Pro-Choice Versus Pro-Life

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trientje

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And how do Stalin's necrometrics, 20 to 50 million killed, excluding WWII death toll, fit into this idea of allying with Stalin to fight Hitler "in defense of life", I wonder... :confused:

You have walked over the cliff. Are you expanding the conversation just to introduce a new argument?
 
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Kalevalatar

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Oh yes, I'm introducing a new "pro-life" argument, namely, not to do devil's deals with bloodthirsty dictators if one is "pro-life" for real, as life most certainly does not end at birth.

Nah, just wondering aloud, hence the absence of "?" mark.
 
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Belk

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Comparing war to abortion? I hate war and I hate abortion. I almost find abortion more heinous. Especially when people on this site are taking the liberty of judging when a person is a person, or when is a fetus worthy of living. As much as I hate war, sometimes war has to be waged for defense of life. Good example: Hitler WW11 and because we fought Hitler in defense of life, in that sense it was justified. But life is always lost in the process and one child is not specifically targeted. But with abortion, every abortion deliberately targets and destroys a child, otherwise, it isn't an abortion.


So, if I may paraphrase your position to ensure I understand it correctly?

You dislike the idea of wars killing people. However you feel that sometimes the alternative is worse, that we must sometimes kill in order to protect our freedom and ideals. You do not feel that the same justification applies to abortion. That there is no freedom or ideal that makes having an abortion a viable choice.

Is that in line with your position?
 
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mathetes123

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Belk said:
So, if I may paraphrase your position to ensure I understand it correctly?

You dislike the idea of wars killing people. However you feel that sometimes the alternative is worse, that we must sometimes kill in order to protect our freedom and ideals. You do not feel that the same justification applies to abortion. That there is no freedom or ideal that makes having an abortion a viable choice.

Is that in line with your position?

The whole war argument is flawed in two ways. One, it is a straw man argument because war is in no way analogous to abortion and two you assume war is never justified which is not true. Surely you would not make the argument that we should not have gone to war with hitler?
 
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trientje

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So, if I may paraphrase your position to ensure I understand it correctly?

You dislike the idea of wars killing people. However you feel that sometimes the alternative is worse, that we must sometimes kill in order to protect our freedom and ideals. You do not feel that the same justification applies to abortion. That there is no freedom or ideal that makes having an abortion a viable choice.

Is that in line with your position?

You obviously feel differently about abortion. I like what this guy wrote.

There is a big difference between someone choosing to give up their own life for their faith and someone choosing to take the life of another for their own convenience.
 
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JustMeSee

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Have you seen this movie? If not, won't you please view it and let me know what you think of it. Thank You


"180" - An award-winning documentary!
Ray "the banana man" Comfort?

I will try to watch it, though.
What does this have to do with Pro-Life/Pro-Choice?
Trying to compare abortion to The Holocaust? Not even close to the same thing.
 
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JohnLocke

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What is more important? Choice or life? Please choose your choice (response) if you are alive. If you are not alive, you cannot even choose to answer my question. You cannot have a choice if you are not alive.

People who are for abortion are pro-choice. People against it are pro-life. You cannot have choice without life. If your mother aborted you, you would not be allowed to be pro-choice because you would not be alive.

I would say that existence without choice is not life.
 
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Mr. Pedantic

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Have you seen this movie? If not, won't you please view it and let me know what you think of it. Thank You


"180" - An award-winning documentary!

I can't speak for the people in the video, but to me those arguments are not convincing.

The experience of a fetus (not a "baby" or a "child", a fetus) is qualitatively different from that of an adult, a child, or even that of a neonate. Depending on the stage of development, they cannot breathe on their own. They cannot see, cannot hear, cannot even think. Qualitatively in terms of function and existence, it isn't really any more a human being than a teratoma.

In addition, the question "when does it become a human being" is misguided, because it implies the answer is a dichotomy - one day it isn't, the next day it is. Just like how the definitions of adulthood, or adolescence, or maturity are continuously defined and depend on context and the measures employed, so too is the definition of humanity.

Furthermore, the developing organism is completely dependent on the mother to survive. This is really a unique situation in a 'normal' human lifetime, where even the function of carrying oxygen to the body's tissues is dependent on another apparatus. However, a fetus shares several parallels with people in persistent vegetative states. The major difference is that the natural history of the fetus tends toward greater function, whereas the natural history of a person in a persistent vegetative state is generally neutral. Even so, the fact that a decision can be made to end the life of an adult in this state means that such a decision can also be made for a fetus. Assuming the concern is on the individual's experience rather than their future potential, I do not see any qualitative difference between the experience of "coma guy" (so to speak) and the fetus. The assumption is that the individual in a vegetative state will not consciously perceive the act of killing them, and I see no reason why this assumption should not be extended to the fetus. Both have reflexes to stimuli, but in neither case is that taken for a sign of consciousness or self-awareness.
 
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