Prof: White Anti-Racism Shares Traits with White Nationalist Hate Groups

[Hank77]

Oh, completely. I think most interracial relationship are not occupied by racists. And for the most part, any racial tension that comes up in such relationships is more from pressures outside than from attitudes or views held by either person in the couple. However, I think people that have a fetishized view of another race or ethnic group don't get too far in dating someone of another skin color.

Oh good, I didn't think that was what you were saying, but I needed to clear it up.

 

[rambot]

If the market can’t take care of it, then it’s safe to say that the majority of Americans just don’t care, or don’t believe it to be that big of an issue.

Oh boy, do I love reading articles in college papers written by undergrads (the author is a sophomore) - almost as much as I love reading long-form debates on Twitter.

I'd be interested in reading a better summary of his research that actually explains what his conclusions mean.

whew right? Thank you. 1) A good way for dude to get instant notoriety.
2) 45 Interviews; sounds like he speaks more for the individuals he interviewed and the two specific groups than making any broad brush comments
3) A sophmore with a bowtie? I try not to be a bowtieist but honestly...sometimes they're just so....beneath me.

 

[Redac]

So even when white people try to be part of the popular anti-racist thing, they're still doing it wrong and need to... what, step aside?

There's an implication that "whiteness" itself is problematic and needs to be examined, critiqued, or even abolished. What exactly would that entail?

 

[rambot]

So even when white people try to be part of the popular anti-racist thing, they're still doing it wrong and need to... what, step aside?

There's an implication that "whiteness" itself is problematic and needs to be examined, critiqued, or even abolished. What exactly would that entail?

Read the article. The study could never POSSIBLY claim that. This was a "compare and contrast" essay of two different groups based on interviews with participants.

 

[Redac]

Read the article. The study could never POSSIBLY claim that. This was a "compare and contrast" essay of two different groups based on interviews with participants.

I did. I'm referring to this section:

From his research, Hughey identified “common denominators that link or bind whiteness to itself” — various similarities between the ideologies of the members of the NEA and the WRJ.

“There is a supra-ideal of what whiteness should be,” he said, “that is, dominant social expectations and accountabilities associated with whiteness exist across different and even supposedly antagonistic social fields.”

It then goes on to list things that are clearly supposed to be seen as things to be examined and changed.

Perhaps I'm reading more into it is explicitly stated, but when academic types talk about "whiteness" in this fashion, it's almost always through a critical and antagonistic lens. Whiteness studies, more radical people talking about abolishing whiteness, and so on. It's a pattern that repeats often.

 

[rambot]

I did. I'm referring to this section:



It then goes on to list things that are clearly supposed to be seen as things to be examined and changed.

Perhaps I'm reading more into it is explicitly stated, but when academic types talk about "whiteness" in this fashion, it's almost always through a critical and antagonistic lens. Whiteness studies, more radical people talking about abolishing whiteness, and so on. It's a pattern that repeats often.

Oh sure he did. Of COURSE he did. Find me someone in academia who want to argue that their research really only applies to a small section (or, dare it be, only what their research indicates).

I have very little interest in what he hopes to extend into society. But that's just me,.

 

[Hammster]

whew right? Thank you. 1) A good way for dude to get instant notoriety.
2) 45 Interviews; sounds like he speaks more for the individuals he interviewed and the two specific groups than making any broad brush comments
3) A sophmore with a bowtie? I try not to be a bowtieist but honestly...sometimes they're just so....beneath me.

Um...why was I quoted?

 

[rambot]

Um...why was I quoted?

Oops. Sorry. Iwas going to reply and I missed it guess.

 

[SummerMadness]

There's a difference between white people and whiteness. White people is a descriptive term, but whiteness refers to the categorization of people into a racial hierarchy placing white people at the top and everyone else below that. Whiteness is not static, that's why there was a time when European Jews and Irish people were classified as less than white because it's a fluid system of superiority. It has nothing to do with European culture or customs and has everything to do with racism. Abolishing whiteness would also mean abolishing blackness because it too is part of this hierarchy where black is almost always placed at the bottom.

 

[GUANO]

He had to specify "white" so that he wasn't called out as being a racist---even though he's being racist LOL.

 

[Moral Orel]

What other white groups are left, aside from the supremacists and the anti-racists?

I dunno, cucks like me who don't feel a need to join a group based on being white? I mean, what's the point? Being white is great. It would be a lie to join a group to complain about being white, and it would be pretty braggadocios to join a group to celebrate it.

I'm a straight white male between the ages of 18-45. Hakuna matata, man.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There's a difference between white people and whiteness. White people is a descriptive term, but whiteness refers to the categorization of people into a racial hierarchy placing white people at the top and everyone else below that.

Nonsense. Whiteness no more refers to a racial hierarchy with whites at the top than "blackness" refers to a racial hierarchy with blacks at the top. Ridiculous.

Whiteness is not static, that's why there was a time when European Jews and Irish people were classified as less than white because it's a fluid system of superiority. It has nothing to do with European culture or customs and has everything to do with racism. Abolishing whiteness would also mean abolishing blackness because it too is part of this hierarchy where black is almost always placed at the bottom.

You can't "abolish" thoughts or ideas...nor would I want to live in a place that tries to.

As for the article, a sociologist went looking for similarities between two groups and "surprise" he found some. So what?

People need to understand the limits of what sociological research instead of placing so much importance on it. Conclusions are merely suggestions about reality...not facts. Sociology is a soft science for that very reason.

 

[Rion]

There's a difference between white people and whiteness. White people is a descriptive term, but whiteness refers to the categorization of people into a racial hierarchy placing white people at the top and everyone else below that. Whiteness is not static, that's why there was a time when European Jews and Irish people were classified as less than white because it's a fluid system of superiority. It has nothing to do with European culture or customs and has everything to do with racism. Abolishing whiteness would also mean abolishing blackness because it too is part of this hierarchy where black is almost always placed at the bottom.

So when black people refer to "blackness" are they doing the same thing?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I dunno, cucks like me who don't feel a need to join a group based on being white? I mean, what's the point? Being white is great. It would be a lie to join a group to complain about being white, and it would be pretty braggadocios to join a group to celebrate it.

I'm a straight white male between the ages of 18-45. Hakuna matata, man.

While I see where you're coming from...that is the essence of identity politics.

You cannot say that blacks, latinos, asians, native americans, or any group should get together and promote their specific interests while at the same time saying whites shouldn't do the same. It's hypocritical and frankly, the whole problem with identity politics to begin with.

 

[SummerMadness]

So when black people refer to "blackness" are they doing the same thing?

Where did the concept of blackness come from? Does blackness have the same history as whiteness? If blackness was part of a racial hierarchy used to socially, economically, and politically benefit a specific group while preventing others from enjoying those benefits, then yes, blackness would be interchangeable.

 

[Rion]

Where did the concept of blackness come from? Does blackness have the same history as whiteness? If blackness was part of a racial hierarchy used to socially, economically, and politically benefit a specific group while preventing others from enjoying those benefits, then yes, blackness would be interchangeable.

It arose in connection to the Black Power movement, which was directly tied to the rejection of non-violent protests and Christian morals, along with rejecting Christianity altogether as a 'white religion.'

 

[Moral Orel]

While I see where you're coming from...that is the essence of identity politics.

You cannot say that blacks, latinos, asians, native americans, or any group should get together and promote their specific interests while at the same time saying whites shouldn't do the same. It's hypocritical and frankly, the whole problem with identity politics to begin with.

I'm against identity politics for practical reasons, not idealogical ones. Most of the time the problem being advocated against can be tackled without bringing up race. So I'm not defending them per se, but that being said, it is not hypocritical in the least.

Imagine a group of poor people got together and said, "Hey, things are really bad for us. There are things we need that we just can't afford. Things that lots of other people have, but we don't, and we can't get for ourselves. We need help from the people that have it better off than us financially."

And then a group of rich people got together and said, "Hey, things are really great for us, but they should be better. We have everything we need, but there are things we want that we can't afford. We already have all the good things that everyone else has and deserves and never have to worry about not having them, but we need help from everyone else."

Some complaints are legitimate, some complaints are not. Complaining about how hard it is to be white is not a legitimate complaint. You're making a false equivalency of how legitimate the claims between all these groups are.

 

[SummerMadness]

It arose in connection to the Black Power movement, which was directly tied to the rejection of non-violent protests and Christian morals, along with rejecting Christianity altogether as a 'white religion.'

Your answer demonstrates that it does not have the same history as whiteness. It was a movement that arose from racial oppression, seeking to instill racial pride (because African Americans were always told they were inferior) and self-sufficiency. The most extreme elements of this movement are black supremacists, but they have never typified senses of blackness. This stands into contrast with whiteness, which was about defining the group that was at the top of society. Movements for racial equality, which include ending slavery, giving black people the right to vote, ending segregation, etc., all served to dismantle whiteness.

 

[Rion]

Your answer demonstrates that it does not have the same history as whiteness. It was a movement that arose from racial oppression, seeking to instill racial pride (because African Americans were always told they were inferior) and self-sufficiency. The most extreme elements of this movement are black supremacists, but they have never typified senses of blackness. This stands into contrast with whiteness, which was about defining the group that was at the top of society. Movements for racial equality, which include ending slavery, giving black people the right to vote, ending segregation, etc., all served to dismantle whiteness.

They started it, but they totally don't typify it?

...okay.

 

[SummerMadness]

"They started it, but they totally don't typify it."

...okay.

You did not quote me, so do not attempt a "fixed it for ya" response.