Pro-Fetal Life

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Yay, more fallacies! The moral worth and value of a human being is not based upon the how in which they came into existence.

Imagine that we line up 3 adults. 1 of the adults came into existence VIA 2 loving and married parents. The 2nd adult came into existence by a single mother who had a one night stand and didn't use proper protection. The 3rd adult came into existence because his mother was raped.

If the question was then posed - Do any of these adults possess more inherent moral worth and value because of how they came into existence? The answer would obviously (or at least it should obviously), be no.

The morality of abortion doesn't rest with the how in which a human being came into existence. Either humans are morally valuable and posses inherent moral worth from fertilization, which is when they begin their existence - or not.

I've never yet to see an objective argument laid out which was logically valid that suggested that human beings somehow grow into moral worth and value. We either have it or we don't.

Last I checked the US Constitution forbids involuntary servitude. You don't think that forcing a woman to carry the seed of her attacker to term against her will is involuntary servitude?
 
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And folks, let’s get this thread back on topic. The question is the use of pro-life by people who are actually pro-fetal life. Why shouldn’t pro-life go back to the original meaning? Why don’t those opposed to abortion latch on to a more accurate title?
 
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SPF

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And folks, let’s get this thread back on topic. The question is the use of pro-life by people who are actually pro-fetal life. Why shouldn’t pro-life go back to the original meaning? Why don’t those opposed to abortion latch on to a more accurate title?
The “original” meaning, which was only for the first few years, referred to being both against abortion and against capital punishment.

Your redefinition isn’t the original. You’re not going back to anything.

I don’t see why a redefining is necessary. For the past 50+ years pro-life has simply meant “against abortion”.

I don’t think your distinction is necessary.
 
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The “original” meaning, which was only for the first few years, referred to being both against abortion and against capital punishment.

Your redefinition isn’t the original. You’re not going back to anything.

I don’t see why a redefining is necessary. For the past 50+ years pro-life has simply meant “against abortion”.

I don’t think your distinction is necessary.

Does the term pro-life mean what it says? No. Pro-fetal life is much more accurate. Why do you have such a problem with that? Please show me in Scripture where it says that it is acceptable for Christians to not be truthful.
 
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My pastor and I both agree that "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are often just falsely polarizing rhetoric that speak more about your political tribal identification.
You and your pastor are correct. BTW I hadn’t mentioned pro-choice—which i think is just as inaccurate—because I assumed that most of the posters here were in the so-called pro-life camp.
 
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Does the term pro-life mean what it says? No. Pro-fetal life is much more accurate. Why do you have such a problem with that? Please show me in Scripture where it says that it is acceptable for Christians to not be truthful.

Pro-Life is defined as: Against Abortion.

I think you’re defining Pro-Fetal Life as: Against abortion at all costs.

Different terms, and I don’t know of anyone who would take on the label of Pro-Fetal Life as you’ve defined it.

If you have a better definition please let us know what it would be. But from what I’ve seen, I know I wouldn’t call myself Pro-Fetal Life.
 
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redleghunter

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This was addressed earlier in the thread. While the Roman Catholic Church does permit medically-neutral procedures to save the life of a pregnant woman, it does not permit an abortion to save the life of a pregnant woman. https://dphx.org/respect-life/know-the-issues/abortion/
The example they give of a medically neutral procedure is the removal of a cancerous uterus.

What did you have in mind as something not neutral?
 
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redleghunter

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You and your pastor are correct. BTW I hadn’t mentioned pro-choice—which i think is just as inaccurate—because I assumed that most of the posters here were in the so-called pro-life camp.
Yet you started a thread with rhetoric by naming it Pro Fetal Life.
 
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Yet you started a thread with rhetoric by naming it Pro Fetal Life.
Try reading what is written. If I had been posting in a thread where a majority of people called themselves pro-choice I probably would have titled the thread Pro-Abortion Rights.
 
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The example they give of a medically neutral procedure is the removal of a cancerous uterus.

What did you have in mind as something not neutral?

An abortion is not considered to be neutral.
 
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Pro-Life is defined as: Against Abortion.

I think you’re defining Pro-Fetal Life as: Against abortion at all costs.

Different terms, and I don’t know of anyone who would take on the label of Pro-Fetal Life as you’ve defined it.

If you have a better definition please let us know what it would be. But from what I’ve seen, I know I wouldn’t call myself Pro-Fetal Life.

So you want to misrepresent yourself. Your call, not mine.
 
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I don't see how I'm misrepresenting myself. For the past 50 years, the term "Pro-Life" has carried with it the definition: "Against Abortion"

If you ask me the question of whether or not I am Pro-Life, then by looking at the definition of Pro-Life, I would say that yes, I am OK with that label.

Now, it sounds like you want to create a new term, which is "Pro-Fetal Life". That's fine, nothing wrong with that. However, given the definition you've proposed for Pro-Fetal Life, I would not be able to call myself Pro-Fetal Life.

So, if you want to create a third term with a different definition, then perhaps I can adopt that label. But if it's between the current definition of Pro-Life, and your new term Pro-Fetal Life, then I would still have to personally use the term Pro-Life.

Although, I suppose you could be proposing both a redefining of Pro-Life, and the introduction of a new term, Pro-Fetal Life. But that might be difficult for you in day to day conversation as you're going to have to spend a lot of time explaining to people your new terms and your new definitions before you can have any sort of meaningful conversation.

But given that I agree with the current definition of Pro-Life, which has been in use for the past 50 years, I don't see how I'm misrepresenting myself.
 
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ubicaritas

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Last I checked the US Constitution forbids involuntary servitude. You don't think that forcing a woman to carry the seed of her attacker to term against her will is involuntary servitude?

Some people just want to sentimentalize pregnancy regardless of the realty that it is not always a joyous experience, nor is everybody capable of living up to their ideals of selflessness they think other people ought to have.
 
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It would seem that the terms "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice" are both more than likely being phased out anyway. Here are some news organizations choice of terminology:

Washington Post
Abortion rights advocate
Anti-abortion

New York Times
Abortion rights advocate
Anti-abortion (corrected 3/19/2010 3:34 p.m.)

Philadelphia Inquirer
Abortion rights advocates
Anti-abortion

CNN
Abortion rights supporters
Anti-abortion activists
Pro-abortion rights
Anti-abortion rights

NBC
Pro-abortion rights
Anti-abortion
Anti-abortion advocates

CBS
Pro-abortion rights
Anti-abortion rights
 
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ubicaritas

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This was addressed earlier in the thread. While the Roman Catholic Church does permit medically-neutral procedures to save the life of a pregnant woman, it does not permit an abortion to save the life of a pregnant woman. https://dphx.org/respect-life/know-the-issues/abortion/

Indeed. The Catholic Church's magisterium is adamant that abortion is an absolute evil, without exception. They've even excommunicated a doctor for performing an abortion in Brazil on a 9 year old child. They excommunicated a nun for cooperating to have an abortion done to save a mother's life a few years ago in the US. Which to most outsiders, and even many Catholics, is just cruel and inhuman.
 
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redleghunter

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It would seem that the terms "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice" are both more than likely being phased out anyway. Here are some news organizations choice of terminology:

Washington Post
Abortion rights advocate
Anti-abortion

New York Times
Abortion rights advocate
Anti-abortion (corrected 3/19/2010 3:34 p.m.)

Philadelphia Inquirer
Abortion rights advocates
Anti-abortion

CNN
Abortion rights supporters
Anti-abortion activists
Pro-abortion rights
Anti-abortion rights

NBC
Pro-abortion rights
Anti-abortion
Anti-abortion advocates

CBS
Pro-abortion rights
Anti-abortion rights
Ah, the one sided rhetoric of the leftist media.
 
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redleghunter

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An abortion is not considered to be neutral.
I believe you know what the RCC means by "neutral." It means that the medical procedure used on the woman should not be directed at killing the unborn human being.
 
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I don't see how I'm misrepresenting myself. For the past 50 years, the term "Pro-Life" has carried with it the definition: "Against Abortion"

If you ask me the question of whether or not I am Pro-Life, then by looking at the definition of Pro-Life, I would say that yes, I am OK with that label.

Now, it sounds like you want to create a new term, which is "Pro-Fetal Life". That's fine, nothing wrong with that. However, given the definition you've proposed for Pro-Fetal Life, I would not be able to call myself Pro-Fetal Life.

So, if you want to create a third term with a different definition, then perhaps I can adopt that label. But if it's between the current definition of Pro-Life, and your new term Pro-Fetal Life, then I would still have to personally use the term Pro-Life.

Although, I suppose you could be proposing both a redefining of Pro-Life, and the introduction of a new term, Pro-Fetal Life. But that might be difficult for you in day to day conversation as you're going to have to spend a lot of time explaining to people your new terms and your new definitions before you can have any sort of meaningful conversation.

But given that I agree with the current definition of Pro-Life, which has been in use for the past 50 years, I don't see how I'm misrepresenting myself.

Very sad that you want to use a term that is inaccurate solely because it has been used a certain way for 50 years.
 
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