Pro-Life Laws, Courts WORK to reduce abortion!

[JeffreyLloyd]

Study Finds Major Shift in Abortion Demographics

The face of women who have abortions has shifted significantly in the past 30 years, with relatively fewer white childless teenagers and more mothers of color in their 20s and 30s opting to terminate their pregnancies, according to a report being released today.

In the first comprehensive analysis since 1974 of demographic characteristics of women who have abortions, researchers found that the overall drop in the abortion rate has been marked by a dramatic shift, declining more among white women and teenagers than among black and Hispanic and older women.

"There's been a real change in the picture of women who get abortions," said Rachel Jones, a senior research associate at the Guttmacher Institute, a private nonprofit reproductive health research organization considered to be one of the most authoritative sources on abortion trends. "This is the first time anyone has looked at this in a comprehensive way."

***

"The states with the most active pro-life laws have seen the biggest abortion declines," he said.

Keep up the good work gang!

 

[geocajun]

According to the ThirdWay report the cause of reduced abortions is increased use of contraceptives - not laws, where 40% of the worlds abortions take place in countries where abortion is illegal.

Your article said nothing about laws reducing abortion either. Why are you stating it? Do you have some reason to believe that is the case?

 

[colleen]

From the article,
" "The states with the most active pro-life laws have seen the biggest abortion declines," he said."

 

[colleen]

And, if contraceptives include the pill than I hope they considered the amount of abortions the pill can cause when they considered how it causes abortions to decline.

I read the study you posted, Geo, and it was very interesting, but that doesn't mean other studies can't give us additional views on the same problem.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

And, if contraceptives include the pill that I hope they considered the amount of abortions the pill can cause when they considered how it causes abortions to decline.

I read the study you posted, Geo, and it was very interesting, but that doesn't mean other studies can't give us additional views on the same problem.

Right on, right on

 

[Davidnic]

I think it is a combination that is most effective. The states with the most pro-life laws have the greatest decline. I would also like to see a study of the economic factors of that state.

I really shake my head when people say that more contraception is necessary to prevent unwanted pregnancies and only a few lines earlier it points out that income is a big factor. So why not focus on better income levels and standard of living rather than contraception.

My own personal feeling is that pro-life laws combined with an active social and economic program that aims to allow people equal dignity and living standards economically is the best way to combat abortion. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

 

[geocajun]

From the article,
" "The states with the most active pro-life laws have seen the biggest abortion declines," he said."

Uhh the full quote says

"
Michael J. New, an assistant professor of political science at the University of Alabama who works with the Family Research Council, attributed the drop in teenage pregnancies to a combination of factors, including increased contraceptive use, more teenagers delaying sex and state laws requiring parental consent.
"The states with the most active pro-life laws have seen the biggest abortion declines," he said."


The laws he is referring to have to do with parental consent, and the study I posted about shows the rate of kids going to other states to get abortions and additionally shows the rate at which kids get abortions being possibly increased by parental notification laws since most often its the parents who force the abortion.

 

[geocajun]

I think it is a combination that is most effective. The states with the most pro-life laws have the greatest decline. I would also like to see a study of the economic factors of that state.

I really shake my head when people say that more contraception is necessary to prevent unwanted pregnancies and only a few lines earlier it points out that income is a big factor. So why not focus on better income levels and standard of living rather than contraception.

My own personal feeling is that pro-life laws combined with an active social and economic program that aims to allow people equal dignity and living standards economically is the best way to combat abortion. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

I say it - when 80% of the time teens get pregnant it ends in abortion, one can't help but conclude that contraceptives would have stopped many of those deaths.
It isn't because I'm pro-contraceptive, its just the logical conclusion to the data.

 

[Davidnic]

Out of curiosity what to people think about the effectiveness of the laws that require providers to explain exactly what happens in an abortion before doing one. Some stuff I have seen indicates that those laws are very effective.

 

[Davidnic]

I say it - when 80% of the time teens get pregnant it ends in abortion, one can't help but conclude that contraceptives would have stopped many of those deaths.
It isn't because I'm pro-contraceptive, its just the logical conclusion to the data.

Do you think that better social programs would lower that 80% just as effectively.

 

[geocajun]

Do you think that better social programs would lower that 80% just as effectively.

This is where I have to question the practicality of such a stance taken alone - social programs can take years to develop. At the rate of 4K/day dying from abortion in the USA alone, and a large part of those being teenagers who would not have had those abortions if they didn't had avoided the pregnancy with contraceptives, is it more righteous to do nothing today while we merely talk about the possibility of better social programs that might work in a few years, or just give them contraceptives while working on the programs? There is no research showing abstinence education works, unfortunately. Just looking at the data and wanting to stop abortion, it is a sound and persuasive argument that providing better access to contraception directly affects the rate of abortion.
It's hard to hear, but its sound and persuasive when considered with the evidence.

 

[Veritas]

I think it is a combination that is most effective. The states with the most pro-life laws have the greatest decline. I would also like to see a study of the economic factors of that state.

I really shake my head when people say that more contraception is necessary to prevent unwanted pregnancies and only a few lines earlier it points out that income is a big factor. So why not focus on better income levels and standard of living rather than contraception.

My own personal feeling is that pro-life laws combined with an active social and economic program that aims to allow people equal dignity and living standards economically is the best way to combat abortion. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

How do you provide for "equal dignity and living standards economically"? What "standard" should be used? For example, I don't have as much as Bill Gates. Is he the standard?

 

[Fantine]

My youngest child and only girl is an older teenager.

And I live in a very red, very Bible-belt state.

I've said this before. When I chaperoned my only girl on a spring trip, she was the only girl in her room of 4 who wasn't on the pill (she was a sophomore.)

As a junior, she had to go to the emergency room with an ovarian cyst. The pressure she received from family practice doctors and gynecologists to go on the pill was relentless. (She has taken it for brief periods twice when her problem flared up.)

All this in a town that doesn't have a Planned Parenthood for more than sixty miles....

If this is what happens in flyover country, imagine how it is on the coasts....

The medical community believes, I think, that if they can get every girl on the pill while she's still a virgin, they will be guaranteed to end teen pregnancy.

And, BTW, even if your daughter is a minor, and even if she wants you to remain with her with the gyn, the gyn will insist on talking with her alone so she can grill her about her sex life and load her up with pamphlets and samples....

 

[colleen]

Uhh the full quote says

"
Michael J. New, an assistant professor of political science at the University of Alabama who works with the Family Research Council, attributed the drop in teenage pregnancies to a combination of factors, including increased contraceptive use, more teenagers delaying sex and state laws requiring parental consent.
"The states with the most active pro-life laws have seen the biggest abortion declines," he said."


The laws he is referring to have to do with parental consent, and the study I posted about shows the rate of kids going to other states to get abortions and additionally shows the rate at which kids get abortions being possibly increased by parental notification laws since most often its the parents who force the abortion.

1. What I quoted was a separate paragraph. I was in no way misrepresenting what the article said. I didn't split up a sentence to make my argument stronger.

2. I wasn't saying that the article didn't list other reasons for the decline. I was merely showing that you were wrong to accuse Jeffery of saying that pro-life laws helped decline abortions when the article didn't say that. Because, as I quoted the article did say it even if you don't agree with it.

 

[Davidnic]

How do you provide for "equal dignity and living standards economically"? What "standard" should be used? For example, I don't have as much as Bill Gates. Is he the standard?

Well, above the poverty line is a good start. That would be my first benchmark. That and a just wage.

The standard the Church endorses:

250. In order to protect this relationship between family and work, an element that must be appreciated and safeguarded is that of a family wage, a wage sufficient to maintain a family and allow it to live decently[564].

Such a wage must also allow for savings that will permit the acquisition of property as a guarantee of freedom. The right to property is closely connected with the existence of families, which protect themselves from need thanks also to savings and to the building up of family property[565].

There can be several different ways to make a family wage a concrete reality. Various forms of important social provisions help to bring it about, for example, family subsidies and other contributions for dependent family members, and also remuneration for the domestic work done in the home by one of the parents[566].

[564] Cf. Pius XI, Encyclical Letter Quadragesimo Anno: AAS 23 (1931), 200; Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes, 67: AAS 58 (1966), 1088-1089; John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Laborem Exercens, 19: AAS 73 (1981), 625-629.
[565] Cf. Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter Rerum Novarum: Acta Leonis XIII, 11 (1892), 105; Pius XI, Encyclical Letter Quadragesimo Anno: AAS 23 (1931), 193-194.
[566] Cf. John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Laborem Exercens, 19: AAS 73 (1981), 625- 629; Holy See, Charter of the Rights of the Family, art. 10 a, Vatican Polyglot Press, Vatican City 1983, p. 14.


Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church


Also:


The simple agreement between employee and employer with regard to the amount of pay to be received is not sufficient for the agreed-upon salary to qualify as a “just wage”, because a just wage “must not be below the level of subsistence”[662] of the worker: natural justice precedes and is above the freedom of the contract.

[662] Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter Rerum Novarum: Acta Leonis XIII, 11 (1892), 131.

Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church

 

[geocajun]

Do you think that better social programs would lower that 80% just as effectively.

I should add that in addition to my comments above, a bit part of my voting decision this year will be due to the fact that I do believe social programs will reduce abortions, and I think that is the best tactic toward ending or solving the abortion problem.

The question you asked was if I think it is as efficient, which I don't. On the one had a contraceptive prevents the pregnancy and thus the woman never evaluates the abortion question - on the other hand, women evaluating the abortion question are less likely to choose abortion if they have a social support program in place.
I think its 'both/and' here, not one or the other.

 

[Davidnic]

I should add that in addition to my comments above, a bit part of my voting decision this year will be due to the fact that I do believe social programs will reduce abortions, and I think that is the best tactic toward ending or solving the abortion problem.

The question you asked was if I think it is as efficient, which I don't. On the one had a contraceptive prevents the pregnancy and thus the woman never evaluates the abortion question - on the other hand, women evaluating the abortion question are less likely to choose abortion if they have a social support program in place.
I think its 'both/and' here, not one or the other.

Well that is why I asked it the way I did. I know you believe in their ability to reduce abortions, and I agree with that. I was curious as to your thoughts on their effectiveness in the context of how it was being discussed juxtaposed with the contraception issue.

 

[SolomonVII]

The only social support network that works to foster an environment that is child-friendly is family. The nanny state of affairs that big government offers an illusion only when it comes to any real support for the child of the future.

No western country has been able to recreate the strong social support network that the traditional family alone can provide. It is an illusion to think that what every other western government has failed to do will now be recreated through the pro-choice policies of the Democratic party.

On the other hand, cradle-to-grave government welfare does make the declining years of those of us in the western world rather comfortable. I don't blame the Americans for envying what Western Europe and Canada has been able to afford through allowing America to foot the cost of our defense.

Just don't expect such socialism to produce the next our culture's next generation.
Then again, this is not a problem for any who have no particular affection for their western culture in the first place.

 

[Filia Mariae]

This is where I have to question the practicality of such a stance taken alone - social programs can take years to develop. At the rate of 4K/day dying from abortion in the USA alone, and a large part of those being teenagers who would not have had those abortions if they didn't had avoided the pregnancy with contraceptives, is it more righteous to do nothing today while we merely talk about the possibility of better social programs that might work in a few years, or just give them contraceptives while working on the programs?

From a secular, utilitarian perspective, yeah sure. But as you well know, it's not morally licit to directly commit a moral evil, even to bring about a good.

 

[geocajun]

From a secular, utilitarian perspective, yeah sure. But as you well know, it's not morally licit to directly commit a moral evil, even to bring about a good.

I question the validity of an argument around ending abortion that tells me on principle that we must accept the inevitable abortion for an non-catholic than suggest they wear a condom and avoid the question of abortion altogether.
Naturally the follow on challenge to this is - why is a non-catholic listening to us about teachings on contraceptive use anyway? and I think that is a fair question, but our influence in the world is huge - how many children could have been saved had there been more cultural acceptance of contraceptive devices?
Is it so wrong to tolerate contraceptives if it is going to save a life? I believe the evidence shows contraceptives do in fact, save babies lives.
So what is our priority? I realize the principle here, but I have to question its application given the gravity of the situation.