Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

[Dave G.]

Do YOU own a Ford Corvette? Ever seen one? And is a church always right about everything?

Well that's exactly my point in a nut shell. But they do so to speak .

No church is "always" right about everything.

 

[jgr]

When God's time comes, the Jews will build a new temple in Jerusalem.

The Jews thought God's time had come in 363 AD. They were wrong. There were more than a few carcasses and wounds to prove it.

They will never be right, because a temple which is the epitome of blasphemy will never be rebuilt.

 

[jgr]

@jgr ... and the historists/reformers claim the pope/papacy is the Antichrist and the beast.

...And the Reformation succeeded.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Or, by the old pret tactic of reducing "inconvenient" Scriptures that disprove their doctrine to "figurative/symbolic" status.

Well quite a bit of Revelation is written in figurative, symbolic and hyperbolic language.

 

[Timtofly]

By God's grace, another Reformation will arise to purge the Church of dispensational futurism's heresies and heterodoxies, and return the Church to the prophetic wisdom and enlightenment of the historical defenders of the true faith.

Yes, it is called the Second Coming.

It will no longer be future.

 

[parousia70]

I think the partial preterists claim Nero was the Antichrist and the beast. I could be wrong about what they claim.

Conflating the two, unique, disticnct, Biblical personalities of the Beast and Antichrist is a futurist thing based entirely on Man made tradition alone.

The Bible, and therefore preterism, does not teach that the Beast of Revelation is the same thing as Antichrist of 1 & 2 John.

 

[robycop3]

The Jews thought God's time had come in 363 AD. They were wrong. There were more than a few carcasses and wounds to prove it.

They will never be right, because a temple which is the epitome of blasphemy will never be rebuilt.

Well, actually, it WILL. It MUST exist for the beast/antichrist to commit the "abomination" in, & to stop sacrifices in.

I've said many times that it won't be an ACTUAL temple of GOD, as JESUS won't be worshipped in it, but the world will see it as such.

The Jews have everything they need to rapidly build it. The only thing they're waiting on is the right time, so they won't start WW3.

But don't doubt for a nanosecond that it won't be built, as it MUST be built, to fulfill prophecy.

 

[robycop3]

Well quite a bit of Revelation is written in figurative, symbolic and hyperbolic language.

And the meanings of much of it are easily seen, or explained in succeeding passages, such as Rev. 17 is. But much of it is as literal as saying, "We must breathe oxygen to live."

 

[parousia70]

I've said many times that it won't be an ACTUAL temple of GOD

So Paul was Wrong?

2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[robycop3]

So Paul was Wrong?

2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

To the ORTHODOX JEWS, it'll be a temple of God, but it'll "have a form of godliness, but denying its POWER."

Now, do you have another candidate temple for the beast to commit the abomination of desolation in?

 

[jgr]

Well, actually, it WILL. It MUST exist for the beast/antichrist to commit the "abomination" in, & to stop sacrifices in.

I've said many times that it won't be an ACTUAL temple of GOD, as JESUS won't be worshipped in it, but the world will see it as such.

The Jews have everything they need to rapidly build it. The only thing they're waiting on is the right time, so they won't start WW3.

But don't doubt for a nanosecond that it won't be built, as it MUST be built, to fulfill prophecy.

Paul disagrees.

Without exception, every reference by Paul to the temple of God is a reference to "naos" (Greek), the spiritual temple of the believer, collectively, the Church.

Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 was referring to something that would appear within the Church.

Nothing to do with a physical temple.

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[robycop3]

Paul disagrees.

Without exception, every reference by Paul to the temple of God is a reference to "naos", the spiritual temple of the believer, collectively, the Church.

Paul was referring to something that would arise within the Church.

Nothing to do with a physical temple.

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

How can he sit in a Spiritual temple? And how can he set up his statue in it?

Acts 22:17Paul's words)“Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance

Acts 25:8(Paul's words quoted)while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.”

Acts 26:21For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me.

So we see Paul often referred to the temple building. And a building is what he's referring to in 2 Thess. As I said, it MUST exist so the antichrist can perform the AOD.

 

[jgr]

How can he sit in a Spiritual temple? And how can he set up his statue in it?

He can usurp and claim spiritual authority within the Church. There is no reference to, or implication of, a statue in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Acts 22:17Paul's words)“Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance

Acts 25:8(Paul's words quoted)while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.”

Acts 26:21For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me.

Each of those references is to a "hieron" physical temple, not a "naos" spiritual temple of God.

So we see Paul often referred to the temple building. And a building is what he's referring to in 2 Thess. As I said, it MUST exist so the antichrist can perform the AOD.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 is a "naos" spiritual temple of God, not a "hieron" physical building. Antichrists were and are found within the Church. (1 John 2:18-19)

 

[anna ~ grace]

Partial preterism makes sense to me. At least, understanding that much of what we read in Revelation refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. That makes sense. A lot of sense. It makes more sense than trying to cram every single event in the Middle East for the past seventy years into Revelation.

 

[Douggg]

How can he sit in a Spiritual temple? And how can he set up his statue in it?

Acts 22:17Paul's words)“Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance

Acts 25:8(Paul's words quoted)while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.”

Acts 26:21For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me.

So we see Paul often referred to the temple building. And a building is what he's referring to in 2 Thess. As I said, it MUST exist so the antichrist can perform the AOD.

Hi robycop3, I gave your post a like because of it's overall truth.

The 2Thessalonians2:4 act by the Anticrhsit though is not the AoD, but the ToD (transgression of desolation). The AoD comes later, when a statue image of him is made and placed in the temple courtyard.

It has to be out in the open and visible that them in Judea will know to flee to the mountains. Primarily
the message is to the Jews, who being Torah observant restrict their travel on the Sabbath.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Well, actually, it WILL. It MUST exist for the beast/antichrist to commit the "abomination" in, & to stop sacrifices in.

I've said many times that it won't be an ACTUAL temple of GOD, as JESUS won't be worshipped in it, but the world will see it as such.

The Jews have everything they need to rapidly build it. The only thing they're waiting on is the right time, so they won't start WW3.

But don't doubt for a nanosecond that it won't be built, as it MUST be built, to fulfill prophecy.

Where does scripture indicate that there will be a future temple of God that is not ACTUALLY the temple of God but just one that the world sees as the temple of God? It doesn't.

Any reference to the temple of God in scripture is referring to a temple that God Himself and the writers of His word would consider to be the temple of God (whether physical or spiritual). So, some physical temple built by unbelieving Jews does not qualify.

 

[parousia70]

To the ORTHODOX JEWS, it'll be a temple of God, but it'll "have a form of godliness, but denying its POWER."

To PAUL, it is THE TEMPLE OF GOD.

Again, Was he wrong?

 

[DavidPT]

Well, actually, it WILL. It MUST exist for the beast/antichrist to commit the "abomination" in, & to stop sacrifices in.

I've said many times that it won't be an ACTUAL temple of GOD, as JESUS won't be worshipped in it, but the world will see it as such.

The Jews have everything they need to rapidly build it. The only thing they're waiting on is the right time, so they won't start WW3.

But don't doubt for a nanosecond that it won't be built, as it MUST be built, to fulfill prophecy.

How does it make good sense that animal sacrifices resume then are put to an end again in a temple God already got rid of ages ago? What is the reason animal sacrifices are put to end again in this alleged rebuilt temple? In this alleged rebuilt temple is it a good thing or a bad thing that these animal sacrifices are put to an end yet again?

 

[robycop3]

He can usurp and claim spiritual authority within the Church. There is no reference to, or implication of, a statue in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

But there is in the Revelation.

Each of those references is to a "hieron" physical temple, not a "naos" spiritual temple of God.



2 Thessalonians 2:4 is a "naos" spiritual temple of God, not a "hieron" physical building. Antichrists were and are found within the Church. (1 John 2:18-19)

There have been antichrists from Day One of His ministry, but *THE*antichrist, the 'man of sin', the 'beast', hasn't yet been made manifest.

 

[robycop3]

Where does scripture indicate that there will be a future temple of God that is not ACTUALLY the temple of God but just one that the world sees as the temple of God? It doesn't.

Any reference to the temple of God in scripture is referring to a temple that God Himself and the writers of His word would consider to be the temple of God (whether physical or spiritual). So, some physical temple built by unbelieving Jews does not qualify.

While God may consider many congregations & their sanctuaries to be "churches of God", there's no physical "temple of God" standing now.

When Paul wrote, the only physical temple of God then standing was the one in Jerusalem that was destroyed in 70 AD.

But there MUST be a standing temple for the beast to commit the AOD in.