Proof Turin Shroud is Real

[Guide To The Bible]

In 2013 Prof. Giulio Fanti an engineering professor at the University of Padua, Italy, carried out three different dating experiments on samples taken from the shroud which showed the following dates:

300 BC ±400 FT-IR testing
200 BC ±500 Raman testing
400 AD ±400 Multi-parametric mechanical testing
The average of all three dates is 33 BC

The 1988 carbon test suggested it dated from 1260 to 1390. But that one test was in turn disputed as it was proven that the fibres from cloth that were used were taken from an area of the shroud that had a different weave structure to the rest of the shroud and was clearly a medieval repair where the relic was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages.

Prof. Fanti findings were submitted and published in the peer-reviewed scientific journal Thermochimica Acta and has written a newly published book "The Mystery of the Shroud", about his experiments.

Prof. Fanti also carried out experiments that prove the image on the clothe was created by a burst of plasm energy. If you watch the documentary it explains and shows all this evidence in detail:

 

[joshua 1 9]

In 2013 Prof. Giulio Fanti an engineering professor at the University of Padua, Italy, carried out three different dating experiments on samples taken from the shroud which showed the following dates:

300 BC ±400 FT-IR testing
200 BC ±500 Raman testing
400 AD ±400 Multi-parametric mechanical testing
The average of all three dates is 33 BC

The 1988 carbon test suggested it dated from 1260 to 1390. But that one test was in turn disputed as it was proven that the fibres from cloth that were used were taken from an area of the shroud that had a different weave structure to the rest of the shroud and was clearly a medieval repair where the relic was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages.

Prof. Fanti findings were submitted and published in the peer-reviewed scientific journal Thermochimica Acta and has written a newly published book "The Mystery of the Shroud", about his experiments.

Prof. Fanti also carried out experiments that prove the image on the clothe was created by a burst of plasm energy. If you watch the documentary it explains and shows all this evidence in detail:

This is the equipment they unloaded when they examined the Shroud.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

This is the equipment they unloaded when they examined the Shroud.

You're referring to the NASA team in the 1970's who used the VP-8 image analyser to map the first ever 3D image from the shroud. However, they didn't do the carbon dating test, that was done in 1988.

 

[Mountainmike]

Fanti/Malfi have written the best science book on the shroud in my view...as a shroudy, I have all of them!

To me at least (and I speak as a scientist) the shroud testing proves the contempt atheist scientists have for scientific process and evidence whenever they get close to anythign with theistic overtones, they lose all objectivity..

At the time of the faulty Radio test, there was so much evidence against the date they proposed that the only question was why they got it wrong not whether.

Science is intended to be self critical. If you come up with a conclusion that disagrees with other evidence ( as the radio daters did) you are obliged to offer plausibility arguments for why. And if you come to a conclusion (forgery) you are obliged to have a hypothesis for how. All sorts of evidence disagreed, from the sudarium, the hungarian codex, fabric tests and pollen. you name it - none of it concluded mediaeval origin as they did.

Not a bit of it. Halls and the other arrogant halfwits of the scientific establishment, failed to follow the sampling protocols decided years before, they used a single sample and divided it, used only the then unproven - and new AMS as a method, so all their systematic errors were inevitably correlated. Halls refused even to get the most competent lab on radio dating in the UK (which was not his...) which was Harwell involved. They didnt even heed their own teams comments on the samples where they noted they "looked different" from the rest of the shroud! There are plenty of notes made by the daters that called their own work into question. Yet their reservations were not realeased till well later.

They Then had the temerity to present a result not even critical of their own reservations about it. Putting shroud testing back a decade, and bringing science into disrepute.

Why? Like Dawkins...they were not interested in knowing the date of the shroud, they were only interested in dating as anything other than first century. Preferably mediaeval, so when their error confirmed their prejudice they failed to look deeper.

Halls should have been sacked.

To this day the only way anyone has managed to replicate the mark chemistry, that is a very shallow oxidation is a high energy UV radiation burst by laser. And the image is clearly non contact. So must have been short radiation burst , and the only way you can get a focussed radiation mark is coherent radiation (like laser)

Lasers were only invented in the 21st century.
The pre and post mortem pathology on the shroud and sudarium were not even known in forensic science till the 21 st century either
How was a forger supposed to have done it?

Fact is whenever science comes close to anything with theistic overtones it completely loses objectivity. Dawkins has made a fortune with pseudoscience , doing just that.

In 2013 Prof. Giulio Fanti an engineering professor at the University of Padua, Italy, carried out three different dating experiments on samples taken from the shroud which showed the following dates:

300 BC ±400 FT-IR testing
200 BC ±500 Raman testing
400 AD ±400 Multi-parametric mechanical testing
The average of all three dates is 33 BC

The 1988 carbon test suggested it dated from 1260 to 1390. But that one test was in turn disputed as it was proven that the fibres from cloth that were used were taken from an area of the shroud that had a different weave structure to the rest of the shroud and was clearly a medieval repair where the relic was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages.

Prof. Fanti findings were submitted and published in the peer-reviewed scientific journal Thermochimica Acta and has written a newly published book "The Mystery of the Shroud", about his experiments.

Prof. Fanti also carried out experiments that prove the image on the clothe was created by a burst of plasm energy. If you watch the documentary it explains and shows all this evidence in detail:

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Luke 11:29 Jesus said, “This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah."

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Fanti/Malfi have written the best science book on the shroud in my view...as a shroudy, I have all of them!

To me at least (and I speak as a scientist) the shroud testing proves the contempt atheist scientists have for scientific process and evidence whenever they get close to anythign with theistic overtones, they lose all objectivity..

At the time of the faulty Radio test, there was so much evidence against the date they proposed that the only question was why they got it wrong not whether.

Science is intended to be self critical. If you come up with a conclusion that disagrees with other evidence ( as the radio daters did) you are obliged to offer plausibility arguments for why. And if you come to a conclusion (forgery) you are obliged to have a hypothesis for how. All sorts of evidence disagreed, from the sudarium, the hungarian codex, fabric tests and pollen. you name it - none of it concluded mediaeval origin as they did.

Not a bit of it. Halls and the other arrogant halfwits of the scientific establishment, failed to follow the sampling protocols decided years before, they used a single sample and divided it, used only the then unproven - and new AMS as a method, so all their systematic errors were inevitably correlated. Halls refused even to get the most competent lab on radio dating in the UK (which was not his...) which was Harwell involved. They didnt even heed their own teams comments on the samples where they noted they "looked different" from the rest of the shroud! There are plenty of notes made by the daters that called their own work into question. Yet their reservations were not realeased till well later.

They Then had the temerity to present a result not even critical of their own reservations about it. Putting shroud testing back a decade, and bringing science into disrepute.

Why? Like Dawkins...they were not interested in knowing the date of the shroud, they were only interested in dating as anything other than first century. Preferably mediaeval, so when their error confirmed their prejudice they failed to look deeper.

Halls should have been sacked.

To this day the only way anyone has managed to replicate the mark chemistry, that is a very shallow oxidation is a high energy UV radiation burst by laser. And the image is clearly non contact. So must have been short radiation burst , and the only way you can get a focussed radiation mark is coherent radiation (like laser)

Lasers were only invented in the 21st century.
The pre and post mortem pathology on the shroud and sudarium were not even known in forensic science till the 21 st century either
How was a forger supposed to have done it?

Fact is whenever science comes close to anything with theistic overtones it completely loses objectivity. Dawkins has made a fortune with pseudoscience , doing just that.

If you read into to who stood to make or loose money in the forms of grants it meant that only by lying could they guarantee tens of thousands of pounds for the labs/universities carrying out the work.

Btw please watch the documentary. Prof. Giulio Fanti explains how his experiments proved that the image was created by a burst of plasma energy rather than radiation.

 

[Ken Behrens]

The date only proves when the shroud was made, not when it was used. And even that, the scientist doing the testing chose which tests to average out.

Lasers may well have existed in the Biblical period. Modern Physics and the Shamir Before you say it's just a legend, ask yourself how the Talmud got a description of what it could do.

 

[Hank77]

Well it seems to me that the power of the Holy Spirit was such that it could cause Mary's egg to take on life then the power of the Holy Spirit in the Resurrection could have cause what we see in the shroud.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Well it seems to me that the power of the Holy Spirit was such that it could cause Mary's egg to take on life then the power of the Holy Spirit in the Resurrection could have cause what we see in the shroud.

Yes it was the power that emanated from Jesus' resurrection that produced the image. The experiments show that only plasma can replicate all the peculiar properties of the image on the shroud. Please watch the documentary to see this.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

The date only proves when the shroud was made, not when it was used. And even that, the scientist doing the testing chose which tests to average out.

Lasers may well have existed in the Biblical period. Modern Physics and the Shamir Before you say it's just a legend, ask yourself how the Talmud got a description of what it could do.

The date only proves when the shroud was made, not when it was used. And even that, the scientist doing the testing chose which tests to average out.

Lasers may well have existed in the Biblical period. Modern Physics and the Shamir Before you say it's just a legend, ask yourself how the Talmud got a description of what it could do.

The experiments show that only plasma can replicate all the peculiar properties of the image on the shroud, not lazers. Please watch the documentary to see this. Plasma technology was only invented in the last 60 years.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Have you ever studied the shamir technology cross-culturally?

 

[kepha31]

'To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.'
Thomas Aquinas

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Have you ever studied the shamir technology cross-culturally?

I've looked at this before, regarding the Mayan/Aztec civilisations and it's possible use in stone cutting and building as well as Solomon's temple but have yet to see verifiable evidence.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

'To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.'
Thomas Aquinas

You obviously didn't watch the documentary.

 

[Mountainmike]

Have now watched. Fascinating, thanks for finding.
I had seen fantis dating tests before in his book, and on the web.
But Not his work on the corona discharge.

It is strange that Fanti does not discuss this is his book on the shroud of 2015- which primarily concerns dating.

And...I only update myself on where the shroud is at every couple of years, and have not done so in the last couple of years, for all that , the corona discharge science / experiments predate that, so I am even more surprised I missed this - the only viable mark science I have seen before this was made was by UV laser, which hinted at very high energy "population inversion" in the atoms of the body of the cadavre.

I look forward to Fanti publishing another volume on corona discharge

I have to say though...

I find that AHC documentary irritating in the EXTREME!.
I know they have to create a good story, but they make Fanti sound like the one who single handedly discovered all of the discrepancies in the shroud date story. But there were many involved in the back story that led to his work. If he saw further than others , he stood on the shoulders of giants, to quote Newton!

Take. The issue of the hungarian Pray codex, depicting damage on the shroud at least a century early than than the RC date, that was discussed in shroud literature long before the carbon test was done by almost two decades! The pseudoscientists who carbon dated the shroud refused to look at anything that disagreed with their obviously flawed date! Like why did history disagree with them?

Anyway thanks for that...am already downloading papers on it.

The first one to mention corona discharge was a member of the sturp team - john jackson - (who you see briefly in that video) a few years after the sturp findings, but strangely nobody followed up on it as fanti has.
Well done Fanti .
Messing with mega volts is difficult - although a hero of mine..Nikolai Tesla, made a reputation out of astounding people with dangerous experiments at high voltage, normally involving him!


It really annoys me how even supposedly "objective" documentary media like history and national geographic give air time to the completely idiotic like "Da Vinci did it" when the chain of custody well predates him, yet does not give air time to sensible science like this.

And it is mainly because both science and journalists lose objectivity round theistic issues. They are all so vested in their faith of "no God" that they have the worst kind of confirmation bias for anything that supports their position.

If you read into to who stood to make or loose money in the forms of grants it meant that only by lying could they guarantee tens of thousands of pounds for the labs/universities carrying out the work.

Btw please watch the documentary. Prof. Giulio Fanti explains how his experiments proved that the image was created by a burst of plasma energy rather than radiation.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Have now watched. Fascinating, thanks for finding.
I had seen fantis dating tests before in his book, and on the web.
But Not his work on the corona discharge.

It is strange that Fanti does not discuss this is his book on the shroud of 2015- which primarily concerns dating.

And...I only update myself on where the shroud is at every couple of years, and have not done so in the last couple of years, for all that , the corona discharge science / experiments predate that, so I am even more surprised I missed this - the only viable mark science I have seen before this was made was by UV laser, which hinted at very high energy "population inversion" in the atoms of the body of the cadavre.

I look forward to Fanti publishing another volume on corona discharge

I have to say though...

I find that AHC documentary irritating in the EXTREME!.
I know they have to create a good story, but they make Fanti sound like the one who single handedly discovered all of the discrepancies in the shroud date story. But there were many involved in the back story that led to his work. If he saw further than others , he stood on the shoulders of giants, to quote Newton!

Take. The issue of the hungarian Pray codex, depicting damage on the shroud at least a century early than than the RC date, that was noticed before the carbon test by almost two decades! The pseudoscientists who carbon dated the shroud refused to look at anything that disagreed with their obviously flawed date! Like why did history disagree with them?

Anyway thanks for that...am already downloading papers on it.

The first one to mention corona discharge was a member of the sturp team - john jackson - (who you see briefly in that video) a few years after the sturp findings, but strangely nobody followed up on it as fanti has.
Well done Fanti .
Messing with mega volts is difficult - although a hero of mine..Nikolai Tesla, made a reputation out of astounding people with dangerous experiments at high voltage, normally involving him!


It really annoys me how even supposedly "objective" documentary media like history and national geographic give air time to the completely idiotic like "Da Vinci did it" when the chain of custody well predates him, yet does not give air time to sensible science like this.

And it is mainly because both science and journalists lose objectivity round theistic issues. They are all so vested in their faith of "no God" that they have the worst kind of confirmation bias for anything that supports their position.

Great post. I too only look at this now and then and noticed Fanti in 2015. I know I read how money played a role in why the 1988 Oxford three decided to go with the date despite the obvious flaws in where the samples were taken from. I tried to find it again but it is alluding me right now. It involved the grants they received and having meeting certain conditions set by those who provided those grants.

 

[Ken Behrens]

I've looked at this before, regarding the Mayan/Aztec civilizations and it's possible use in stone cutting and building as well as Solomon's temple but have yet to see verifiable evidence.

It is not quite what you are looking for, but first consider that khnemu-neter of the serpent jar room at Dendara (mentioned in the Hebrew of Ps. 78:47 as causing frost) is an identical translation of the Aztec xiucoatl, and is identical in shape and size to those in the hands of the Atlantean gods at Tula, and appears to have a similar function to the shamir. The translation is impossible without the assumption of a single legend at least (if not a device itself) making it across the ocean. Then there is the new discovery of the engraving in the thummim we cannot duplicate. BIN EXCLUSIVE: Prophetic Lost Stone From High Priest’s Breastplate Believed Found After 1,000-Year Journey

 

[Mountainmike]

Great post. I too only look at this now and then and noticed Fanti in 2015. I know I read how money played a role in why the 1988 Oxford three decided to go with the date despite the obvious flaws in where the samples were taken from. I tried to find it again but it is alluding me right now. It involved the grants they received and having meeting certain conditions set by those who provided those grants.

By the way...you may have missed it in the presentations, but whilst corona discharge is the effect that elevates electron states, it is the UV light that actually marks the fabric, which results from energy emitted as light when electrons fall back into high energy states, so is similar to the UV laser hypothesis in marking mechanism. The difference is , that CD by itself also explains the image distribution, not just the shallow fibre oxidation, so is a more complete hypothesis.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

By the way...you may have missed it in the presentations, but whilst corona discharge is the effect that elevates electron states, it is the UV light that actually marks the fabric, which results from energy emitted as light when electrons fall back into high energy states, so is similar to the UV laser hypothesis in marking mechanism. The difference is , that CD by itself also explains the image distribution, not just the shallow fibre oxidation, so is a more complete hypothesis.

Okay, I'm no physicist, although I originally googled the difference and got this:

Plasma consists of electrically charged particles, whereas radiation is EM photons. Plasmas are more destructive. Energetic EM radiation can, however, generate plasmas in earth's atmosphere.

Reference Difference Between Plasma and Radiation

I see there is a difference but I don't pretend to understand the processes.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

repeat