"proof For A Pre-trib Rapture"

[Ben johnson]

if you want to be a 'spectator' while the tribulation is happening, help yourself. But you'll be glad you dont have to when Jesus takes you up.

Consider the consequences of being wrong in each of the two beliefs, "PRE" and "POST".

1. POST---being wrong, means a very pleasant surprise---we would be rescued and removed. Major rejoice, no problem.

2. PRE---being wrong, means fully expecting a "rescue"---and then finding oneself facing torture and execution. Will the natural (average) response be to recognize one's OWN error, or will the believer be inclined to feel as though God has forsaken him or her? Can one who "counts on escape", be emotionally prepared for the great persecution?

There are no Scriptures that present themselves as "smoking guns" in support of "Pre-Trib-Rapture". But there are many that lean very heavily towards "post". There is no bad consequence for "post", but for "pre"---combine the possibility of error, with the Scriptural assertion that "salvation can be rejected by a true believer"---and we are speaking of no less than the eternal future of our brethren.

Please help me to understand how passages such as 2Thess2 can be understood in a "pre-Trib" view? (Please see post#26)...

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Originally posted by Ben johnson
Have we discussed 2Thess2 yet? "Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together..." What does Paul mean by "OUR GATHERING TOGETHER"? This says, "The COMING (presence) of Christ and our gathering together TO HIM." How could this mean anything BUT the Rapture?

OUR GATHERING TOGETHER. Paul was aware of how we are to be "caught up" (HARPAZO) to meet with Christ in the air, when He COMES AGAIN. When Christ comes, on clouds of glory, He gathers---first the dead-in-Christ, then the living believers. There is no other possible gathering-together.

This is the Rapture, the return of Christ, the "harpazo-catching-away" of 1Thess4:16-17.

There is no being "caught up" in this, as you assume there is.  This gathering is no promise of a rapture.  Christ will gather His church for the second coming as the nations will also be gathered, even including the goats.  This is no rapture, but if you wish to believe it is, I hope you are ready in case you are wrong.  The only wise choice, is to be ready now and always!!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Prophet Jeremiah does not saying, 'Jacob's trouble' of Jer. 30:7 is 7 year of Tribulaiton period.

You have to read whole of Jermeiah chapter 29 and 30 is talking about captivity under Babylon. It already fulfilled around 500's B.C. the time before Daniel wrote book while he was captivity in Babylon.

Jer. 30:7 already fulfilled, that day, Babylon invaded Israel and Jerusalem, many Jews were killed, captured to become captivity, the first temple was destroyed. Then later, they shall be saved out of it- already fulfilled. That the Jews were finally freed from captivity from Babylon. They returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt second temple - time of Ezra. Then shortly llater, the walls rebuilt around Jerusalem - time of Nehemiah.

Jer. 30:7 have do nothing with the future seven year of Tribulation period.

The context of Jeremiah chapter 29 and 30 is focus on captivity under Babylon.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib
Prophet Jeremiah does not saying, 'Jacob's trouble' of Jer. 30:7 is 7 year of Tribulaiton period.

You have to read whole of Jermeiah chapter 29 and 30 is talking about captivity under Babylon. It already fulfilled around 500's B.C. the time before Daniel wrote book while he was captivity in Babylon.

Jer. 30:7 already fulfilled, that day, Babylon invaded Israel and Jerusalem, many Jews were killed, captured to become captivity, the first temple was destroyed. Then later, they shall be saved out of it- already fulfilled. That the Jews were finally freed from captivity from Babylon. They returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt second temple - time of Ezra. Then shortly llater, the walls rebuilt around Jerusalem - time of Nehemiah.

Jer. 30:7 have do nothing with the future seven year of Tribulation period.

The context of Jeremiah chapter 29 and 30 is focus on captivity under Babylon.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

Fish ain't bitin'!!  Maybe you should take a look at Daniel 9:24-27, and especially verse 27.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Daniel 9:24-27 already fulfilled at Calvary.

The context of Dan. 9:24-27 is focus on ONE person - Messiah is Jesus Christ, not Antichrist.

The context of Dan. 9:24-27 do not saying anything about two persons - Messiah and Antichrist.

Dan. 9:24 prosphesy about Calvary. Christ who shall put sins to ned, and to make everlasting righteousness(salvation), he reconciled our sins through the Calvary. It already fulfilled at Calvary 2000 years ago.

Seventy week - seventy times seven - 70 x 7 = 490 years. I believe Daniel wrote that book while he was captivity in Babylon about nearly 500 years before Christ.


Dan. 9:25 already fulfilled, Jerusalem was rebuilt and the walls around Jerusalem were rebuilt. Ezra and Nehemiah came to Jerusalem to rebuilt them. It already fulfilled. Ezra and his group came to Jerusalem to rebuilt second temple. Then, Nehemiah and his group came to Jerusalem to rebuilt walls around Jerusalem.

Dan. 9:26 already fulfilled Messiah was cut off - Calvary. Christ was cut off AFTER 69th week, means he was cruciified during 70th week.

'Prince' is Messiah - Dan. 9:25 Jesus is the Prince. Prince is not Antichrist.

Dan. 9:27 - already fulfilled, Christ made covenant with many - Mark 14:24 for Calvary to forgive all our sins away. Christ made covenant with many - not just for Jews only, also WHOLE world - John 3:16.

In the midst of the week, he caused offerings, sacrifices to stopped.

Does Christ caused the offerings and sacrifices to stopped?

Yes.

When Christ was on the cross, he yelled, it is "IT IS FINISHED" - John 19:30.

After Jesus gave up his soul, sudden, the veil of the temple tear down from top to bottom - Mark 15:37-38.

God did ended offerings, sacrifices at the temple.

John said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will rasie it up." - John 2:19.

Jesus said, he will destroy the temple, and he will rasie it up. He spoken of his body will be raise in three days.

We do not need building of the temple. Jesus IS the temple now. We are the temple of God - 1 Cor. 3:16-17; and 6:19-20.

Does Jesus allow the building of the temple to be destroyed? Yes. In 70 A.D., Rome invaded Jerusalem, and destroyed the building of temple - fulfilled in Matt 24:2.

Because God do not need offerings and sacrifices anymore. because Jesus is the Lamb. Also, Christ IS the temple. We are priests, we have right to ask Christ to forgive our sins daily 24 hours. We are the temple of God.

Daniel 9:27 have do nothing with future seven year of Tribulation. It was fulfilled by Calvary through Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

There is no gap time between Dan. 9:26 & 27.

Christ was cut off AFTER 69th week, obivously, he was cut during 70th week!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib


Dan. 9:26 already fulfilled Messiah was cut off - Calvary. Christ was cut off AFTER 69th week, means he was cruciified during 70th week. 

Wrong, dead wrong.  He was cut off and crucified after only 69 weeks.  So was His kingdom.  Now His kingdom will not come until after the 70th week of Jacob's trouble.  You tripped right over the truth here.