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Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by robycop3, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    First, hades is not hell; hell is the lake of fire, which is now unoccupied. No, those in hades can't see what's happening here, nor do they even think about it, but Jesus will enable them to see His return. (He will have called the righteous out of paradise at the rapture.)
     
  2. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Opinion maters little. Where is the biblical proof of this?
     
  3. Ed Parenteau

    Ed Parenteau Member Supporter

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    It's taken from Ecclesiastes and the context is 9: 4For whoever is joined to all the living, there is hope; for better a live dog, than a dead lion. 5For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have a reward any longer, for their memory is forgotten. 6Indeed their love, their hate, and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.
     
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    We see in Jesus' parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus that the inhabitants of hades are conscious & can communicate, & from the context, we gather they don't know, nor an see, what's occurring here. And in English, hell is the place of eternal punishment of the wicked. In Hebrew, Sheol is same as the Greek hades, & both mean the temporary abode of the souls of the dead, while gehenna is the Greek word Jesus used for the lake of fire, which is final & eternal.

    As for the dead knowing what's going on here:

    “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun” (Eccl. 9:5-6).
    While they remember some things from here, they don't see nor know any more what happens after their deaths.

    Now-Can you show us any historical proof that the eschatological events have already occurred?
     
  5. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Then there are 3 witnesses, olive trees in the OT?
     
  6. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Why would a soul be spiritually blind? It is only while we are alive that we cannot see half of creation.
     
  7. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    You are reading from the mind of a person who turned his back on God and lost the kingdom to be divided by civil stress. Solomon had no hope in the afterlife and saw it equal to the futility of living without God in this life.

    One should trust Paul, who gave up this life for the Kingdom to come.

    If you think that nothing happens after death and no one is awarded for the actions they do in this life, you have no hope at all.
     
  8. Ed Parenteau

    Ed Parenteau Member Supporter

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    Question for futurists. How many generations of wicked servants have been right in saying that their master would be delayed a long time?
    Matthew 24: 48But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ 49and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know 51and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    Since Jesus came not but to the lost sheep of Israel, these servants must be Jews which harkens back to- Ezekiel 12:26And the word of the LORD came to me: 27“Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, ‘The vision that he sees is for many days from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’ 28Therefore say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: None of my words will be delayed any longer, but the word that I speak will be performed, declares the Lord GOD.”
    ~6 years later Jerusalem fell to Babylon.
     
  9. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    Both Job and Paul were exactly on the same page regarding the "CHANGE" of the dead bodies of the saints. Why would you think their statements were different?
     
  10. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    The Preterist screenwriter Brian Godawa is already in a position to write scripts for a movie with this theme, so I don't need to. I am doing nothing but quoting from scripture when I recount these "tall tales of evil spirits imprisoned". Save your mockery for those who can be bothered by it. Jerusalem was the city where "every unclean spirit" became imprisoned in Revelation 18:2. The Greek word used for what befell Jerusalem / aka Babylon the great city is "phulake", which is to quite literally become a prison. How does one imprison spirit beings? By imprisoning the people that the unclean spirits are possessing. This is what happened in the AD 66-70 era. Unclean spirits returned in seven-fold numbers more wicked than before to possess that "wicked generation", as Christ promised in Matt. 12:43-45. All of these unclean spirits ended up possessing those individuals imprisoned in Jerusalem during that period.

    As for the Great Tribulation afflicting the WHOLE EARTH, I have already emphasized repeatedly the Revelation 3:10 verse where Christ says point blank that the "hour of temptation is ABOUT TO COME upon the WHOLE WORLD..." in John's generation. This "Great Tribulation period" was fulfilled almost 2,000 years ago. The entire known world experienced upheaval in those tumultuous years, as well as the Jews within their own nation.

    You agree that the "Days of Vengeance" against the Jews took place back in the first century, but you deny that scripture says that the "Great Tribulation" was another name for the exact same time period. According to Luke 21:22-23, they are the same thing. "For these be the DAYS OF VENGEANCE, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be GREAT DISTRESS in the land, and wrath upon this people." The term "this people" meant those people in the land of Judea and Jerusalem. And they were going to experience "Great distress" in those "Days of Vengeance" before God "shattered the power of the holy people", as Daniel 12 describes it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
  11. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    You are misunderstanding the nature of what a "translation" entails. Enoch / aka Melchizedek was the lone, unique example of this by his being "translated that he should not see death". With that translation change, his physical body then became deathless and incorruptible - a type of Christ's deathless physical body that "continueth ever" in a perpetual high priesthood.

    For every child of God since creation until the end of fallen man's history who is "appointed once to die" - just as Hebrews 9:27 says that Christ died physically only once - their dead physical body's flesh and bones will be "changed" in the resurrection into an incorruptible condition. This process renders that old physical body's corruptible elements into a condition that can then share immortality with Christ. Job went to great lengths in Job 14:10-15 to describe this process. Don't you believe him?
     
  12. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    Robycop3, I am simply quoting scripture again. Hebrews 7:8 says that Melchizedek was still living when the book was being written. The connections between Enoch and Melchizedek are rather obvious, which I brought out in this link at reply #79 and #80:

    Who is Melchizedek?

    As for the Antichrist, you know from the GCF website that I have already identified that first century Zealot leader Menahem as fulfilling all the terms that the 2 Thess. 2 "Man of Lawlessness" would perform in his brief, meteoric rise to power in AD 66 Jerusalem.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    Again, that whole concept is not only false; it's just plain goofy. The 2nd Babylon is NOT Jerusalem! J was NOT thrown down so it wouldn't be found any more! (Rev. 18:21) Even after it was destroyed, some people still lived in it, & it was soon rebuilt. The 2nd Bab could well be Rome. But it's definitely not Jerusalem !

    No, it WASN'T. All life in the Mediterranean didn't die, its waters didn't become as the blood of a dead man, it didn't rain rocks, etc. And if the trib had occurred then, JESUS IS LONG-OVERDUE, as He said He'd return IMMEDIATELY AFTER those days.

    "All things written" meant UP TO THAT TIME when Jesus gave the prophecy. Of course, Rev hadn't yet been written, and the events of rev. 13 & 16 did NOT occur then. But at least we agree who "this people" was.

    As I said, you need to toss that pret garbage out the window and STUDY SOME HISTORY, & quit the sinful practice of twisting Scripture.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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  15. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    Robycop3, you aren't allowing scripture to define its own terms. John told us who Babylon / "the great city" was in Revelation 11:8. It was the city "where our Lord was crucified", and which was "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt" This is OLD JERUSALEM, with no doubt whatever, as God called it by the pejorative name of Sodom, and frequently compared Jerusalem and Israel to Sodom in the OT. (Isaiah 1:10, 3:8-9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:44-58, Amos 4:11, etc.).

    The idea of Jerusalem being thrown down so it wouldn't be found anymore is the destruction of Old physical Jerusalem and its temple as being the physical center of a worship system that had become outdated. All that was literally "thrown down", to make way for the present spiritual New Jerusalem in which you and I dwell under the New Covenant. There is no religious significance to the fact that another city's infrastructure has grown up on top of the destroyed heap that Old Jerusalem became back in AD 70.

    You and I have discussed before the rain of rocks, (catapult machinery in action during Jerusalem's AD 66-70 war), all living souls dying in the Mediterranean Sea when all Joppa's seafaring inhabitants in AD 68 were killed either by the violent storm or by the Romans when they tried to get back to shore, resulting in a shoreline that turned to blood. You aren't paying careful attention to the recipients on whom those plagues in Revelation 16 were poured out. The angel in Revelation 16:6 said that it was only justice that they got blood to drink in one of these plagues, because they themselves had shed the blood of saints and prophets. This is what Jesus said Jerusalem was guilty of through the centuries. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee.." (Luke 13:34). The blood of all the prophets shed from the foundation of the world was required of THAT generation who had slain their own Messiah. (Luke 11:49-51). The "great city Babylon" in Revelation 18:24 was guilty of "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." That was first-century Jerusalem which was plagued for this offense attributed to it.
     
  16. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The church is the only one who has been the wicked master since the Cross. The master of that time, the Jews, were removed, and the church was installed as master, who would be wicked and beat other church members.
     
  17. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Because Job had to wait for the Cross to be bodily resurrected. Paul claims the soul leaves this body for the permanent one in Paradise, that Job had already recieved, at the time Paul was writing letters to the churches.
     
  18. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I am not missing anything. The same thing will soon happen to millions on earth at the Second Coming.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    There's no mention of Babylon in that verse, nor the surrounding ones. You're just guessing again.

    More guesswork. First, Jerusalem is NOT a port, thile the 2nd Babylon is indicated to be a port in Rev. 18. Second, Jerusalem was never not found.

    Which is more of your guesswork & tall tales, to equate that with a plague of the great trib.

    [quote[all living souls dying in the Mediterranean Sea when all Joppa's seafaring inhabitants in AD 68 were killed either by the violent storm or by the Romans when they tried to get back to shore, resulting in a shoreline that turned to blood. You aren't paying careful attention to the recipients on whom those plagues in Revelation 16 were poured out.[/quote]
    No, YOU aren't paying attention to Scripture.
    Rev. 16:3 Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died. That means all the fish, water birds, etc. will die. And that's in the WHOLE SEA, not just some narrow strip of shoreline.
    Rev. 16:4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood.
    That, of course, will include all streams & rivers which empty into the Med.

    And I reminded you the destruction of J & the temple was the culmination of the "days of vengeance", which was NOT the great trib. Jesus said that trib will be the worst ever, while many worse catastrophes have hit on earth since then. And upon the Jews as well. Almost half the world's Jews died in the "holocaust" of the nazis.


    You just won't let the truth of Scripture sink in noor do you know much history. The 2nd Babylon is described as a great port & center of trade. That does NOT fit Jerusalem at all, while it DOES fit ROME, ITALY. A great many prophets & saints have been killed in Rome, or from orders coming from it. from the days of "Christians vs. Lions" games, to the Inquisitions & purges by the RCC, to the days of Mussolini & the Fascisti.[/

    You pulled another "Casey At The Bat".[/COLOR]
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    Gentlemen, as I said in the OP, there's simply nothing when studying history & Scripture together that supports the pret myth. The eschatological events have simply noe yet occurred. There's no use to try to re-write history nor twist Scripture to try to make something fit. Trying to fit past events into eschatological prophecy is trying to drive a square peg into a round hole. Just admit you were deceived & drop the false doctrine.
     
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