Prophesying to the Situation

[LinkH]

How is this a prophecy and not a 'declaration' of some sort, you know, the speaking to the mountain kind of thing?

Some folks call making their declarations 'prophesying.' I wonder if it originated with Kenneth Copeland. I could never take much more than a few minutes of Copeland at a time without changing the channel. One time, about 1992 or so, I saw him on TV. He was talking about the valley of the dry bones, where Ezekiel was told to prophesy to the bones that they may live.

That's supposed to mean you can 'prophesy' to your situation, to money, to health, etc.

But if you look at the Ezekiel prophecy,
1. God told him to prophecy.
2. He said, "This is what the Sovereign Lord says"

God gave Him the message to prophesy. He didn't just 'speak to the mountain' whatever he wanted to say.

Genuine prophesying is speaking as moved by the Holy Ghost. Ezekiel 13:2 speaks of those who prophesy out of their own hearts, and it isn't a good thing.

I don't mind someone speaking to a mountain. But if the Lord didn't give the message as a prophecy, I don't think they should call it prophesying. If they do, they can leave themselves open to being accused of prophesying falsely (and may be guilty of it) and they can also can create confusion.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This happened at my wife's fellowship, which is ran by her mom and female friend (co-pastors). They "prophecy" over people by declaring things to them. They did that to me 7 years ago when they told me I was going to die by explosion in Iraq. They did this recently to the main pastor's daughter (the female friend of my mother-in-law). Told her she would be pregnant before the end of last year 2014. She isn't pregnant and now highly discouraged. People have left the church over that nonsense, and I'm fairly certain its punishment for what they "said in the name of the Lord".

I don't like it at all. Hurts my soul to think of the faith that has been destroyed by such things. Not just by them, but by others like it. I love them to death, I do. They have helped us tremendously in our need, but such practices are really sickening to do continually especially when the track record of right "prophecyings" is way more wrong than right...

Sorry if that is not what you were getting at here...

 

[Biblicist]

How is this a prophecy and not a 'declaration' of some sort, you know, the speaking to the mountain kind of thing?

Some folks call making their declarations 'prophesying.' I wonder if it originated with Kenneth Copeland. I could never take much more than a few minutes of Copeland at a time without changing the channel. One time, about 1992 or so, I saw him on TV. He was talking about the valley of the dry bones, where Ezekiel was told to prophesy to the bones that they may live.

That's supposed to mean you can 'prophesy' to your situation, to money, to health, etc.

But if you look at the Ezekiel prophecy,
1. God told him to prophecy.
2. He said, "This is what the Sovereign Lord says"

God gave Him the message to prophesy. He didn't just 'speak to the mountain' whatever he wanted to say.

Genuine prophesying is speaking as moved by the Holy Ghost. Ezekiel 13:2 speaks of those who prophesy out of their own hearts, and it isn't a good thing.

I don't mind someone speaking to a mountain. But if the Lord didn't give the message as a prophecy, I don't think they should call it prophesying. If they do, they can leave themselves open to being accused of prophesying falsely (and may be guilty of it) and they can also can create confusion.

And we wonder why we see so little evidence with prophecy and tongues within our mainline Pentecostal meetings. If we can get back to the Word on these two issues then we might just see more evidence of the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

For as long as we allow human precepts to override the Word of God, where man's thoughts become more important than the Word, then we will be doomed to see these forms of abuse for many more years to come.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

And we wonder why we see so little evidence with prophecy and tongues within our mainline Pentecostal meetings. If we can get back to the Word on these two issues then we might just see more evidence of the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

For as long as we allow human precepts to override the Word of God, where man's thoughts become more important than the Word, then we will be doomed to see these forms of abuse for many more years to come.

Man has always tried to understand "god". In this age of reason, what better way to do that than to form him in our own image? This is the god most worship. A demonic obsession that molds itself after concepts and ideas that make it easier for man to grasp and take hold of. People don't want the invisible ruling and dictating to them how to live, rather they want a god they can feel, they can bend, they can manipulate...

When people come to know the Eternal Almighty One, YWYH, the Holy One of Israel, they will know true peace and freedom. Then they will see the glory of the only true God.

 

[FireWithin]

It's a very popular church fad right now, there are so many "prophets" popping up in the churches, they're practically a dime a dozen. I don't understand it. Apostles, too! One trait these prophets and apostles share is a message of resentment towards the role of pastor. They proclaim that the majority of churches today are being held back by disconnected pastors who misunderstand the roles of apostles and prophets and so they quench the Spirit and the churches become worldly and dead.

It's an alarming thing, and spreading like fire.

 

[Alithis]

It's a very popular church fad right now, there are so many "prophets" popping up in the churches, they're practically a dime a dozen. I don't understand it. Apostles, too! One trait these prophets and apostles share is a message of resentment towards the role of pastor. They proclaim that the majority of churches today are being held back by disconnected pastors who misunderstand the roles of apostles and prophets and so they quench the Spirit and the churches become worldly and dead.

It's an alarming thing, and spreading like fire.

more of a past old trend i thought ..but then perhaps where you are its resurgent ...
but a person who declares to be prophesying, who then prophecies something that does not come to pass is deemed a false prophet .
such folks need to be brought to task by first confronting the error - if they will not listen one on one , then before witness ,then before the elders ..if they still wont repent in humility then they are "unrepentant" and should be put out from the church and prayed for until they repent and return to right standing before God (treated as an unbeliever-we love them and pray for their salvation but no longer break bread with them )
-shock to some, but that is what the bible states we do when people are caught out in a wrong and refuse to repent of it . prophesying things that don't come to pass is "a wrong".

Sadly the situation continues ,i think, due to the desire to hear pleasant things that are pleasing to the ear ,and that carnal desire encourages these false prophets to come in like wolves .

some may say i'm being harsh .. but i believe in the lord Jesus and in his HOLY SPIRIT ..the Spirit of the lord is not "wrong" he does not make error .if a person prophesies by the spirit of the Lord it will surely happen as declared ..
if it simply does not happen.. then by what spirit were they prophesying ?!
In a world that has become saturated in spiritual wickedness with lying spirits on every proverbial corner i think we need to take the unfiltered line of the word of God all the more .

 

[Biblicist]

It's a very popular church fad right now, there are so many "prophets" popping up in the churches, they're practically a dime a dozen. I don't understand it. Apostles, too! One trait these prophets and apostles share is a message of resentment towards the role of pastor. They proclaim that the majority of churches today are being held back by disconnected pastors who misunderstand the roles of apostles and prophets and so they quench the Spirit and the churches become worldly and dead.

It's an alarming thing, and spreading like fire.

The ungodly imposition onto the Church by these self appointed celebrity "apostles" and "prophets" probably had its beginning with the horrid latter-rain movement which started in Canada back in 1948. All that Wagner (and others) have done is to rebag this old errant doctrine into something that is more acceptable to the current generation.

This does not mean that the roles of the apostle and prophet and not for todays church, in fact, quite the opposite is true where we need more apostles (church planters) and local congregational prophets.

 

[FireWithin]

The ungodly imposition onto the Church by these self appointed celebrity "apostles" and "prophets" probably had its beginning with the horrid latter-rain movement which started in Canada back in 1948. All that Wagner (and others) have done is to rebag this old errant doctrine into something that is more acceptable to the current generation.

This does not mean that the roles of the apostle and prophet and not for todays church, in fact, quite the opposite is true where we need more apostles (church planters) and local congregational prophets.

I've always had a bit of a problem with the titles, for some reason. That's not to say that I am 100% opposed to it, I don't close my mind entirely to things that I don't fully understand (in other words I don't want to let my personal perceptions get in the way of sound doctrine and teaching) -- but where I sit right now, I find it to be wrong that people call themselves "apostles" and "prophets." They seem to be designations stemming from pride. Even if I had planted churches in a region, I would run away from being called an apostle by anyone, even if the Lord had given me prophecy, I would run from the title of prophet. I'm not trying to sound self-righteous but that is truly my conviction.

Maybe I'm wrong, and someone can shed light on this for me.

 

[Biblicist]

I've always had a bit of a problem with the titles, for some reason. That's not to say that I am 100% opposed to it, I don't close my mind entirely to things that I don't fully understand (in other words I don't want to let my personal perceptions get in the way of sound doctrine and teaching) -- but where I sit right now, I find it to be wrong that people call themselves "apostles" and "prophets." They seem to be designations stemming from pride. Even if I had planted churches in a region, I would run away from being called an apostle by anyone, even if the Lord had given me prophecy, I would run from the title of prophet. I'm not trying to sound self-righteous but that is truly my conviction.

Maybe I'm wrong, and someone can shed light on this for me.

I can understand your concern especially when we see the all too frequent celebrity 'ministries' pushing themselves onto the Church as regional apostles and prophets as if they were the latest and best thing from heaven; when in reality, all they are is rather desperate bods who are trying to raise their own stature at our expense.

The title of the apostle (note the small 'a' & not a capital 'A') had fallen out of use for centuries, but if we view them as simply messengers/missionaries then in my view this would reflect what the Scriptures have to say. This does not mean that all missionaries should be deemed to be apostles as only those who are church planters should hold this title. Even with this position, their words and decisions only hold weight for the assemblies that they are a part of and even then they are still under the leadership of the elders.

Even though a church planter would meet the guidelines to be deemed as an apostle, due to how we tend to employ the word 'missionary', we will probably use this term instead of apostle up until the Lord returns. We can be quite comfortable with saying that someone has an apostolic ministry within a specific part of the world but this only refers to their ministry and not so much with their inherent authority, which only applies to the region that he is ministering within.

So if you were to ever find yourself on a church platform where the host says, "Fred" has an apostolic ministry within East Africa, then you can be at ease as he would simply be referring to your role as a church planter. If you were still uncomfortable with this descriptor, you could always mention this to the host before the meeting.