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Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by robycop3, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Can you prove from Scripture, that upon death, the Holy Spirit remains forever in the physical body, that is buried or cremated?

    I agree that while the soul is in this body, this body is also the temple of the Holy Ghost. Why would you claim it remains the temple after death?

    If you point out some gnostic teaching, could you back your point up with some quote from gnosticism? When people reply, that is your opinion, or that is x, is that you guessing?

    Can I suggest that an obsession with a dead body is not healthy?
     
  2. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The second death is not the first resurrection. Do you have proof death equates to resurrection? Normally death means death, and resurrection means resurrection. They are antonyms not synonyms.
     
  3. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I think you have been reading too much about gnosticism. That is my guess and opinion.
     
  4. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    That body which has once housed the Holy Spirit which gave its spirit eternal life is forever considered a purchased possession belonging to Christ. Not one hair of the heads of the saints will perish, Christ promised the disciples, even though they might be martyred. We are given that Holy Spirit while still living as an "earnest", a "pledge" as a down payment guaranteeing our body's resurrection after death. That "earnest" will be fully paid at the redemption of the whole "purchased possession" - body, soul, and spirit together.

    "Whether we live, therefore, or die, we are the Lord's", Paul said.

    Joseph was commended for his faith in giving commandment concerning his bones. If those bones were only to be "disposed of" later on, why the commendation for Joseph giving that command?

    If it truly is an "obsession" to speak of the resurrection of the dead, then count me in along with Paul, who was determined to know nothing among the Corinthians except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Christ's bodily resurrection as a pattern for our own bodily resurrection was a basic ground-level belief for Paul. Hebrews 6:1-2 lists the resurrection of the dead as one of those basic foundations of the doctrine of Christ. I'm sorry you have a problem with it.

    I never even mentioned the "Second Death" above in my comment about the "remnant of the dead" coming to life again as being the "First Resurrection". The "Second Death" was Jerusalem's Lake of Fire phenomenon during the AD 70 era when the city of Jerusalem and the nation was dying again; the second time that had happened since Jerusalem's first death under the Babylonian invasion back in 586 BC.
     
  5. Jerryhuerta

    Jerryhuerta Historicist Supporter

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    Your opinion that none were dominant is an unlearned one. Centuries of developing the proper guidelines and the passage of time have led expositors to discern the imagery of the churches in tracing the history of the church. Each church has a pronounced theme, such as the ability to discern apostles in the first church of Ephesus, which is certainly indicative of the early rise of the church. The theme of the second church, Smyrna, is their persecution and martyrdom, which soon followed up until the time of the emperor Constantine, the most severe lasting during the reign of Diocletian. The theme of the following church, Pergamos, is that they dwelt in the seat of Satan and how many were seduced by this fraternization, this being acknowledged also by the preponderance of even secular historians concerning the conversion of the Roman empire to Christianity; the empire continued in many respects with pagan idolatry. And the illustrations of Thyatira have led contemporary historicists to interpret Jezebel as the papacy. This is just a cursory development, which relegates your opinion as unsupported.
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    No, the eschatological events simply haven't yet occurred. Trying to make other events into fulfillments of those prophecies is trying to drive a square peg into a round hole.
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    Sir, every English bible translation I know of reads, "We shall not all sleep" or likewise. I believe a host of Koine Greek translators who do it for a living know a little more about it than someone who reads a little bit from a lexicon.
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    Common-sense PERCEPTION is NOT adding to Scripture.
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    Pure guesswork. You must subscribe to the hooey of Darby & William Branham. Aside from the RCC, there was no dominant "Christian" church for a long time, and certainly no period where the types of the 7 Rev churches were each dominant. As I said, outside of the RCC, there's always been examples of all those church types existing at once ever since Jesus called them out, & there still is today. The "7 church ages" theory is bunk.
     
  10. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    I am comparing the English KJV with itself to prove my point. "We shall NOT all sleep" in I Cor. 15:51 is the very same type phrasing as "They were NOT all of us" in 1 John 2:19, which was referring to the antichrists that had all gone out from among the congregation.

    If your interpretation of "We shall NOT all sleep" allows for some exceptions who wouldn't die, but whose living bodies would be translated for the rapture, then to be consistent, you must ALSO allow that there were some exceptions among the group of antichrists leaving the congregation in 1 John 2:19 who really were "OF US", and counted as one of the believers. Use a little logic here, robycop3. It requires no lexicon whatever; just a simple comparison of scripture with scripture.

    NONE of those antichrists leaving the congregation in 1 John 2:19 belonged in fellowship with the believers.
    Also, NONE of those saints addressed in 1 Cor. 15:51 would sleep in the grave forever, but they would ALL be changed into the incorruptible. The reassurance was given that not a single dead saint's body would be left behind in the grave.
     
  11. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    My dear vociferous friend from GCF, you are still clanging the same cymbal over and over on both websites, without even looking at the scripture proof presented to you. You are interpreting all things by the limits of your own experience and the encyclopedias you say you consult for evidence. Scripture's internal testimony overrides both of these things, and is corroborated by matching historical records, which you claim don't exist.
     
  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    And when the rapture occurs, the still-living saints will be translated into their heavenly bodies.

    As for men being appointed to die once, the beast & false prophet will be cast ALIVE into hell without dying.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    OK, show them to us. And please, don't bring up Josephus' stuff. He wrote to keep Vespasian, then, Titus, happy, & used some enhancements & embellishments to do it.
     
  14. Jerryhuerta

    Jerryhuerta Historicist Supporter

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    As a futurist you are the one that subscribes to the hooey of Darby, not I. And you’re evading that your own futurists, ones that are actually published, hold to the prophetic view of the seven churches (Scofield, Lindsey, and Lahaye). You're entitled to your own opinion, but when it comes to the truth, those who hold mere opinions are in an ill way as compared to those who have knowledge. Holding the historical knowledge of the history of the church substantiates tremendous correspondence between what the seven churches state and the history of the church in this age. That's not just my opinion but the fruit of the knowledge of the history of the Church, which many learned scholars hold.
     
  15. Ed Parenteau

    Ed Parenteau Member Supporter

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    It is if there's no relationship to anything written in scripture. The dead watching us is not taught in scripture. As the scripture does say, the "dead know not anything".
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    There have been m,any outlines of the various "church ages" made, but none are correct. Types of all 7 of those churches have existed since those churches did, and exist today. You need another doctrine to support, as "7 church ages" is false.
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

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    But Jesus will enable those who pierced Him to see His return, or Rev. 1:7 is not true.
     
  18. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    There is NO "rapture" text that promises this so-called translation of the still-living saints. This is a fabrication that has unfortunately prevailed in modern-day thinking. It runs totally counter to the Hebrew 9:27 rule that "it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, and after this the judgment".

    You are mistaken that this Hebrews 9:27 rule was set aside for the Beast and the False Prophet thrown ALIVE into Hell. That's NOT what Revelation 19:20 says. It says that both of them were "thrown alive into A LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone". The "Lake of Fire" is NOT Hell, because scripture tells us that both Hell and Death themselves were thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14). Hell cannot be thrown into itself. These are two different things.

    People's concept of what the "Lake of Fire" actually is needs considerable revision. God tells us WHERE the "Lake of Fire" or the "Furnace of fire" was to be located. It was IN THE CITY OF JERUSALEM, according to Isaiah 31:9. In that verse, the Lord said that His "FIRE IS IN ZION, AND HIS FURNACE IN JERUSALEM."

    As you remember, the "Furnace of fire" was where there was going to be wailing and gnashing of teeth in Matthew 13:42. This is the same thing as the Lake of Fire in Revelation 19:20. And it was to be in the city of Jerusalem itself. The Lake of Fire was NOT intended to portray a realm of eternal torment in the afterlife. It was a LOCAL site of judgment, functioning within a finite period that ended, since the city of Jerusalem today is not still flaming with brimstone.

    Your deductions about the presumed translation of still-living people need correction in order to align with scripture.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
  19. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    I have shown you before a generous sampling of historical records on the other GCF website, and you have simply brushed them aside as not being included in your encyclopedia's content (which are a type of condensed "cliff's notes" versions of history, and are not exhaustive in content).

    Off the top of my head, I remember using Tacitus, Seneca, Quadratus, Eusebius, Ussher, ancient seismic records for Israel and the Mediterranean, the Syriac Peshitta, current archaeological evidences, etc., as well as Josephus for providing proof of Revelation's prophetic material having been fulfilled. It is really strange that you reject Josephus's eye-witness accounts of that era. He was the high priest Matthias's son, you know, with a thorough education of his people's history, and a front-row seat to the first-century AD 70 era events described in Revelation. In any court case, this eye-witness testimony would be given serious consideration, regardless of Titus becoming his patron.
     
  20. Ed Parenteau

    Ed Parenteau Member Supporter

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    The reason they added the 7 church ages to the Bible, is the exact same reason you added "Jesus will enable those who pierced Him to see His return". Both are added to scripture for the same reason--the assumption that futurism is true. The church at Philadelphia was told "10Because you have kept My word of perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of the testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who live on the earth. 11I am coming quickly; hold firmly to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."
    The church at Philadelphia no longer exists. Only Smyrna has a church now.
    As the book of Hebrews says:
    37FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,

    HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
     
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