Profaning God's name

[Ken Rank]

One of the phrases that repeats many times in the bible, and is one that I believe is very misunderstood in the West, is "in the name of." In the West, especially in the US, the idea of "name" has far more weight on "what we call somebody" rather than the character or reputation of that person.

In Hebrew, it is reversed... shem (name) is dealing more with the name bearer's character, reputation, and authority. So, to "walk in the name of the Lord" ends up having nothing to do with saying or not saying YHWH (Yahweh, Jehovah, Lord, God, whatever you prefer). Instead, since shem/name is dealing with character, reputation and authority... walking in God's name means walking in a manner consistent with His character, in a manner that adds to His reputation, or is within His will/authority. When the world hears Him in your words, and sees Him in your actions, you are walking in and even exalting His name.

On the other hand, profaning His name is walking in a manner that is not consistent with His character. It can also be acting in a manner that takes from His reputation or has you walking outside of His will or authority. That is profaning His name... profaning His character, reputation, or authority.

Another way you can profane His name... by causing division and strife among the body. If you read Proverbs 6:16-19 you'll find that of the things God "hates".... causing strife (or discord) among brethren is listed. If God hates that, then that is outside of His will... is in contrast to His character, and does not add to His reputation. Thus if we get into some heated debate and cause strife and division among other believers over some doctrinal point that is probably far more important to us than it is God... we are profaning His name and need to repent.

We all, myself included, need to consider this when we get offended on forums such as this. We can bless and we can curse... ourselves, each other, and God.

May our words bless and edify and exalt His name.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Thus if we get into some heated debate and cause strife and division among other believers over some doctrinal point that is probably far more important to us than it is God...

I would have to disagree with you on the importance of doctrine to the Lord Jesus Christ base on just two examples in scripture.

Matthew 25: King James Version (KJV)
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

They believed as they were there for the wedding, but what did they believe. Evidently not sound doctrine.

Matthew 7: King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They believed but what did they believe. Evidently not sound doctrine.

Thus if we get into some heated debate and cause strife and division among other believers

I do believe that the strife and division is caused by those that do not believe sound doctrine but the traditions of men. When they hear the truth they fall back on mans tradition. This causes the strife and division that you speak of not on the part of sound doctrine but because they believe a lie (tradition) and they are rejecting the Holy Spirit as demonstrated by the Bible verses quoted above. IMHO

 

[Ken Rank]

I would have to disagree with you on the importance of doctrine to the Lord Jesus Christ base on just two examples in scripture.

Matthew 25: King James Version (KJV)
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

They believed as they were there for the wedding, but what did they believe. Evidently not sound doctrine.

Matthew 7: King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They believed but what did they believe. Evidently not sound doctrine.



I do believe that the strife and division is caused by those that do not believe sound doctrine but the traditions of men. When they hear the truth they fall back on mans tradition. This causes the strife and division that you speak of not on the part of sound doctrine but because they believe a lie (tradition) and they are rejecting the Holy Spirit as demonstrated by the Bible verses quoted above. IMHO

Let me ask you a simple question.... 5 years ago, did you know as much as you know today or less? In 5 years, do you expect to have grown in understanding some more or remain exactly where you are now. Is the current version of "you" the one we should all adhere to? The answers are obvious...

The point is... on some things, you don't even agree with your former self and would be at odds with things you might yet learn. To expect that each and every one of us are to be on the same page at the same time is not realistic. Sound doctrine is important but seeing nobody but Yeshua has been perfected YET, then nobody is perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be.

A new believer drinks milk, a mature believer eats meat. Two DIFFERENT meals, and yet still eating from God's table. Being on the journey (having come in faith and are now walking with God as best we understand) is enough for us to embrace one another... and to shun one who is on the journey but who lacks understanding is to divide the body... that is wrong and it profanes the name of God.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Let me ask you a simple question.... 5 years ago, did you know as much as you know today or less? In 5 years, do you expect to have grown in understanding some more or remain exactly where you are now. Is the current version of "you" the one we should all adhere to? The answers are obvious...

The point is... on some things, you don't even agree with your former self and would be at odds with things you might yet learn. To expect that each and every one of us are to be on the same page at the same time is not realistic. Sound doctrine is important but seeing nobody but Yeshua has been perfected YET, then nobody is perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be.

A new believer drinks milk, a mature believer eats meat. Two DIFFERENT meals, and yet still eating from God's table. Being on the journey (having come in faith and are now walking with God as best we understand) is enough for us to embrace one another... and to shun one who is on the journey but who lacks understanding is to divide the body... that is wrong and it profanes the name of God.

Ken

Most of the folks that read these post are not at the stage they are drinking milk. My post was addressing doctrine that is from the Word of the LORD and not from tradition.

 

[Ken Rank]

Ken

Most of the folks that read these post are not at the stage they are drinking milk. My post was addressing doctrine that is from the Word of the LORD and not from tradition.

But again... you have not been perfected and if you think your understanding is without flaw, then you are saying you have already been perfected. We have certain basics in our faith that bind us as brothers and are not negotiable. But when it comes to things beyond that, then my point stands. Let me give an example...

As a 7th day Adventist, you believe the Sabbath was not moved and you observe it on the 7th day, not the first. Does that mean that a Christian who loves the Lord but who is wrong about the 1st day needs to be shunned and avoided and must stand outside the camp? Or, do we trust that the Lord will correct them in due course as He promises He will, twice, in Jeremiah?

What about me... I don't believe in a rapture... well, I actually think ours might be more like Phillip's (horizontal) and that, if we are alive at the time, we take part in a second and greater exodus at the end of the tribulation. You might believe there is a pre-trib rapture and somebody else might believe a mid-trib... do we divide from each other? No... to do so is to break up the body of Christ over something that really doesn't matter.

We can divide over somebody who was in the faith but who walked away from the Lord and attempts to take others with him. Or who tries to force others to adhere to his own understanding. But differences in most doctrine is not enough to break up the body of Christ. We are NOT saved by our doctrine, we are saved by God who, because of His mercy and our faith in Him, makes us His own.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

But again... you have not been perfected and if you think your understanding is without flaw, then you are saying you have already been perfected. We have certain basics in our faith that bind us as brothers and are not negotiable. But when it comes to things beyond that, then my point stands. Let me give an example...

As a 7th day Adventist, you believe the Sabbath was not moved and you observe it on the 7th day, not the first. Does that mean that a Christian who loves the Lord but who is wrong about the 1st day needs to be shunned and avoided and must stand outside the camp? Or, do we trust that the Lord will correct them in due course as He promises He will, twice, in Jeremiah?

What about me... I don't believe in a rapture... well, I actually think ours might be more like Phillip's (horizontal) and that, if we are alive at the time, we take part in a second and greater exodus at the end of the tribulation. You might believe there is a pre-trib rapture and somebody else might believe a mid-trib... do we divide from each other? No... to do so is to break up the body of Christ over something that really doesn't matter.

We can divide over somebody who was in the faith but who walked away from the Lord and attempts to take others with him. Or who tries to force others to adhere to his own understanding. But differences in most doctrine is not enough to break up the body of Christ. We are NOT saved by our doctrine, we are saved by God who, because of His mercy and our faith in Him, makes us His own.

Sir I do not divide the LORD does,

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Put this verse with the verses I quoted in a previous post above. In light of the previous verses who do you think the tares are that are among us. What distinguishes the tares from the wheat? Could it be the doctrines of the Lord Jesus Christ which is his character.

Matthew 10:33-35King James Version (KJV)
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

As a 7th day Adventist, you believe the Sabbath was not moved and you observe it on the 7th day, not the first. Does that mean that a Christian who loves the Lord but who is wrong about the 1st day needs to be shunned and avoided and must stand outside the camp?

Absolutely not

The day will come where the Sabbath will be a defining issue. When you see Worship laws instituted then it will be a eternal life or second death issue.
Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

What about me... I don't believe in a rapture... well, I actually think ours might be more like Phillip's (horizontal) and that, if we are alive at the time, we take part in a second and greater exodus at the end of the tribulation. You might believe there is a pre-trib rapture and somebody else might believe a mid-trib... do we divide from each other? No... to do so is to break up the body of Christ over something that really doesn't matter.

the SDA do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.

One the teachings you mention has to be wrong (if not both) as the truth can not have two or more explanations. Satan is a counterfeiter and the father of lies.

every doctrine in the Bible matters either you accept it or a counterfeit teaching so it does matter to Jesus which you accept.

Remember what Jesus said,
Matthew 7: King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Those he rejected were part of the "body of Christ" prior to the end of probation. So it does matter.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

We are NOT saved by our doctrine, we are saved by God who, because of His mercy and our faith in Him, makes us His own.

Those he rejected state that they did all those things in his name did they not? So why did he reject them? What was their faith in him?
To be his own you have to love him and this is the definition of Love by the Lord
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[mathinspiration]

Saying God in vain is disrespectful.

 

[Ron Gurley]

You mix up / conflate issues:

1. A Mosaic Law commandment:

Exodus 20:7
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

2. the tongue / life needs spiritual control

James 3 (NASB)
8 But no one can tame the tongue;
it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and
with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;
10 from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,
that I have set before you
life and death,
the blessing and the curse.
So CHOOSE LIFE in order that you may live,
you and your descendants,

 

[Ken Rank]

the SDA do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.

One the teachings you mention has to be wrong (if not both) as the truth can not have two or more explanations. Satan is a counterfeiter and the father of lies.

every doctrine in the Bible matters either you accept it or a counterfeit teaching so it does matter to Jesus which you accept.

Remember what Jesus said,
Matthew 7: King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Those he rejected were part of the "body of Christ" prior to the end of probation. So it does matter.

It was an example and you are proving that some people are just not capable of having a discussion. They have to be correct and everyone else must conform to them. That is what I stand against... Denominations rally around a common belief, families rally around a common father. I don't seek to join a denomination or sect of Christianity, I seek to be part of the family of the God of Israel.

Be blessed and take care.

 

[Ken Rank]

You mix up / conflate issues:

1. A Mosaic Law commandment:

Exodus 20:7
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

2. the tongue / life needs spiritual control

James 3 (NASB)
8 But no one can tame the tongue;
it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and
with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;
10 from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,
that I have set before you
life and death,
the blessing and the curse.
So CHOOSE LIFE in order that you may live,
you and your descendants,

What are you saying I am mixing up? If in Hebrew (Exodus) the word shem (name) appears... then we have to use the Hebrew definition and not our 21st century English definition. So... shem deals with the name bearers character, reputation, and authority. Walking in God's name is walking in a manner that reflects His character, is according to His will, and adds to His reputation. Profaning His name is the opposite... not reflecting His character, taking from His reputation, walking outside His will. Being baptized into His name isn't being immersed into letters or a word... it is being immersed into His authority over death. Praying in His name isn't using a magic word at the end of a prayer, that if said, God now has to act (that makes Him a genie). All of this is consistent with the Hebrew understanding of shem... name.

So... not taking His name in vain must be first clarified. "Take" isn't a good translation... just look it up yourself. The Hebrew word is nasah which means to lift up, carry, elevate. We are not to elevate the character/reputation/authority of God in a manner that makes it worthless. And how do we do that? By claiming to be His... and then walking out the door and denying Him by our lifestyle.

 

[Ken Rank]

Saying God in vain is disrespectful.

"God" is not His name.... and while yes, using that word improperly is most certainly disrespectful, it isn't what "taking His name in vain" means. See my post above this one.

 

[Gottservant]

One of the phrases that repeats many times in the bible, and is one that I believe is very misunderstood in the West, is "in the name of."

[...]

We all, myself included, need to consider this when we get offended on forums such as this. We can bless and we can curse... ourselves, each other, and God.

May our words bless and edify and exalt His name.

This really blessed me.

I have struggled with honouring God, a lot.

This broadened my perspective.