Pretrib Discussion

[sovereigngrace]

So you think that there will not be anything as bad as AD70? (Matt. 24: 21)

Yes, in regard to the sudden and swift wholesale destruction to a culture/religion. Read Josephus. Biblical old covenant Judaism is gone forever.

 

[5thKingdom]

Yes, in regard to the sudden and swift wholesale destruction to a culture/religion. Read Josephus. Biblical old covenant Judaism is gone forever.

What is the CONTEXT of Matthew 24 and 25?
Is it Judaism or the Christian Church? Instead of reading Josephus,
read the Bible and try to discern the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation
and that involves the rise FALSE Christs and the return of Jesus Christ.


Or, don't care about Biblical CONTEXT. Just read Josephus and pretend
Christ returned in 70AD. Just pretend the destruction of Judaism is the
WORSE tribulation the world will ever see. Or, you can read the Bible
and see the destruction of Judaism happened LONG BEFORE 70AD.


Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God
shall be TAKEN from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth
the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard
his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


As you can see (above) Judaism was destroyed LONG BEFORE
70AD... why is this "news" to you. Because you trust Josephus
instead of trusting Matthew 21:43 and Matthew 24 and 25 when
"the days are shortened" or else "no flesh be saved". Yea,
that happened in 70AD... it was a worldwide event according to
Josephus.


Mat 24:20-21
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Mat 24:23-25
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.


Mat 24:27-28
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


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[Marilyn C]

Yes, in regard to the sudden and swift wholesale destruction to a culture/religion. Read Josephus. Biblical old covenant Judaism is gone forever.

Yes it was horrendous for the people of Israel, as Jesus knew it would be. However in Matthew 24: 22 we see that the Lord was talking on a world wide scale -

`And if those days had not been shortened, NO FLESH would be saved;....` (Matt. 24: 22)

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yes it was horrendous for the people of Israel, as Jesus knew it would be. However in Matthew 24: 22 we see that the Lord was talking on a world wide scale -

`And if those days had not been shortened, NO FLESH would be saved;....` (Matt. 24: 22)

Not so. The context was Judea. It was destructive what occurred.

 

[Marilyn C]

Not so. The context was Judea. It was destructive what occurred.

So SG when do you see the events of Rev. 8 & 9 happening?

 

[5thKingdom]

Not so. The context was Judea. It was destructive what occurred.

You are just hilarious. You want to pretend the CONTEXT of
the end of the church age was NOT part of Matthew 24 and 25...
but that was talking about the Jewish Kingdom in 70 AD. Tell me,
did Jesus Return in 70AD because that is PART of the CONTEXT
of Matthew 24 and 25... and the Revelation Beast.


But, of course you will not answer because it will only expose
your inability to understand Great Tribulation prophecies and
the Lord's Return AFTER the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
and during the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mt 25:1]
aka the Revelation Beast and Daniel's Fourth Beast.


.

 

[sovereigngrace]

So SG when do you see the events of Rev. 8 & 9 happening?

Revelation is a number of symbolic parallels of the intra-advent period. Revelation 8:1 shows the aftermath of the one and only second coming. The rest of Revelation 8 to Revelation 10 describes the 7 trumpets parallel.

 

[5thKingdom]

Revelation is a number of symbolic parallels of the intra-advent period. Revelation 8:1 shows the aftermath of the one and only second coming. The rest of Revelation 8 to Revelation 10 describes the 7 trumpets parallel.

The Revelation beast is the SAME people as the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1-13] and the SAME people as
Daniel's Fourth Beast.


And we know this because (a) the Revelation Beast ends with
Christ's Return and (b) Daniel's Fourth Beast ends with Christ's
Return and (c) the Great Tribulation ends with Christ's Return.


.

 

[Marilyn C]

Revelation is a number of symbolic parallels of the intra-advent period. Revelation 8:1 shows the aftermath of the one and only second coming. The rest of Revelation 8 to Revelation 10 describes the 7 trumpets parallel.

I agree.

 

[5thKingdom]

Revelation is a number of symbolic parallels of the intra-advent period. Revelation 8:1 shows the aftermath of the one and only second coming. The rest of Revelation 8 to Revelation 10 describes the 7 trumpets parallel.

Not true... Not even CLOSE to being True.


Revelation 8 shows the period BEFORE the start of the
First Revelation Beast and BEFORE Satan is "loosened" in Rev 9:1.


The Great Tribulation Period BEGINS with Rev 9:1
Since the Great Tribulation consists of the 1st and 2nd Woes.
(the Fifth and Sixth Trumpets) The Lord's Return is shown at the
beginning of the (eternal) 3rd Woe, as the Seventh Trumpet sounds.
Which correlates with 1 Co 15


BEFORE the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast Starts:


Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


As the Great Tribulation/ (1st) Revelation Beast Starts


Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.


As the (2nd) Revelation Beast Starts


Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold,
there come two woes more hereafter.


Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,


AFTER the Great Tribulation is finished and
AFTER the Second Revelation Beast is destroyed
The Lord's Return is during the SEVENTH TRUMPET


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold,
the third woe cometh quickly.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


The chronology of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast
is very simple and the Lord does not Return until AFTER
the Great Tribulation is finished and the SECOND Beast is
Destroyed (at the end of the Sixth Trumpet/2nd Woe)


You DO know Revelations consists of TWO Beasts - right?
You DO know the Great Tribulation = Revelation Beasts - right


If you do not understand these most BASIC facts then you
have NO UNDERSTANDING of either the Great Tribulation or
the Revelations Beast (which consist of the SAME people)


.

 

[5thKingdom]

I agree.

Not true... Not even CLOSE to being True.


Revelation 8 shows the period BEFORE the start of the
First Revelation Beast and BEFORE Satan is "loosened" in Rev 9:1.


The Great Tribulation Period BEGINS with Rev 9:1
Since the Great Tribulation consists of the 1st and 2nd Woes.
(the Fifth and Sixth Trumpets) The Lord's Return is shown at the
beginning of the (eternal) 3rd Woe, as the Seventh Trumpet sounds.
Which correlates with 1 Co 15


BEFORE the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast Starts:


Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


As the Great Tribulation/ (1st) Revelation Beast Starts


Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.


As the (2nd) Revelation Beast Starts


Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold,
there come two woes more hereafter.


Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,


AFTER the Great Tribulation is finished and
AFTER the Second Revelation Beast is destroyed
The Lord's Return is during the SEVENTH TRUMPET


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold,
the third woe cometh quickly.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


The chronology of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast
is very simple and the Lord does not Return until AFTER
the Great Tribulation is finished and the SECOND Beast is
Destroyed (at the end of the Sixth Trumpet/2nd Woe)


You DO know Revelations consists of TWO Beasts - right?
You DO know the Great Tribulation = Revelation Beasts - right


If you do not understand these most BASIC facts then you
have NO UNDERSTANDING of either the Great Tribulation or
the Revelations Beast (which consist of the SAME people)


.