LostMarbels
All-Lives-Matter
- Jun 18, 2011
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There is no use. Even if you understand you will twist what I say into yet another question about nothing. No matter what I say, you will stay on your course to derail the topic at hand. Why is it the most self proclaimed rational and open minded peeps cant have a convo without tricks and tactics to try and control the 'opponent'?
You offer nothing, and expect everything. Here, read this post from way back when on that topic:
** REPOST**
What if I told you an Atheist's idea of proving God exists is subjective?
When something is subjective, it is considered a matter of personal opinion. Truth is considered to be independent of personal opinion. That is to say, personal opinion cannot change the truth. Any position that is held that is not unchangeable, immutable, or eternal is opinion; it is not truth.
When someone says, “prove to me that Christianity is true.” They are not asking you proclaim, “In my opinion, Christianity is true.” Instead, they are asking you to prove to them that Christianity is true despite their opinion that Christianity isn’t true. The problem is, the atheist’s burden of proof is an opinion, and one should not test truths using opinions because truths are always true independently of individual opinion or personal conviction.
Now that a description of truth has been given, we should look at the implications of the following statement: “Christianity is true.” When we say Christianity is true, we mean that it is absolutely true. This, of course, means that Christianity is true independently of any individual’s opinion. This, of course, can be said of any true proposition.
When the atheists say, “prove to me that God exists” or “prove to me that Christianity is true,” many of them have a different burden of proof in mind. One might ask, “If God exists, why doesn’t he heal amputees?” Another will ask, “Why is it that God won’t just come down and show himself to me?” Another may say, “If God exists, he can prove himself to me by ridding the world of evil and suffering.” Perhaps another atheist will ignorantly say, “If God exists, he would be testable by the scientific method.” Different atheists will give different levels and conditions concerning what constitutes as meeting the burden of proof.
This is, unfortunately for the atheist, where their request to prove that Christianity is true falls apart. Truth is immutable, unchangeable, and absolute, but the burden of proof that each atheist says they require is completely subjective and nothing more than personal opinion. If we are to be justified in believing in any proposition, we must have a concrete way to test the truth of propositions. A subjective standard will not do. If the burden of proof for any truth is subjective, then anyone can be justified in believing in any proposition, including Christianity, as long as the burden of proof has been met for that individual. If the burden of proof is subjective, then a universal truth cannot be considered universal, rather, all “truths” are a matter of personal opinion.
If the atheist is to hold that we ought to test the truth of propositions in a subjective manner, then no proposition is ultimately provable. The epistemological implications on the atheist worldview is devastating. The obligation that the atheist sets forth for us to meet their own subjective burden of proof destroys their own epistemology. If their epistemology falls, then so too does their objection concerning their burden of proof not being met for Christianity. After all, if no proposition is provable beyond opinion, then all known propositions are opinions. If all propositions are opinions, then the only consistent conclusion concerning epistemology is that no one can know anything at all, thus, such a way of testing propositions leads to skepticism.
Any Christian that has had a discussion with an unbeliever concerning the truth of Christianity has probably been told that it is the Christian’s task to prove the truth of Christianity to an unbeliever. The atheists’ ideas concerning how Christianity might be validated or invalidated are utter nonsense.
First, setting out a Biblical foundation will be appropriate. 1 Peter 3:15 is often quoted, “but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,” Christians are to give a defense of their faith, but they are not obligated to prove to someone else that Christianity is true. Too often, Christians allow atheists to set the parameters concerning what the Christian’s task is in an apologetic situation. We should not base our apologetic on the atheist’s demands, rather, we should focus on the task that God has given us. We are to set scripture as our authority, and give a defense that is consistent with the scriptures.
We are also obligated to show the absurdity of any worldview that is to stand in opposition to God’s authority. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 says, “For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ.” From these verses we have our justification of using logical arguments that show the absurdity of any worldview that stands in opposition to God’s authority.
None of the aforementioned verses, nor any other verses in The Bible, say that the Christian’s task is to convince or prove to someone that Christianity is true. In fact, The Bible clearly teaches that people only come to belief by the power of God himself. For instance, John 6:44 says, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” Matthew 16:17 also says, And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.” There are numerous verses in scripture that teach that God is the one who causes belief in an individual but these two examples will suffice. If it is true that God directly causes belief, then it is not the Christian’s job to attempt to cause belief in Christianity within an unbelieving individual. Instead, our job is to proclaim the truth of Christianity and destroy any worldview that dares to raise its hand against God’s authority. The idea that we have to prove Christianity to an unbeliever assumes a false theology that is not found within scripture. It is God who has given us our task to proclaim the truth of the Gospel, we ought to follow the criteria that God has set forth instead of the criteria given by the unbeliever.
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