Pro-life or pro-choice

[Lik3]

I believe that abortion is wrong. I also believe therefore that there have got to be ways to allow one's baby to be adopted. Having said that, one of the reasons why I am against abortion is because there are some people who believe that a mother's life should be saved. How about doctors trying to save both the mother and the baby? How about abortion not being an option to end a baby's life due to the fact that they may end up having down's syndrome or a developmental defect? Personally I believe it is a cruel thing to do. I do believe that it is a more complex thing morally to many but I have strong views based on scripture and the fact that there are so many women who would love the have children. Many of these women have also lost their babies whether it is through miscarriage or some other reasons. I don't wish to pass ungodly judgment on women who have had abortions performed on them. I believe that they are being deceived by those in power and some who don't believe in Christian values. I wonder where you stand on abortion. Are you pro-life or pro-choice?

 

[Desk trauma]

Having said that, one of the reasons why I am against abortion is because there are some people who believe that a mother's life should be saved. How about doctors trying to save both the mother and the baby?

How about letting the woman whose life and health are on the line chose what their priorities are?

Are you pro-life or pro-choice.

Pro-choice.

 

[jayem]

I'm pro-choice up to a point, and pro-life after that. But I'm less pro-choice than I am anti-criminalization.

 

[roamer_1]

How about letting the woman whose life and health are on the line chose what their priorities are?

To be sure, it is the child's health and life that are on the line, not the woman's.

 

[Desk trauma]

To be sure, it is the child's health and life that are on the line, not the woman's.

In the case of the pregnancy posing a larger then normal threat to her health it is her life on the line. At present she has the choice of if the pregnancy or her health is the priority.

 

[roamer_1]

In the case of the pregnancy posing a larger then normal threat to her health it is her life on the line. At present she has the choice of if the pregnancy or her health is the priority.

If it is a case of risk in pregnancy, it is always the child whose life will be willfully terminated, not the woman's - Hence it is the child's life that is on the line. She may choose to bear the risk. The child is given no choice.

 

[Eryk]

If you're pro-life you have to be pro-contraception as well. Or you're just not serious.

 

[Desk trauma]

If you're pro-life you have to be pro-contraception as well. Or you're just not serious.

The opposition to contraception and effective sexual education by pro-life groups in the US is one reason I can't take them seriously. Their screaming that abortion is murder while not acting as if they really believe that is another.

 

[Desk trauma]

If it is a case of risk in pregnancy, it is always the child whose life will be willfully terminated, not the woman's - Hence it is the child's life that is on the line. She may choose to bear the risk. The child is given no choice.

How does one give a choice to someone without the ability to make one?

 

[Dave-W]

How does one give a choice to someone without the ability to make one?

Exactly.

 

[Murby]

I have to laugh a bit at some of these abortion opponents because their views are so narrow. Their views seem to be based on religion and not reality.
When the population of the world hits 20 billion people and the earth can no longer sustain us, then what? Just keep having babies??
We're at 7 billion now and we can't sustain ourselves. We have people having five, six and even ten kids.. and some with even more!!
We need to enact population control to save the human race.. at least until we have the science to get off this planet and find other places to live.

Sure abortion is undesirable .. there's no argument there.. but sometimes what is undesirable is also necessary for survival. At some point, what is morally right or wrong is no longer an applicable argument.

Sometimes, when viewing such a fundamental argument, we have to examine the extremes in order to formulate solutions or conclusions.
I have to wonder about a strictly pro-life person's thoughts on having a baby if they knew the baby was going to live a life of excruciating pain and suffering. Would they abort? Most likely they'll duck the question because it challenges their perceptions..

Read the green line below.......

 

[Archivist]

Having said that, one of the reasons why I am against abortion is because there are some people who believe that a mother's life should be saved.

And just what is wrong with saving the life of the pregnant woman? She is a person in being. God has breathed into her the breath of life. She has the ability to make a choice. The fetus does not have that ability. The fetus has not yet received the breath of life. If we don't allow the person in being whose life is at risk to make the choice, it falls to a third party. Why should you or any other third party have the right to make the choice when it does not directly impact you?

I wonder where you stand on abortion. Are you pro-life or pro-choice?

Pro-choice of course.

 

[Desk trauma]

I have to laugh a bit at some of these abortion opponents because their views are so narrow. Their views seem to be based on religion and not reality.
When the population of the world hits 20 billion people and the earth can no longer sustain us, then what? Just keep having babies??

What projections of human population are you looking at? Every one I have looked at has a peak of 9-10 billion followed by stabilization there after.

We need to enact population control to save the human race.. at least until we have the science to get off this planet and find other places to live.

Thats an even greater violation of bodily autonomy then most pro-lifers would inflict. No thank you.

Additionally, we who? The US is only a fraction above replacement level reproduction and many first world nations are below that.

 

[Murby]

What projections of human population are you looking at? Every one I have looked at has a peak of 9-10 billion followed by stabilization there after.

Stabilization caused or controlled by what?
Unlike most scientific predictions using known variables, historical data, and mathematical modeling, I don't believe science can accurately predict population growth stability beyond a pure extrapolation of the current growth rate. And that growth rate is scary.

Thats an even greater violation of bodily autonomy then most pro-lifers would inflict. No thank you.

Additionally, we who? The US is only a fraction above replacement level reproduction and many first world nations are below that.

Valid points.. but the growth curves we see don't lie.

We can't even sustain what we have now.. and that's the here and now...

 

[Desk trauma]

Stabilization caused or controlled by what?

Social changes in countries becoming more developed, contraception use etc.

Unlike most scientific predictions using known variables, historical data, and mathematical modeling, I don't believe science can accurately predict population growth stability beyond a pure extrapolation of the current growth rate. And that growth rate is scary.

What has you so scared? More then enough food is already produced to feed humanity and oddly enough agricultural scientists have not stopped working on improving yields.

Malthus is going to continue to spin in his grave.

Valid points.. but the growth curves we see don't lie.

The numbers scare you so out with bodily autonomy and in with one child policy? As if it was not bad enough when it was imposed from above by those in power lets impose it from abroad?

 

[Murby]

Social changes in countries becoming more developed, contraception use etc.

A valid assumption that both of those factors will help.. but not stop growth.

What has you so scared? More then enough food is already produced to feed humanity and oddly enough agricultural scientists have not stopped working on improving yields.

Malthus is going to continue to spin in his grave.

Its being produced on credit.. We're borrowing from Peter to pay Paul and the environment, as the proverbial bank, is going to come collecting. Its already starting.

The numbers scare you so out with bodily autonomy and in with one child policy? As if it was not bad enough when it was imposed from above by those in power lets impose it from abroad?

Bad argument and unethical to take the words of someone and then apply tailored implied consequences to twist the meaning of those words.

The US is only a fraction above replacement level reproduction and many first world nations are below that.

The USA is currently at something like 0.7% growth.. So in just over 100 yeas, we will have almost doubled our population? You consider that stable or manageable in some way??

Your implication that we are only a "fraction above" seems short sighted to me.. But that's just my opinion.. When it comes to issues of survival, I tend to error on the side of caution a bit.. especially when there's no second chance when mistakes are made.

 

[farout]

I believe that abortion is wrong. I also believe therefore that there have got to be ways to allow one's baby to be adopted. Having said that, one of the reasons why I am against abortion is because there are some people who believe that a mother's life should be saved. How about doctors trying to save both the mother and the baby? How about abortion not being an option to end a baby's life due to the fact that they may end up having down's syndrome or a developmental defect? Personally I believe it is a cruel thing to do. I do believe that it is a more complex thing morally to many but I have strong views based on scripture and the fact that there are so many women who would love the have children. Many of these women have also lost their babies whether it is through miscarriage or some other reasons. I don't wish to pass ungodly judgment on women who have had abortions performed on them. I believe that they are being deceived by those in power and some who don't believe in Christian values. I wonder where you stand on abortion. Are you pro-life or pro-choice?

One thing is certain! Our mothers were pro life!

 

[Desk trauma]

A valid assumption that both of those factors will help.. but not stop growth.

Why does growth need to stop?

Bad argument and unethical to take the words of someone and then apply tailored implied consequences to twist the meaning of those words.

You said:

We need to enact population control to save the human race.. at least until we have the science to get off this planet and find other places to live.

If the controls that China put into place are not something you support what do you support? How would your controls avoid the abuses that the one child policy created? Why should I, or anyone, have their bodily autonomy violated over your fears?

The USA is currently at something like 0.7% growth.. So in just over 100 yeas, we will have almost doubled our population? You consider that stable or manageable in some way??

Yes, I do. Granted I am a rank speciesist and don't clutch my pearls at the thought of large numbers of humans.

 

[Desk trauma]

One thing is certain! Our mothers were pro life!

You do not know my mother nor do you know her stance on political issues.

 

[Eryk]

One thing is certain! Our mothers were pro life!

Not certain. Women with children have abortions, and women who have had abortions have children later on. Pretty common, actually.