• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Problem with Christians, some equate knowing the bible with knowing Jesus. This is false.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Rodo7777777, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    True but some so-called Christians says things and act ways, that make me think they are offspring (begotten) from the Pharisees, and NOT the seed of Jesus.
     
  2. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    So true my sister.
     
  3. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Many do so without thinking about what they are saying....But I see by your comment, that you missed my point, I am sorry I have done my best to explain it and have failed you.
     
  4. THE W

    THE W AFRIKANB0T

    +2,393
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Single
  5. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

    +1,190
    Christian
    Married
    It's a good thing that God doesn't see them as you do.

    And where did you get the idea that Christians are "the seed of Jesus"? It's not in the Bible.
     
  6. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

    +1,190
    Christian
    Married
    Rodo7777777, when you say...

    "This devotion to doctrines, denominations, and other such religious things is idolatry, and dangerous since it divides the body of Christ, and is nothing more than religious pride"

    ... aren't you being judgmental, self-righteously criticizing other Christians?
     
  7. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

    +7,059
    Australia
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    AU-Labor
    I'm a Pharisee in training. Have just started studying the Bible seriously and hope by the end to be fully qualified, come back to Cf and really show those less literate, a thing or two. Look out!
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  8. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I am not alone, others have testified to this truth also:


    John 1:1
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    (The Word is God, not the Bible! Jesus Christ is the Word of God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and there was nothing made without him. John 1:2-3)

    Look how ridiculous this wonderful verse becomes, substituting the word Bible for the word Word.
    In the beginning was the Word Bible, and the Word Bible was with God, and the Word Bible was God.

    The word is a Spirit, Jesus Christ, whose name is the word of God; it is not a scripture.

    For most of Christendom, their faith is in what the Bible says, which is Bible-faith, an outward faith. That is not the faith that the Apostles preached; they preached an inward faith by revelation that is authored by Jesus Christ. The object of both faiths are the same, but the differences are crucial to realize the promises of God. The two faiths are:

    to concur with history in the Bible that Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, etc.; that is outward Bible-faith,

    to hear the Word of God, which word is in your heart to obey — this is the word of faith that the Apostles preached. Hearing and obeying Jesus speak to you from within your heart is operational faith, inward faith, faith given to you by Jesus himself. With persistent obedience to the commands heard from God within your heart, this faith within justifies; purifies, redeems, makes righteous, sanctifies, and saves; to give you peace, joy, and righteousness in union and fellowship with Christ and the Father— this is to see and listen to your beloved, living a holy life that pleases Him.

    In this verse the original Greek (click to see) for "word" in "word of God" is logov <3056> (from logos), and logos or logov means: of speech, a word uttered by a living voice, what someone has said.

    And the word logos appears throughout the bible; often translated as the word but always referring to the spoken words of the Holy Spirit or the spoken words of the Spirit of Jesus. You can click to see the Greek for each verse on this page to verify what Greek word was written, and you can also click on the Greek word itself to see the word's definition.

    Every reference to "the word" or "the word of God" or "the Word of the Lord" in the New Testament is either logos or rhema, both of which mean "words spoken by a living voice."
    Heb 11:3
    Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    The heavens were made by the word of the Lord, and all their host by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6. Notice! The word of the Lord is a "his" — the word is a living being, not a book, not a writing, not the Bible, not a scripture.

    The above two verses prove that the word of God or the word of the Lord is the Lord Jesus Christ, who created all things in heaven and earth, and whose name is "the word of God."

    As George Fox said, "To think the Bible framed the worlds is ridiculous." The word is the Spirit , not a scripture.

    The Greek for word in this (click to see) verse is rhmati or rhema (from rhema) <4487>: 1) that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word; 1a) any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning; 1b) speech, discourse; 1b1) what one has said.

    The word rhema appears throughout the Bible, often translated as the word, but always referring to the spoken words of the Holy Spirit or the spoken words of the Spirit of Jesus. For every verse on this page, you can click to see the Greek Greek word was written in the Greek text to verify the word, and you can also click on the Greek word itself to see the word's definition.

    Every reference to "the word" or "the word of God" or "the Word of the Lord" in the New Testament is either logos or rhema, both of which mean "words spoken by a living voice."

    The Old Testament translators extensively used "word of the Lord " for the word. The New Testament was translated from Greek to English as "the word of God," but they mean the same thing. Both refer to the Lord Jesus Christ, who created all things in heaven and earth, and whose name is "the word of God."

    1 Peter 1:23,25
    23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, by the word of God that lives and lasts forever.

    The Bible does not live and last forever, but Christ, the Word of God, does live and last forever.

    You cannot be born again by scripture, reading or hearing it read; but you can be born again by the Spirit, as you respond to hearing and obeying the Spirit, or the word of God within your heart.

    The word is the Spirit of Jesus, not a scripture.

    The Greek for word in this (click to see) verse is logou (from logos) <3056>: 1) of speech; 1a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea; 1b) what someone has said.

    25 But the word of the Lord endures forever. And this is the word [the word in your heart] by which the gospel is preached to you.

    The Bible does not endure forever, but Christ, the Word of God, does endure forever.

    The gospel is not preached to you by a book of scriptures. The gospel was preached to Abraham by the Lord, and Abraham was before any scripture had been written. The Spirit of Christ, the Word of God, lives, lasts, and endures forever. The gospel was preached (past tense) in every creature under the heaven. Col 1:23. Christ preaches the gospel to every man, as the Spirit, the Word of God, in a man's heart speaks to him.

    The word is the Spirit of Jesus, not a scripture.

    The Greek for word in this (click to see) verse is rhma (from rhema) <4487>: 1) that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word; 1a) any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning; 1b) speech, discourse; 1b1) what one has said

    John 1:14
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt in us; and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only One to come from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    Christ, not the Bible, was made into flesh; the word is clearly not the Bible. The Bible cannot be made flesh, but Jesus was made flesh to come to the earth as a man and is made flesh again when He is fully formed and resurrected in you.

    The word is the Spirit, not a scripture, not a book, not the Bible.

    The Greek for word in this (click to see) verse is logov (from logos) <3056>: 1) of speech; 1a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea; 1b) what someone has said.
     
  9. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    uhhh OK...lol I hope your not serious ?
     
  10. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    No not at all. I am concerned for them... I read many things Jesus says that makes me cringe, and I have said nothing as strong as that.
     
  11. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,624
    Non-Denom
    Private
    So the Word of God just stopped existing when there was no printing press?

    So why is Jesus called the Truth? Does this mean that the person of Jesus Christ as a person is the Truth?

    Why don't you explain it to me.

    Was Jesus Christ the Rock? The Shepherd?

    Am I a sheep? Are you a sheep or a goat?

    Please explain how Jesus is the Life? If Jesus was alive, is that the Life?

    Was Jesus the Lamb? The Son?

    Pls. explain
     
  12. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

    +489
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Where do you get knowledge of God if not from the bible.
    Romans chapter 1 verse 28
    Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
    And where can you get the kind of freedom the next verses offer.
    John chapter 8 verse 31,32
    To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
     
  13. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,846
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    John 1:1

    Technically it did ;)
     
  14. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,624
    Non-Denom
    Private
    So you are calling Christ a word, not the Word. What word is that?

    Why don't you give us a link to the greek so we can view ourselves.
     
  15. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,846
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Yes, it certainly is when those exercises take time from the Christian's life that could be spent in the presence of the Lord.

    Yessir. I'm on my day off and I'm studying and praying and being guided in my studies right now. I'm reaching out to others more specifically so that I can tell them how Jesus restored my life.
     
  16. frienden thalord

    frienden thalord Well-Known Member

    +1,686
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I still remember that day back in may of 06
    I was changed. Then a deep hunger for truth begain. And Grace
    put me right into the bible as I read, only more hunger for truth.
    And the gifts are real. How God would tell me something to tell one.
    And yes they would be like How did you know this. It was not me....IT
    IS the Spirit that knows .
    Sadly their are many who know some scrips, but wat they know
    is not rightly divided. Me, by grace I just love truth.
    and the holy scrips sure make one wise unto salvation through faith in Christ .
    Without Christ the scrips can not be rightly understood.
    But I have a wonderful question.
    HOW does one KNOW they are following Christ and not just some other spirit
    or the flesh. . ANYTIME whatever is revealed , contradicts JESUS sayings
    ITS A LIE FROM HELL.
    BUT if it magnifies , agrees , ITS THE HOLY SPIRIT>
     
  17. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,426
    Christian
    Single
    Laws in the Old Testament were harsh and not always scientific. People thought a woman was made unclean by her period:

    Leviticus 15:19 (WEB) "'If a woman has a discharge, and her discharge in her flesh is blood, she shall be in her impurity seven days: and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. 20 "'Everything that she lies on in her impurity shall be unclean. Everything also that she sits on shall be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. 22 Whoever touches anything that she sits on shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. 23 If it is on the bed, or on anything whereon she sits, when he touches it, he shall be unclean until the evening. 24 "'If any man lies with her, and her monthly flow is on him, he shall be unclean seven days; and every bed whereon he lies shall be unclean.

    The Rabbinical law during the time of Jesus was summed up in the Talmud that was canonized before the New Testament was canonized. This body of laws about a woman's menstrual period was under the title Niddah. The first century Jews dug small ritual cleansing pools into limestone with steps leading down into the water at the bottom of the pools. The Jewish community used these mikveh pools to cleanse themselves. This was not sanitary and likely spread polio, cholera or other water transmitted infections.
    Archaeologists uncovered mikveh pools in Jerusalem that were in use during the first century.

    While some people say the Bible is the inerrant word of God, they may not enforce rules that state a woman makes anything she touches unclean during the time of her period. To do so would force her to be quarantined.

    The Bible is an important book, yet people ignore some of the text and many are not even aware of what is in the Bible. They do not believe God wants them to according to Niddah law in modern times. One may find parts of other religions should be ignored as well. God is alive and knowledge is increasing at a rapid rate. God is truth and not superstition.
     
  18. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Now concerning "The Word" vs "The scriptures"...

    The word and the bible are NOT the same. Today we use the terms "The Word" and "The Bible" as if they are the same thing. The scriptures are true, but God, has to make them real and alive to you, giving revelation of truth.

    Although the bible is true, it has no life apart from God... We see this all throughout the OT and NT... In the OT, it was "the word of the Lord came unto so Jeremiah". In the NT, it was "Peter rise and eat".

    Today the so-called church has defined Christianity by "The Book". Why. Because they can control that, via their so-called doctrines, preaching, and one man shows.

    They have refused for the longest time to let "THE BODY" minister to one another as the Spirit leads, "Speak Lord, here am I"...He may speak by His Spirit, by The Scriptures.

    History and the scriptures themselves prove this to be true. During the dark ages, there was no printing press, and people couldn't read or write. Yet we know there were people who KNEW Christ, there was Madam Guyon, and Jean Nicholas Grou, just to name two.

    Then of course the disciples couldn't read, but they had the living word, in flesh which was Christ. They lived by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God, as should we...Jesus speaks of hearing much more than reading. He also condemns the Pharisees for looking to the scriptures, BUT not being willing to come to Him, the word of life.

    We must come to a common denominator, for people to receive Christ, to experience Christ. And it's NOT The Bible:

    The bible cannot be the one common denominator that leads us into all truth. Because many generations passed with people NOT having access to the scriptures, and many through out time could not read, so the inspiration has to be something else, something everyone could have access to in each age.

    Jesus says my sheep hear my voice, man shall not live by bread alone.

    So One is heard, one is read. Many can read, few can hear. One is always spoken, and one is written.

    Thus we have interchanged the two, elevating "The bible" above God, and the leading of the Spirit, and "The Word"…

    The scriptures, are inspired, but God never meant for us to live by them, but instead by the Spirit of promise, leading us into all truth

    We would have two types of church, both are part of God's plan and draw a contrast with one another for all to see, in the unveiling. One led by the Spirit, hearing his voice, and those seeing and leaning only on "The book".

    I think God is separating HIS people "The Ecclesia from this thing called church, which is churchianity. He is building his kingdom, it is on the inside. That is what Jesus says.

    So change is coming, we will see it soon, and when it happens, it will rip this so-called Christianity from the hands of these corrupt churches and there doctrines will become invalid. Overnight their religious live will become irrelevant, as we see the body of Christ manifest in our midst.

    Light and darkness can not fellowship together, and God does not fellowship with darkness, it is not possible all of those people in all these churches are truly born again via an encounter with Christ. But that encounter must take place...You cannot fellowship with them, for where the Spirit of The Lord is, (in His people) that is the only place you can worship or fellowship. You might as well go to a Safeway store and try and do church with all the people there.

    I love the scriptures, I think they are from God, and are truth, this truth, is revealed by the author, and the author is to be known. The truth is within the text, explained by the same one who wrote it, if we interpret it, we end up with a private interpretation. The author is greater than the book, yet that doesn't diminish the book, or the truth that it contains.

    Today many know the bible, but have never had God become real to them through the scriptures. Most people have never had God make himself known to them even through a beautiful sunset.

    To most God is just history, or he is way off in space somewhere. Maybe God opens the scriptures to you, and makes them come alive, and they became a "word" of God to you.
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +20,905
    Anglican
    Married
    But I doubt that you think the Bible IS Jesus. That's what was suggested.
     
  20. Rodo7777777

    Rodo7777777 Member

    114
    +58
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    We have become a religion of doctrines, of do's and don'ts. The only times we see life in it is during times of revival when God shows up.

    We have sucked the life out of this relationship that God intended to be a very personal love relationship.

    We never hear people talk like they did in the Jesus movement. It has all become cold and sterol.

    We search the scriptures daily, but Jesus condemned that because they wouldn’t come to him.

    Real Christianity knows the difference between "The Word" and "The Bible".

    The bible is kind of a foundation, but the experience of God himself, which happened in the lives of the 1st century believers, happened apart from the bible.

    The bible didn't exist at the beginning of the church, neither did Paul's writings.

    Instead what we see is a ton of people interacting with God, all having a personal relationship with God.

    We see this on the road to Emmaus, it happened to Phillip as he approached the chariot, it happened to Peter as he saw the sheet from Heaven.

    To not see the difference between the word, and the bible is too lose your relationship with God.

    The bible has only been available for a few hundred yrs, and even then most people were illiterate, especially those in the New Testament. Even the disciples were unlearned.

    We must get back to the common denominator.

    What gave life through the Old Testament beginning in the garden, and to the prophets, to David, to those in the 1st century church, to those in the dark ages, to those in Russia, and China when no one had the bible...?

    It was that relationship, the word spoken, it was NOT THE BIBLE.
     
Loading...