JS: and in 2 Peter. 15-16:


Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Galatians is just such an epistle because it as written for a very certain time, place and community. It was written to former pagans who sacrificed children (sacrificed to idols), were cruel to animals (from the strangled and burned alive), and fornicated (unchastity) before bringing Christ into their lives. They needed to be grounded in faith, and as non-Hebrews, they were not under the entire law but only those stipulated in Acts.15.28.

Only Israel and those associated with Israel, and those whose ancestors stood beneath Mount Sinai and promised to keep the covenant set down by Moshe, are under the original covenant laolam (forever). This does not include the entire sacrificial system for in the “renewed covenant” all sacrifices ended, except for the Thanksgiving Sacrifice (Eucharist), the meaning of Heb.8.13. This was predicted in the Talmud as well, that only the Thanksgiving sacrifice would survive the Moshiach’s coming.

BABerean2: We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

This is true; however, that does not nullify what Hashem, praise be He, gave to Moshe. Paul affirms this: ”for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable”, Rom.11.29. Abiding in Hahalacha is not for salvation, but rather as a call to give witness and testimony to HaShem’s blessings (gifts). Thus, each of us need to respond to HaShem’s call as His witness. Yet your call may not be mine, and my call may not be yours (see Jer.31):


“No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or his brother, saying, ‘Know HaShem’ because they will know Me, from the least of them to the greatest” 34
 
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keras

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Since Jesus gave Revelation to John to write, there has been no Prophets to tell us about future world events. There is no need of one, as the Bible contains all we need to know about God's Plans for the world, His 7000 year decreed time for mankind, culminating with Eternity.
There are some who have the prophetic gift for individuals.

If your OP was aimed at me, as I suspect; then be informed that I am not and have never claimed to be a prophet. I promote what the ancient Prophets wrote; I am a messenger, a proclaimer, as my name; Keraz means in Hebrew.
 
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Joyous Song

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Karus: Since Jesus gave Revelation to John to write, there has been no Prophets to tell us about future world events. There is no need of one, as the Bible contains all we need to know about God's Plans for the world, His 7000 year decreed time for mankind, culminating with Eternity.
There are some who have the prophetic gift for individuals.


If your OP was aimed at me, as I suspect; then be informed that I am not and have never claimed to be a prophet. I promote what the ancient Prophets wrote; I am a messenger, a proclaimer, as my name; Keraz means in Hebrew.


JS: no it was not, it was aimed at a series of so-called prophets that have been raising up in our society like bad mushrooms, one who rose up recently here. So we decided to teach that there would be no-prophets which are not prophets because all they say and see comes from the Sacred Scriptures or that the “Bible contains all we need to know about God's Plans for the world” and must be affirmed by their Mother (Church) and father (Pope or prime Bishop in apostolic succession). Yet if indeed, as so many claim, those prophecies are easy to understand than that would also mean we would all agree? Only we do not!

So what we are trying to explain is one day, HaShem, praise be He, will raise up the last doctor of the Church, or the Last No Prophet, which Christ in the parable of the Bridesmaids called “the Messenger”. This person will guide any who are humble and able to hear the song to who those two witnesses and that we are that we are living in the end times.

This is at least how we read that text, and that that same no-prophet will face persecution from his friends, literally taking up his (or her) cross. I say his or her only because this text was predicting all doctors of the church and although most were men, two or three were women.
 
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Douggg

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Karus: Since Jesus gave Revelation to John to write, there has been no Prophets to tell us about future world events. There is no need of one, as the Bible contains all we need to know about God's Plans for the world, His 7000 year decreed time for mankind, culminating with Eternity.
There are some who have the prophetic gift for individuals.

If your OP was aimed at me, as I suspect; then be informed that I am not and have never claimed to be a prophet. I promote what the ancient Prophets wrote; I am a messenger, a proclaimer, as my name; Keraz means in Hebrew.


JS: no it was not, it was aimed at a series of so-called prophets that have been raising up in our society like bad mushrooms, one who rose up recently here. So we decided to teach that there would be no-prophets which are not prophets because all they say and see comes from the Sacred Scriptures or that the “Bible contains all we need to know about God's Plans for the world” and must be affirmed by their Mother (Church) and father (Pope or prime Bishop in apostolic succession). Yet if indeed, as so many claim, those prophecies are easy to understand than that would also mean we would all agree? Only we do not!

So what we are trying to explain is one day, HaShem, praise be He, will raise up the last doctor of the Church, or the Last No Prophet, which Christ in the parable of the Bridesmaids called “the Messenger”. This person will guide any who are humble and able to hear the song to who those two witnesses and that we are that we are living in the end times.

This is at least how we read that text, and that that same no-prophet will face persecution from his friends, literally taking up his (or her) cross. I say his or her only because this text was predicting all doctors of the church and although most were men, two or three were women.
I will simplify it. False prophets usually show up in the charismatic movement, and soon as they say they deal in the "prophetic", and some special anointing of some fellow like minded false prophets, then you can count on them being a false prophet.
 
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Prophet still declared with only HaShem’s authority to back them up but in the Renewed Covenant,

Can you show us the term "the Renewed Covenant" in scripture?


In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

In Hebrews 7:12 we find a change in the law.

In Hebrews 8:6-13 we find a better covenant which has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.


The New Covenant: Bob George

.
 
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Joyous Song

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Joyous Song said: Prophet still declared with only HaShem’s authority to back them up but in the Renewed Covenant,

BABwean: Can you show us the term "the Renewed Covenant" in scripture?



JS: בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה. Or Brith HaDoshah often interpreted New Covenant can also mean Renewed Covenant. Doshah has both meanings.


BABwean: In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

JS: This was because Jewish Traditions are too advanced a teaching for them and if they tried ro take these on which some did so legalistically. This happens to be a risk of any law including civil laws. As humans we tend to judge things with our limited understanding.


BABwean: In Hebrews 7:12 we find a change in the law. In Hebrews 8:6-13 we find a better covenant which has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

JS: I put these two together because this next verse in Hebrews The exact Quote is: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Even the Talmud predicted one say only the Thanksgiving Sacrifice would exist, Paul here is predicting this, That Thanksgiving Sacrifice is the Christian Eucharist. Indeed this has to be the correct interpretation as Paul clearly stated “and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear” which this did when the Holy Temple fell.

Yet Hahalacha, or Jewish Traditions command eternal in Torah Judah has painstakingly maintained without their sacrificial system. These were not disappear, so they cannot be what Paul was talking of.


BABwean: We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

JS: When the Hebrews first received that covenant of Moshe, HaShem first gave them Passover when He freed them from Egypt and then the Sabbath once the manna was sent down. Both preceded the call for faith at Mount Sinai. Christians on the other hand were called to have faith first before they were expected to follow any those laws of Act.15.

Thus we did come to the Renewed Covenant differently, that’s not the issue I was trying to express but I admit my communication skills are by no means perfect. So please keep this in mind.
 
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Joyous Song

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I will simplify it. False prophets usually show up in the charismatic movement, and soon as they say they deal in the "prophetic", and some special anointing of some fellow like minded false prophets, then you can count on them being a false prophet.

JS: Does the Charismatic movement have a strong leadership with a church body judging things like this? In the Roman Church its the Magnesium (collection of Bishops or Mother) and the Pope (father). In the tradition I am in, its the gathering of Bishops and chosen laity (Mother) and our Prime Bishop (father).

Doesn’t the Charismatic movement have a similar structure to test the Spirit if a true or false when such a “prophet” arises to lead those in these groups astray? Or is this left for each congregation to do? Of course such a leadership police force called to test the Spirit is only as good as they are willing to act but that is another issue entirely.
 
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Douggg

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JS: Does the Charismatic movement have a strong leadership with a church body judging things like this? In the Roman Church its the Magnesium (collection of Bishops or Mother) and the Pope (father). In the tradition I am in, its the gathering of Bishops and chosen laity (Mother) and our Prime Bishop (father).

Doesn’t the Charismatic movement have a similar structure to test the Spirit if a true or false when such a “prophet” arises to lead those in these groups astray? Or is this left for each congregation to do? Of course such a leadership police force called to test the Spirit is only as good as they are willing to act but that is another issue entirely.
Hi Joyous Song, thanks for the information on the RC structure for addressing such things.

Regarding the charismatic movement, I have no idea. My comment is based on what I have observed on you tube and read on the internet. Specifically, I am talking about persons like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Kim Clement, Juanita Bynum, Christina Glenn Weeks, etc. As soon as those types start ranting and raving, a person can write them down as false prophet.
 
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Joyous Song

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Hi Joyous Song, thanks for the information on the RC structure for addressing such things.

Regarding the charismatic movement, I have no idea. My comment is based on what I have observed on you tube and read on the internet. Specifically, I am talking about persons like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Kim Clement, Juanita Bynum, Christina Glenn Weeks, etc. As soon as those types start ranting and raving, a person can write them down as false prophet.

JS: I don’t go on You Tube. I have a disability, called CAPD, where I learn best through reading rather though oral dialog which is why I likely prefer to stay off You Tube which is all verbal.Its also why I tend to share written material over video as well.
 
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BABerean2

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Joyous Song said: Prophet still declared with only HaShem’s authority to back them up but in the Renewed Covenant,

BABwean: Can you show us the term "the Renewed Covenant" in scripture?



JS: בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה. Or Brith HaDoshah often interpreted New Covenant can also mean Renewed Covenant. Doshah has both meanings.


BABwean: In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

JS: This was because Jewish Traditions are too advanced a teaching for them and if they tried ro take these on which some did so legalistically. This happens to be a risk of any law including civil laws. As humans we tend to judge things with our limited understanding.


BABwean: In Hebrews 7:12 we find a change in the law. In Hebrews 8:6-13 we find a better covenant which has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

JS: I put these two together because this next verse in Hebrews The exact Quote is: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Even the Talmud predicted one say only the Thanksgiving Sacrifice would exist, Paul here is predicting this, That Thanksgiving Sacrifice is the Christian Eucharist. Indeed this has to be the correct interpretation as Paul clearly stated “and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear” which this did when the Holy Temple fell.

Yet Hahalacha, or Jewish Traditions command eternal in Torah Judah has painstakingly maintained without their sacrificial system. These were not disappear, so they cannot be what Paul was talking of.


BABwean: We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

JS: When the Hebrews first received that covenant of Moshe, HaShem first gave them Passover when He freed them from Egypt and then the Sabbath once the manna was sent down. Both preceded the call for faith at Mount Sinai. Christians on the other hand were called to have faith first before they were expected to follow any those laws of Act.15.

Thus we did come to the Renewed Covenant differently, that’s not the issue I was trying to express but I admit my communication skills are by no means perfect. So please keep this in mind.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

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Marilyn C

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We are troubled by some people who claim they are a prophet here on this site and elsewhere. Of course, scripture has many examples of people being called, from the least to the greatest, to service. Scripture makes it very clear by name or title who is doing the calling or anointing.

Hi Joyous Song,

Yes a great many false prophets abound. Most based on emotion and wild imaginings & some down right demonic.

God does tell us that Prophets are a part of equipping the Body for the work of the ministry. (Eph. 4: 11 & 12) Sadly, though not unexpected we have those people going around `fortune telling` individuals & what will `happen in the news,` etc. All NOT building up the Body of Christ or focused on the LOrd, His character and His purposes. (John 16: 13 - 15, Rev.19: 10)

A true prophet will be amongst a group of people and speaking to edify and build up. It will not be a video on utube, etc. The message will be an encouragement and a stimulus for people to come closer to the Lord.

The false prophet of Rev. 13 is a prophet to the world system. He will be scaring people, creating fear, and getting people to emotionally feel guilty for destroying the planet. He will seek to control them through such programs as Climate Change, and declaring that, together we can save the world.
 
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Joyous Song

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Marylin: Yes a great many false prophets abound. Most based on emotion and wild imaginings & some down right demonic.

JS: From the time I was young false prophets have arisen. Christ foretold this was a sign of the end times.

Marylin: God does tell us that Prophets are a part of equipping the Body for the work of the ministry. (Eph. 4: 11 & 12) Sadly, though not unexpected we have those people going around `fortune telling` individuals & what will `happen in the news,` etc. All NOT building up the Body of Christ or focused on the LOrd, His character and His purposes. (John 16: 13 - 15, Rev.19: 10)

JS: True but this does not mean they will be popular or listened to.

Marylin: A true prophet will be amongst a group of people and speaking to edify and build up. It will not be a video on utube, etc. The message will be an encouragement and a stimulus for people to come closer to the Lord.

JS: Not only to bring people closer to the Lord also to give them warning so they can be prepared. Or welp them overcome sinful behavior.

The false prophet of Rev. 13 is a prophet to the world system. He will be scaring people, creating fear, and getting people to emotionally feel guilty for destroying the planet. He will seek to control them through such programs as Climate Change, and declaring that, together we can save the world.

JS: Actually, I suspect he say all is peace and security. In fact look at the Trump attitude and multiply it by 100 and we probably will have the attitude of the antiChrist.
 
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Berean Tim

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Hi Joyous Song,

Yes a great many false prophets abound. Most based on emotion and wild imaginings & some down right demonic.

God does tell us that Prophets are a part of equipping the Body for the work of the ministry. (Eph. 4: 11 & 12) Sadly, though not unexpected we have those people going around `fortune telling` individuals & what will `happen in the news,` etc. All NOT building up the Body of Christ or focused on the LOrd, His character and His purposes. (John 16: 13 - 15, Rev.19: 10)

A true prophet will be amongst a group of people and speaking to edify and build up. It will not be a video on utube, etc. The message will be an encouragement and a stimulus for people to come closer to the Lord.

The false prophet of Rev. 13 is a prophet to the world system. He will be scaring people, creating fear, and getting people to emotionally feel guilty for destroying the planet. He will seek to control them through such programs as Climate Change, and declaring that, together we can save the world.
Yes, the Millennium without Christ.
 
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