• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by robycop3, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Wrong wording. Scripture never says that the Great Tribulation will be the "WORST EVER". These are YOUR words. Scripture says that there will never before or after be a tribulation "SUCH AS" the Great Tribulation. That means a CERTAIN TYPE of tribulation that would never be duplicated. You are putting your own interpretation of those words and spinning it to mean that it is speaking of an unequalled AMOUNT or LEVEL of intensity that would be the "worst ever". That's not what it says.

    The scripture says that "the great city" is where our Lord was crucified. This is Jerusalem in Rev. 11:8.
    Then the interpreting angel says in Revelation 17:8 that the imagery of the harlot called "Mystery Babylon" IS "that great city". Which has Revelation referring back to its own earlier reference to "the great city" in Revelation 11:8, which was Jerusalem.

    Have you never even heard of the rule of first mention? That is the writing technique being used here to identify "the great city" Jerusalem as "that great city" Mystery Babylon in Revelation. Not to mention a rebellious Jerusalem was called a "harlot" long before back in Isaiah 1:21: "How is the faithful city become an harlot!"

    Jerusalem operated as an inland port. A center of commerce for the ancient trade routes that ran through this district on their way north. Each feast day celebration brought members of every nation through Jerusalem's gates to worship and offer sacrifices. Not to mention, the Temple was given costly gifts from every nation, which were stored in the Temple's treasuries. Once that Temple was burned up and broken down to the last stone in AD 70, that source of commerce dried up, causing merchants and seafaring men to mourn over their lost trade.

    I've no problem with recognizing that the Roman Empire persecuted Christians horribly, especially during Nero's reign in particular for 42 months from the AD 64 fire at Rome until just before Nero's death. But Christ put the blame for the martyred death of prophets and saints squarely on Old Jerusalem; blame which is recorded for us multiple times in the gospels. Rome's governor may have authorized Christ's crucifixion, but it was at the insistent urging of the priesthood leadership, who Stephen claimed were "the betrayers and murderers" of Christ (Acts 7:52). The high priesthood called down a blood curse on their own heads and their children's for killing Christ, and they got what they asked for.

    You've got the wrong area. The region of "rivers and springs of water" has always been the Jordan valley at the top of the Dead Sea. The land that Lot saw was "well-watered everywhere, like the land of Egypt..." This region is well known for its hot springs and rivers that converge on this flat disc-shaped Jordan plain. There are even the remains of a Roman aqueduct there today, showing that this Jordan Plain has provided a source of drinking water for surrounding areas in times past.

    The time when this Jordan Valley plain became filled with blood was during the AD 66-70 period of time when Placidus was commissioned to chase down a mass of Jewish fugitives from the battles in Galilee. He kept them on the run all the way down the Jordan River, and ended up trapping them all against the swollen flood waters near Jericho. There he slaughtered them, and many drowned in the Jordan, trying to escape. Their dead bodies littered the landscape in this Jordan Valley, polluting the ground water, and literally giving the Jews "blood to drink" by the corrupted water sources. The angel said this was a fitting retribution for the Jews who had killed the prophets and saints. Being such a blood-thirsty bunch, they were "worthy" of having blood to drink.


    And this is the third time I have reminded YOU that Luke 21:22-23 says that the "Days of Vengeance" are the very same as the "GREAT DISTRESS IN THE LAND". That is, "Great Tribulation" in the land of Israel.
     
  2. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    The resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ is long past, back in AD 70. None of the living saints were translated back then, and none of those still living will be translated when the future THIRD coming of Christ occurs. No one has ever been given that promise in scripture of a translation type change for their still-living bodies. We must all die the ONE TIME, according to Hebrews 9:27-28. There's no escaping this result of the Fall.
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +452
    Baptist
    Married
    Matt. 24: 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    If that doesn't mean "worst ever", I don't know what does. Evidently, YOU don't, as that'd be inconvenient for your pret junk.
    And, of course, you ignore that Jesus went on to say that if those days wouldn't be cut short, all flesh (man & animal) would perish.

    Oh, HORSE FEATHERS! You're so full of pret baloney!
    No one's arguing that J isn't the city in Rev. 11, but the city in Rev. 18 is clearly ROME, as that city is called the one that reigns over the kings of the earth. At that time, only ROME fit the bill.

    More horse feathers & goofy Scripture-stretching & re-interpreting! Clearly, mystery, Babylon is a religion, the one founded by Nimrod & Semiramis, some of which has carried over to the RCC, with its mariolatry, celibate clergy, indulgences, purgatoryetc. And again, (Rev. 17: 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”)
    tthe only city that fulfills that description at that time was ROME, ITALY.



    Jerusalem was NOT an important PORT in those days, any more than it is now. (BTW, I live across the river from the USA's busiest-in-tonnage inlnd port, Huntington, WV.) And in Israel today, its biggest port is Tel Aviv, and old Ashdod isn't far behind. Clearly, the babylon of Rev. 18 will be a SEAPORT.

    No, Jesus put the blame on the WHOLE THEN-CURRENT GENERATIOON OF JEWS, not just on those in Jerusalem. But I will agree that the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERSHIP were the true murderers of Jesus; the Romans were just their instrument used to kill Him.



    The great trib will be WORLDWIDE, the Mississippi, & Amazon rivers will be turned to blood, as well as the Jordan, Nile, Rhine, Thames, & Volga, among others.

    You don't know history. Julius Placidus was a general in Vespasian's army, and yes, he led troops against a small group of Jews in one Galileean battle, but then, he was sent by Vespasian to Rome to capture Vitellius, who was Caesar at that time, & remained in Rome to serve under vespasian when the latter became Caesar. There weren't nearly enough Jews against him in the Galileean battle to bloody the Jordan River, let alone the springs & wells. You're simply telling another pret tall tale.




    OF COURSE there was great distress in the land, as there was in past invasions, such as the one by the Babylonians. There was greater distress when Hadrian booted the Jews off their land in 135-136 AD. But NONE of them was the great trib, which will be worldwide, replete with natural disasters hitting worldwide. Your pret stretches just won't fit prophecy.
     
  4. Ed Parenteau

    Ed Parenteau Member Supporter

    212
    +83
    Christian
    Married
    Please show me where in scripture you found this, as it sounds made up.
     
  5. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Robycop3, can't you read what you just quoted? It says "For then there will be great tribulation, SUCH AS" (meaning anything similar to) "has not been since the beginning of the world..." You want to arbitrarily assign an overriding QUANTITY or LEVEL of "worst ever" disasters to scripture's meaning, when it really refers to a CERTAIN KIND of disaster which would never again be duplicated before or after. This was true of the demonic oppression by the entire Satanic realm that Jerusalem and Judea experienced in what Christ called its "LAST STATE", which was just before its destruction in AD 70. Since God destroyed that entire Satanic realm in AD 70, this is a type of tribulation that has never and will never again occur after that time.

    Not so. You are putting YOUR OWN definition on this of what YOU think the "kings of the earth" are. I would rather rely on CHRIST'S description in Matthew 17:25 of who those "kings of the earth" WERE. Because they haven't been around any more since AD 70. We haven't had any "kings of the earth" / aka HIGH PRIESTS OF THE LAND OF ISRAEL since that entire physical Temple system was destroyed down to the last stone in AD 70. You are mistakenly reading this phrase with a 21st century mindset of what those "kings of the earth" (tes ges) were, but John was writing to those who knew the Jewish practice of considering their high priests as "kings" over the nation. It was what Moses had set up originally by God's design to govern the nation of Israel, when God called them a "kingdom of PRIESTS" in Exodus 19:6. Israel's "royalty" from old time was in its High Priesthood, whose judgment over even civil matters was supposed to prevail, as in Deuteronomy 17:8-12 and Psalms 122:2-5.

    The entire list of items of "Babylon's" merchandise given in Revelation 18: 12-14 was associated with Temple functions, sacrifices, and priesthood vestments. All the merchandise and profits which flowed through the Temple operations were dried up when the Temple was destroyed down to the last stone. Jerusalem time out of mind had been a center of the trade routes going through this area. Credit the indispensable Gihon Spring for Jerusalem being a literal oasis and center of commercial traffic. So solid was this reputation of being a vital trade center that Jerusalem was called in scripture "the navel of the land."

    You remember, I'm sure, that Christ on trial before Pilate told him that "he that delivered me unto you hath the GREATER SIN." (John 19:11). This tells us that Rome to a lesser extent shared in the blood guilt of putting Christ to death, but that the Jews who insisted on crucifying Him were guilty of a greater crime. Punishment was proportionate to the offense committed by each party. The Jews received the "GREAT Tribulation" during their "Days of Vengeance" for their crime (AD 66-70). The rest of the whole world under Rome's control received a LESSER Tribulation period during the "beginning of sorrows" (even before AD 66), when natural disasters, famines, and increased warfare in the whole empire was notably on the rise in the years preceding Israel's "Great Tribulation" during its "Days of Vengeance".

    You haven't checked the end of Placidus' commisioned activities, as found in Wars 4.7.4-6. After Placidus' chasing the fugitives from Gadara in Galilee down the Jordan River region with his 500 horsemen and 3,000 footmen, Josephus recorded a final 15,000 Jews slain in hand-to-hand combat near Jericho, as well as a "prodigious" number who jumped into the Jordan and drowned, and 2,200 taken prisoner. "Now this destruction that fell upon the Jews, as it was not inferior to any of the rest in itself, so did it still appear greater than it really was; and this, because not only the whole of the country through which they had fled was filled with slaughter, and Jordan could not be passed over, by reason of the dead bodies that were in it, but because the lake Asphaltitis" (the Dead Sea) "was also full of dead bodies, that were carried down into it by the river."

    This is the spring of AD 68 fulfillment of the "rivers and fountains of water" becoming a bloody landscape, which corrupted the waters of that Jordan plain at the top of the Dead Sea, and gave the Jews who had killed the prophets and saints "blood to drink" from this region.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  6. Ed Parenteau

    Ed Parenteau Member Supporter

    212
    +83
    Christian
    Married
    You don't believe any of the time statements, nor do you believe the grammar used by the NT writers is correct and then you keep adding to scripture to make your futurist doctrine sound plausible, except that no Berean would ever be able to find it in scripture. Jesus said "Matthew 23: 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened." Tell me, why don't you believe Him? What is more biblical, change your doctrine to fit the Bible or change the Bible to fit your doctrine?
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +452
    Baptist
    Married
    You just don't give up in inventing new interps of Scripture to try to lend a little credence to your pret trash.
    First, there were many destructions of cities by enemy armies before the one of J by the Romans, including an earlier one of J by the Babylonians. So there were certainly WERE tribs SUCH AS that of J in 70 AD. And there's absolutely NO Scriptural support for your "demonic oppression' of the Jews then. That's all your, or some other pret's, make-believe.



    Yet another goofy and entirely-WRONG private interp of Scripture again from you! You're just FULL of them, all in a vain attempt to try to justify your pret garbage!
    The kings of the earth in both Rev & Matt. 17 were JUST-THAT, rulers of nations or principalities. And there's no denying that CAESAR, IN ROME, ruled over the kings & other nabobs where the Jews lived. For examole,Herod was a king, but subject to Caesar.

    MORE SILLINESS ! Who do you think is stupid enough to believe such hooey? Certainly not I !
    Israel wanted a KING, as the surrounding nations had, so God gave them kings, beginning with Saul, telling Samuel the Israelis were hejecting HIM, GOD, as king, but He would go ahead & give them a human king. And those kings had authority over the priests as well as all other Israelis.




    Yet another tall tale! Your handle should've been "Aesop" or "Uncle Remus".
    Rev. 18:12 merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; 13 and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.(slaves)
    Most of those things were used by the wealthy of the land, and represent things used by the wealthy now, except that there's no more open slavery. Back then, a good, loyal slave was very valuable. And again, Jerusalem was soon found again, while "Babylon" shall be gone forever, as Scripture says.
    (Cont. next post)
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +452
    Baptist
    Married
    (Cont. from previous post)
    MORE SILLINESS!
    There'll be only ONE great trib, & it'll hit the WHOLE WORLD, but it'll hit the area of the antichrist's HQ the hardest. The "days of vengeance" was an event placed upon that generation of Jews only.



    I don't put much stock in Josephus' writings about events that took place during Vespasian's & Titus' lifetimes, as he was careful not to write anything that made the Romans look bad, lest he lose his head. Other sources, written by Romans, as well as those by Greex & other non-Roman or Jewish sources, say Placidus had a hard battle against those Jews, and a good many Roman soldiers were slain. And archaeological evidence does NOT bear out that a large number of either Jews or Romans were involved, or were slain, in those battles.

    Pure conjecture and guesswork, not at all borne out by archaeological evidence. And those stories were checked out by archaeologists from the famed Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Those researchers were hoping to find evidence of a large slaughter of Jews near the Jordan River such as Josephus wrote about, as that would give them leverage to inspire their nation to fight its enemies harder, but simply could NOT find it. The bones of the slain would've been well-preserved in the Dead Sea, & there simply weren't that many found.
    As I've said several times, Josephus wrote to please the Romans, not to be accurate as possible.
     
  9. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    I beg your pardon, but this is the literal truth predicted by Christ Himself in Matthew 12:43-45 of a seven-fold increase in wicked unclean spirits plaguing the generation He had just been casting demons out of. Look it up and read it. That generation's "last state" would be worse than it "FIRST" state when Christ and His disciples had cast demons out of its citizens.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +452
    Baptist
    Married
    Wrong again. Not everyone had an evil spirit possessing him/her. That generation fell into a poor state by rebelling against Rome, but again there's no Scriptural support for an invasion of evil spirits hitting Jerusalem,
     
  11. Fervent

    Fervent Well-Known Member

    +806
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    It seems to me the preterism is true/preterism is false debate is predicated on missing an important point about prophecy. It's not either/or, prophecy doesn't have a single fulfillment. In general there are two aspects to prophecy, a proximal referent and an eschatological one. The proximal referent was meant to confirm the prophet, a prediction made for the generation that was hearing the prophecy so that they would know that it was from God. The eschatological referent is for those who read the words of prophecy at a later date. For example, Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled in Isaiah's day, in the very passage that it is given and the enemies of Ahaz are defeated. But the fulfillment is incomplete, as the events are only a partial fit. Which is why when Matthew declares that its eschatolotical fulfillment with the birth of Jesus. In this same way, the preterist interpretation gives a proximal fulfillment that is a partial fit but there is a yet-future fulfillment that will completely fit.
     
  12. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Fervent, I would be the last one to deny that scripture often presents a double or sometimes even multiple fulfillments of certain prophecies over time. The Isaiah 7:14 example you brought up being a good illustration of a double fulfillment. For another example, I believe scripture presents no less than THREE predictions of group resurrection events; the first one in AD 33, the second in AD 70, and the third in our future.

    But acknowledging multiple fulfillments is hardly a requirement that ALL prophecy must be doubled or multiplied in its fulfillments. Otherwise, we would have multiple crucifixions of Christ, multiple launchings of the New Covenant in Christ's blood, with multiple endings of the Old Covenant, multiple times that the 12 Apostles began sitting on 12 thrones, providing the foundation for the New Jerusalem, multiple times the devil and his angels are slain, etc. There are some prophecies that can be fulfilled ONLY one time. It takes Berean study to ferret out which ones are the exceptions to a one-time fulfillment, and which are not.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  13. Fervent

    Fervent Well-Known Member

    +806
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Perhaps I overstated my case, as I didn't mean to imply that it is universally true of every prophetic utterance. But every major division of prophecy contains some proximal confirmation. Prophets are not simply expected to be trusted, but their prophecies are seen to be fulfilled in their day so that the audience knows they are a true prophet of God. If it was not so, the test of prophets given in Deuteronomy would not stand.
     
  14. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    If you had paid attention to what I wrote, you would have noticed that I did NOT say every single individual was possessed by an unclean spirit in that first century generation of Jews. The language of Revelation 18:2 says that during the great city's judgment, that EVERY UNCLEAN SPIRIT would become imprisoned within that great city "Babylon" / aka the great city Jerusalem, where Christ was crucified. It says that "Babylon the great...has become the habitation of devils, and a HOLD" (phulake - a prison) "of EVERY UNCLEAN SPIRIT..." That's EVERY ONE of them, without exception, being imprisoned in the great city. The complete, "seven times" more wicked presence of unclean spirits which Christ spoke of.

    If that single demoniac of Gadara had a "legion" of multiple unclean spirits within, and we are told that Mary Magdalene had seven devils cast out of her, then obviously it didn't take multiplied billions of people to fulfill Christ's promise of having EVERY UNCLEAN SPIRIT possessing someone in that first-century wicked generation. They may again have ganged up together, with multiple unclean spirits possessing single individuals.

    Robycopy3, your interpretations go askew, since you can't recognize that the city of Rome NEVER had a covenant relationship with God that they had become unfaithful to. This was a covenant with God that JERUSALEM had entered into, and had become unfaithful to, making her into a harlot. Jerusalem never reigned over all the monarchs of the known world, but she WAS reigning over the high priesthood "kings of the EARTH" (tes ges - the land of Israel) in John's days.

    Again, robycop3, you would rather go along with your own definition of what "kings of the earth" are, instead of trusting Christ's description of who the "kings of the earth" were. He was speaking specifically of the high priests of Israel in Matthew 17:25, who, along with their sons, had always been free from paying the Temple Tax half-shekel coin to support the Temple operations. The Tyrian shekel coin referred to in that context tells us just who those "kings of the earth" were that were demanding the tribute, and it wasn't regular emperors or monarchs of the nations Christ was speaking of that were doing the requiring of this Temple Tax.

    You aren't listing any sources for these archaeological findings, exact locations or data , or the dates of explorations. We are told that the dead of Israel in the battle of Gog against their fellow Israelites would result in their being buried in the Jordan Valley at the top of the Dead Sea. Unless you can prove that the entire Jordan Valley region has been excavated and examined for evidence of mass graves, then why should I believe your "evidence" to be conclusive proof against the historical record I have given above?
     
  15. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Thank you for clarifying a bit about your multiple-fulfillment stance on prophecy. That helps. I especially would also emphasize that in John's case, the prophecies he shared, as you mention above, actually WERE fulfilled in his day, so that the audience knew he was a true prophet of God.

    As for Revelation, we have written evidence that John himself was trusted by those in his generation to be a true prophet of God (John 21:24 - "This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and WE KNOW THAT HIS TESTIMONY IS TRUE". Also, in 3 John 12, John spoke of his own well-established reputation for truthfulness when he wrote "...and we also bear record; and YE KNOW THAT OUR RECORD IS TRUE.") Hands down, there was no possibility that John's testimony could be questioned by the believers of that day. Robycopy3 seems to agree with me that the beloved disciple John was the resurrected, beloved Lazarus, which would be proof positive that it would be impossible for John to be a false prophet. Glorified, resurrected saints can't utter a lie.

    Also, as you remember, the messenger "angel" in Revelation 22:9 told John that "...I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the saying of this book..." John was a true prophet, exactly like the messenger "angel" which gave him the visions, and he faithfully kept the sayings of the book He was given. As added proof of his truthful testimony, his prophecies actually WERE fulfilled in his generation.
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +452
    Baptist
    Married
    It's been repeatedly pointed out to you that Jerusalem is NOT the 2nd Babylon, as is proven by the Scriptural statement of Rev. 18:21. Again, Jerusalem was NEVER "not found any more", and, in fact, was soon rebuilt after it was destroyed. Nor does Scripture say those unclean spirits would be IMPRISONED in it; just that it'd be a dwelling place for them.Most lilely, it'll be hopping with vultures, buzzards, & other non-kosher birds not fit for human consumption.

    Evidently, demon possession will become more-common as the time for the fulfillment of the eschatological prophecies approaches. (There have been notable examples in recent times, such as Hitler.) And Jesus made no such promise that every evil spirit would possess someone.

    That's more horse feathers. The kings of the earth were not the high priests. They were subject to kings.

    The "temple tax" was not actually compulsory The Jews had no way to know who'd paid it & who hadn't, and the Romans wouldn't enforce it for them; they only kept up with their own taxes. (The publicans were Jews who collected Roman taxes from other Jews.) That had nothing to do with "kings of the earth".
    As I said, the kings of the earth then were same as they are now-rulers over nations & principalities. Your re-defining them just to try to systain the pret myth is downright silly.



    Your "historical record" is a tall tale by Josephus, written to keep the Romans happy. If you want to know the TRUTH, contact Hebrew University. Their email is online; just Google for it.
     
  17. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Robycop3, you aren't reading the actual text of the Revelation 18:2 verse. It says that the "great city" Babylon ("the great city" where our Lord was crucified - Rev. 11:18) during its prophesied judgment "has become the habitation of devils, and a HOLD (phulake - a PRISON or CAGE) of every unclean spirit...". Jerusalem became a prison for gathering all the demonic realm together in one place in those "Days of Vengeance".

    This "PRISON" in Revelation 18:2 for the unclean spirits is the SAME "prison" for punishing the "host of heaven" gathered together along with the "kings of the earth" in Isaiah 24:21-23. After many days of that imprisonment for all of them, they would be "found wanting". This means those imprisoned "kings of the earth" and the imprisoned "host of heaven" would be GONE. Once that happened, Isaiah said the Lord of hosts would reign gloriously in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem.

    We know that Satan's fate was to be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:10).
    We also know that God predicted in Isaiah 27:1 that He would "SLAY the Dragon that is in the sea".
    We also know that Christ said that "eternal fire" was prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41).
    We also know that the "anointed cherub" (who became Satan) was given a promise that he would be destroyed by fire and turned to ashes on the earth in the presence of "kings" (Ezekiel 28:18-19), and that "never shalt thou exist any more". Satan's annihilation predicted.
    We are also told in Zechariah 13:2 in the prophecy about Jerusalem's AD 70 destruction that God would cause "the unclean spirit to pass out of the land" (tes ges - out of the land of Israel).
    We also know that God testified that "His fire is in ZION, and His furnace in JERUSALEM" in Isaiah 31:9. That is the "Lake of Fire" phenomena being located in the city of Jerusalem, with Jerusalem's "eternal fire" coming from Mount Zion's Temple that was prepared for the Devil and his angels' destruction.

    Put all these references together, and you have a picture of Israel's high priest "kings of the earth" and the entire Satanic realm imprisoned together in Jerusalem during its AD 70 era of destruction, when the Satanic realm was destroyed to ashes in the sight of those "kings".

    You are quite right, robycop3, that the high priests were "subject unto kings". This just proves my point. That was the problem in John's days. Jerusalem had prostituted itself to Rome and had become a "harlot" in order to preserve its temple and nation. Jerusalem, as being governed by Rome at the time, really WAS ruling over the high priest "kings of the earth", by dictating who would be appointed to serve as high priests, and for how long, as well as restricting the high priest's original judicial ability to pass down sentences of judgment. Even the high priest's holy garments were held hostage in the Roman Fortress of Antonia instead of the Temple, and were doled out on the feast days at Rome's discretion.
     
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +452
    Baptist
    Married
     
  19. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +4,156
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    So, Sin and Suffering are NEVER eradicated from existence in your view?

    They will exist FOREVER?
     
  20. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    493
    +84
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Robycopy3, I have NOT ignored Revelation 20:10, where Satan was to be "tormented eis ton aionon", meaning until the end of the ages. You want to interpret this as a PERPETUAL TORMENT for Satan throughout eternity, because the KJV translators are giving you that idea. However, that's not what the Greek language entails with this "eis ton anionon" phrase.

    Didn't Hebrews 9:26 already say that "Now once, at the consummation of the AGES" Christ was manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself? That "consummation of the AGES" was at the end of 4,000 years and 4 ages of fallen man's history on this planet until that point. It was the SAME AGES that Revelation 20:10 was speaking of, when Satan was tormented during his imprisonment in Jerusalem until the end of THOSE AGES.

    You would do well to curb the bellicose style with which you post on this theme. Ultimately, it does not benefit your case, or the cause of Christianity. We are both in the same family of God, you know, and the unsaved world also has access to these forums, and can see how we relate to each other when it comes to disagreements in our interpretations.

    Even if I were completely wrong on every point, it is GOD who is well able to defend His own truth. False doctrine and false teachers eventually fizzle out on their own, just as Gamaliel once told his fellow Jews. If all Preteristic teaching is totally in the wrong, then it will disappear on its own. If there is truth within it, then nothing you can say will keep that truth from prospering and bearing fruit.
     
Loading...