Privatize Marriage???

Conor B

Newbie
Jun 8, 2008
94
7
Tucson Arizona
✟7,753.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
As far as I'm concerned "marriage" is a covenant made between a man, a woman, and God, typically with a spiritual overseer officiating. As far as I'm concerned the state has no part in marriage nor should they.

Considering the travesty that civil marriages have become and the abomination that some states have imposed on the citizenry under the guise of "marriage" my feeling is that Christians should opt out of the civil process altogether and return to covenant marriages alone.
 
Upvote 0

Soulgazer

Christian Gnostic
Feb 24, 2011
3,748
90
Visit site
✟19,403.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
As far as I'm concerned "marriage" is a covenant made between a man, a woman, and God, typically with a spiritual overseer officiating. As far as I'm concerned the state has no part in marriage nor should they.

Considering the travesty that civil marriages have become and the abomination that some states have imposed on the citizenry under the guise of "marriage" my feeling is that Christians should opt out of the civil process altogether and return to covenant marriages alone.
I will second the feeling. I think "civil union" should replace the term "marriage" on all legal documents, which in the eyes of the state, "Marriage" is but a civil contract anyway, as by law,(in the USA) church and state should stay separate. Then a church could either endorse a marriage or not depending on it's particular custom. If one wishes to belong to a particular church, one should be willing to follow the rules of that church, or select one of the other 30,000 denominations.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
In Judaism a couple needs both a Jewish and a civil marriage. They also need a Jewish and civil divorce.

What this pastor is arguing is... Christians should strictly engage in "Christian Marriage" and leave the Government out of the picture as much as possible. They simply sign the family Bible as being married. And evidently, this is supposed to be able to stand in court should there be a dispute.
Hello Aquila. What is your view of this covenantle parable/story in Luke 16?

Luke 16 "Rich Man/Poor Man" parable.....The most misunderstood/misinterpreted Parable in the NT?

Luke 16 YLT
14 And also the Pharisees, being lovers of money, were hearing all these things, and were deriding him, 15 and he said to them, ‘Ye are those declaring yourselves righteous before men, but God doth know your hearts; because that which among men is high, [is] abomination before God; 16 the law and the prophets [are] till John; since then the reign of God is proclaimed good news, and every one doth press into it; 17 and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall.
18 ‘Every one who is sending away his wife, and marrying another, doth commit adultery; and every one who is marrying her sent away from a husband doth commit adultery.


19 Yet a certain Man was rich and was clothed purple and fine-linen, making-merry down to a-day shiningly
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I continue to read about how the "institution of marriage" is in decline. I began wondering why. It would seem that many believe the problem isn't with morality per se, but rather GOVERNMENT meddling in private matters of the heart and soul of free individuals.

Here's the question: Is it really possible to be married in God's sight without the State licensing the union? Should marriage be a private affair between individuals and their God?

Personally, I find this view interesting because my grandmother was divorced. She never remarried. However, she and my "step grandpa" (my real grandpa for all intents and purposes) were together, loving and faithful, for over 35 years though not legally married. He has since passed away and she's still with us today. But I've often wondered; Were they married in God's sight? I know that's something a lot of people might disagree on. But it's been something I've wondered.

Also, many of us have endured the legal insanity, heartache, and near mental and emotional torture of divorce. And in many cases, as stated in an article above, men have been slaughtered in the arena of the divorce courts. Women have also faced these things in some cases. So many people can relate with the feeling of not wanting to ever experience that horror again at the hands of the state. Many have watched helplessly has family and friends have endured these things and have therefore opted out of getting "legally married".

It would appear that increasing numbers of Americans are choosing to cohabitate instead of "getting married". Not to mention it's increasingly becoming very difficult to survive on one income. Are we really seeing a decline in morality as fewer and fewer are entering the "institution of marriage"... or are we seeing an unspoken, and perhaps even misunderstood, revolt from an overbearing governmental monstrocity that has become known as the "institution of marriage"?

Here's an article on the privatization of marriage. Please share your thoughts...
Five Reasons Why Christians Should Not
Obtain a State Marriage License

by Pastor Matt Trewhella

Every year thousands of Christians amble down to their local county courthouse and obtain a marriage license from the State in order to marry their future spouse. They do this unquestioningly. They do it because their pastor has told them to go get one, and besides, “everybody else gets one.” This pamphlet attempts to answer the question—why shouldn’t we go get one?

1. The definition of a “license” demands that we not obtain one to marry. Black’s Law Dictionary defines “license” as, “The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal.” Why should it be illegal to marry without the State’s permission? Why should we need the State’s permission to participate in something which God instituted (Gen. 2:18-24)? We should not need the State’s permission to marry nor should we grovel before state officials to seek it. What if you apply and the State says “no.” You must understand that the authority to license implies the power to prohibit. A license by definition “confers a right” to do something. The State cannot grant the right to marry. It is a God-given right.

2. When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. It is a corporation of the State! Therefore, they have jurisdiction over your marriage including the fruit of your marriage. What is the fruit of your marriage? Your children and every piece of property you own. There is plenty of case law in American jurisprudence which declares this to be true.

In 1993, parents were upset here in Wisconsin because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family’s privacy. When parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law and that they would have to take the test because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, “your marriage license and their birth certificates.” Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications.

3. When you marry with a marriage license, you place yourself under a body of law which is immoral. By obtaining a marriage license, you place yourself under the jurisdiction of Family Court which is governed by unbiblical, immoral laws. Under these laws, you can divorce for any reason. Often, the courts side with the spouse who is in rebellion to God, and castigates the spouse who remains faithful by ordering him or her not to speak about the Bible or other matters of faith when present with the children.

As a minister, I cannot in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws. I also cannot marry someone with a marriage license because to do so I have to act as an agent of the State—literally! I would have to sign the marriage license, and I would have to mail it into the State. Given the State’s demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given its unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, it would be an act of idolatry for me to do so.

4. The marriage license invades and removes God-given parental authority. When you read the Bible, you see that God intended for children to have their father’s blessing regarding whom they married. Daughters were to be given in marriage by their fathers (Dt. 22:16; Ex. 22:17; I Cor. 7:38). We have a vestige of this in our culture today in that the father takes his daughter to the front of the altar and the minister asks, “Who gives this woman to be married to this man?”

Historically, there was no requirement to obtain a marriage license in colonial America. When you read the laws of the colonies and then the states, you see only two requirements for marriage. First, you had to obtain your parents’ permission to marry, and second, you had to post public notice of the marriage 5-15 days before the ceremony.

Notice you had to obtain your parents’ permission. Back then you saw godly government displayed in that the State recognized the parent’s authority by demanding that the parents’ permission be obtained. Today, the all-encompassing ungodly State demands that their permission be obtained to marry.

By issuing marriage licenses, the State is saying, “You don’t need your parents’ permission, you need our permission.” If parents are opposed to their child’s marrying of a certain person and refuse to give their permission, the child can do an end run around the parent’s authority by obtaining the State’s permission, and marry anyway. This is an invasion and removal of God-given parental authority by the State.

5. When you marry with a marriage license, you are literally a polygamist. From the State’s point of view, when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, but you are also marrying the State. Though many doubt you when you say this, nevertheless, it is true.

The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled “With This Ring I Thee Wed.” It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. The opening paragraph under the subtitle “Marriage Vows” states, “Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio.”

See, the State knows, the lawyers know, that when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, you are marrying the State! You are a polygamist! You are not just making a vow to God and your spouse, but you are making a vow to the State, and you are giving undue jurisdiction to the State.

When Does the State Have Jurisdiction Over a Marriage?

God intended the State to have jurisdiction over a marriage for two reasons—1). in the case of divorce, and 2). when crimes are committed i.e., adultery, bigamy. etc. Unfortunately, the State now allows divorce for any reason, and it doesn’t prosecute for adultery.

In either case, divorce or crime, a marriage license is not necessary for the courts to determine whether a marriage existed or not. What is needed are witnesses, and that is why witnesses should be recorded both on the marriage certificate itself and by keeping the wedding day guest book.

Marriage was instituted by God, therefore it is a God-given right. According to Scripture, it is to be governed by the family, and the State only has jurisdiction in the cases of divorce or crime.

History of Marriage Licenses in America

George Washington was married without a marriage license. Abraham Lincoln was married without a marriage license. So, how did we come to this place in America where marriage licenses are issued?

Historically, all the states in America had laws outlawing the marriage of blacks and whites. In the mid-1800’s, certain states began allowing interracial marriages or miscegenation as long as those marrying received a license from the state. In other words they had to receive permission to do an act which without such permission would be illegal.

Blacks Law Dictionary points to this historical fact when it defines “marriage license” as, “A license or permission granted by public authority to persons who intend to intermarry.” “Intermarry” is defined in Black’s Law Dictionary as, “Miscegenation; mixed or interracial marriages.”

Give the State an inch and they’ll take a 100 miles (or as one elderly woman once said to me “10,000 miles.”) Not long after these licenses were issued, some states began requiring all people who marry to obtain a marriage license. In 1923, the Federal Government established the Uniform Marriage and Marriage License Act (they later established the Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act). By 1929, every state in the Union had adopted marriage license laws.

What Should We Do?

Christian couples should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses. Some have said to me, “If someone is married without a marriage license, then they aren’t really married.” Given the fact that states may soon legalize same-sex marriages, we need to ask ourselves, “If a man and a man marry with a State marriage license, and a man and woman marry without a State marriage license—who’s really married? Is it the two men with a marriage license, or the man and woman without a marriage license?” In reality, this contention that one is not really married unless they obtain a marriage license just reveals how Statist we have become in our thinking. We need to think biblically.

You should not have to obtain a license from the State to marry someone any more than you should have to obtain a license from the State to be a parent, which some in academic and legislative circles are currently pushing to be made law.

When I marry a couple, I always buy them a Family Bible which contains birth and death records, and a marriage certificate. We record the marriage in the Family Bible. What’s recorded in a Family Bible will stand up as a legally binding document in any court of law in America. Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriage in their Family Bibles. So should we.

Pastor Trewhella
Mercy Seat Christian Church
10240 W. National Ave. PMB #129
Milwaukee, Wisconsin.


The law has always recognised "informal" marriages after some amount of time involved.
 
Upvote 0

~Zao~

Wisdom’s child
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2007
3,060
957
✟100,595.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If, according to popular belief, that the downside of human nature is stepping on others to gain advantage, which the unjust steward points out, then Dives is guilty of nothing. But if indifference is a crime, which this parable seems to point to, then the guilt is justified.
In a sense the ‘friend' Dives needs to gain admission into ‘the bosom of Abraham’ is letting go of flesh(lower nature) so that flesh in resurrection is obtainable.
But Christ points out that Moses and the Prophets were until John so it places the parable as Jewish. The friends there that carry to Abrahams bosom are the angels.
 
Upvote 0

~Zao~

Wisdom’s child
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2007
3,060
957
✟100,595.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hello Aquila. What is your view of this covenantle parable/story in Luke 16?

Luke 16 "Rich Man/Poor Man" parable.....The most misunderstood/misinterpreted Parable in the NT?

Luke 16 YLT
14 And also the Pharisees, being lovers of money, were hearing all these things, and were deriding him, 15 and he said to them, ‘Ye are those declaring yourselves righteous before men, but God doth know your hearts; because that which among men is high, [is] abomination before God; 16 the law and the prophets [are] till John; since then the reign of God is proclaimed good news, and every one doth press into it; 17 and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall.
18 ‘Every one who is sending away his wife, and marrying another, doth commit adultery; and every one who is marrying her sent away from a husband doth commit adultery.

19 Yet a certain Man was rich and was clothed purple and fine-linen, making-merry down to a-day shiningly
Oops, wrong thread loll
 
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
20,684
17,819
USA
✟945,733.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Greetings,

I don’t view cohabitation or non ceremonial unions as ideal for myself. I’m not interested in a lavish event. But I would like to share that special day with friends and loved ones. While I understand the legal ramifications of marriage and the challenges many face, merging our resources is part of the agreement.

I’m not fond of the idea of circumventing a legal union. It leads to questions of trust and oneness I don’t want to bring into the relationship. Marriage is a risk and I’m okay with that. There’s nothing I’d lose that God can’t restore.

~Bella
 
Upvote 0

AGJakeH

Member
Oct 21, 2019
24
27
32
Whiteville, NC
✟17,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
In my eyes, a marriage is between one man one woman and their God(s) or lack thereof. The government has no place in marriage, never has and never will. However they do have a place in upholding contracts and there’s nothing that should stop two (or more) informed, consenting adults from saying that what was once individually theirs is now collectively theirs.

I fully understand that my POV is much more nuanced than most in my area of the country and my denomination.
 
Upvote 0