Preterism Debunked

[BABerean2]

Then the religious Jews worship the true God, who is Jesus, whether they know it or not or, like it or not! How is this a problem for Christians?

If you are talking about modern Talmudic Judaism, which is based on the opinions of the rabbis, you need to read the book "Jesus in the Talmud" by Dr. Peter Schafer, who is Jewish scholar.
The Talmud claims that Christ is the illegitimate son of Mary and a Roman soldier. I also claims Christ is now in burning excrement.

Read 1 John 2:22-23.

It sounds like you may be attempting to promote "Dual Covenant Theology".

See the links below.

Pastor John Hagee (CUFI), let my people go!! - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry


Heresy: John Hagee and Dual Covenant Theology – Telling The Jews They Don’t Need Jesus — “Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, but not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity”

.

 

[Grip Docility]

Promoters of modern Dispensational Theology often claim that Zechariah 12:10 will occur on the day of Christ's Second Coming.

The problem is that Christ said otherwise in the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25.

There will be no second chances, at His Second Coming.

Based on 2 Thessalonians chapter 1, Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.

Pointing out this fact is not "pig headed arrogance".
The parable of the virgins is the Word of God, directly from the mouth of God's Son.

.

John 5:39

Take it all up with the Son... who is a JEW!

Arrogance is warned against in Romans 11. The same Jewish swagger that decided who’s who and what’s what before the Son walked among us is now in the unnatural branches which point fingers and declare hopelessness to the natural branches.

This is humorous and sad.

 

[Grip Docility]

If you are talking about modern Talmudic Judaism, which is based on the opinions of the rabbis, you need to read the book "Jesus in the Talmud" by Dr. Peter Schafer, who is Jewish scholar.

Then read 1 John 2:22-23.

It sounds like you may be attempting to promote "Dual Covenant Theology".

See the links below.

Pastor John Hagee (CUFI), let my people go!! - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry


Heresy: John Hagee and Dual Covenant Theology – Telling The Jews They Don’t Need Jesus — “Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, but not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity”

.

You hate the idea that unbelieving Jews have hope.

Mercy or Sacrifice... and you go straight for sacrifice at every turn.

 

[BABerean2]

You hate the idea that unbelieving Jews have hope.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

I hate the idea that some of us are promoting a false hope.

.

 

[Grip Docility]

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

I hate the idea that some of us are promoting a false hope.

.

And there it is... You declare hopelessness and false hope while quoting a verse from the same book that contains 1 John 4:8

To be direct...

1 Corinthians 13 makes it clear that Faith, Hope and Love that abound from Jesus Christ make no hope in Jesus... (AKA GOD) for great things concerning the limitless boundaries of His Love and Mercy... (Romans 11:11-36) Hopeless.

 

[Grip Docility]

And... did you just quote telecast rhetoric...

Sighhhhhhh

Nothing pop or mainstream about that... (Sarcasm)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

klutedavid said: ↑
I don't think that the article says that Abraham's DNA, is found in everyone?

That... and Abe wasn’t a “Jew”.
Jacob was the beginning of Israel...
Good old Supersessionalists like to complicate implicity...
All the best to you, friend and thank you for representing the tangent perspective so well!

Correctomundo. I like simplicity.
Abe was a Hebrew. He had 2 sons: Isaac and Ishmael. 1 born of Sarah and the other from a slave girl, Hagar...

Gen 25:9
His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Isaac bore Jacob and Esau
Gen 25:27
The boys grew up, and Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the open country, while Jacob was content to stay at home among the tents.

Mat 1:2
Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
===============================
Our bro Paul was a Hebrew of Hebrews from the tribe of Benjamin:

Phl 3:5
circumcised on the eighth day, of the race<1085> of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the Law, a Pharisee;
============================================
The 3 Tribes of the Southern Kingdom of Judah [blue] and Judah's 5 full blooded brothers born of Leah:

Leah: 1 Reuben 2 Simeon 3 Levi 4 Judah 9 Issachar 10 Zebulun
Rachel 11 Joseph 12 Benjamin
Bilhah [Rachel's maid] 5 Dan 6 Naphtali
Zilpah [Leah's maid] 7 Gad 8 Asher
================================
Which, according to this commentator, identifies the "Rich Man" in this parable of Luke 16 as "Judah".

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' "

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35).
He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

Why is the Rich-Man in Luke 16:24 calling out to Abraham?
==================================
Map of the division of the 12 Tribes. The Levites have their own partition of land.....

Eze 48:22
So the property of the Levites and the property of the city will lie in the center of the area that belongs to the prince. The area belonging to the prince will lie between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin.

 

[Grip Docility]

Correctomundo. I like simplicity.
Abe was a Hebrew. He had 2 sons: Isaac and Ishmael. 1 born of Sarah and the the other from a slave girl, Hagar...

Gen 25:9
His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Isaac bore Jacob and Esau
Gen 25:27
The boys grew up, and Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the open country, while Jacob was content to stay at home among the tents.

Mat 1:2
Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
===============================
Our bro Paul was a Hebrew of Hebrews from the tribe of Benjamin:

Phl 3:5
circumcised on the eighth day, of the race<1085> of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the Law, a Pharisee;
============================================
The 3 Tribes of the Southern Kingdom of Judah [blue] and Judah's 5 full blooded brothers born of Leah:

Leah: 1 Reuben 2 Simeon 3 Levi 4 Judah 9 Issachar 10 Zebulun
Rachel 11 Joseph 12 Benjamin
Bilhah [Rachel's maid] 5 Dan 6 Naphtali
Zilpah [Leah's maid] 7 Gad 8 Asher
================================
Which, according to this commentator, identifies the "Rich Man" in this parable of Luke 16 as "Judah".

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' "

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35).
He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

Why is the Rich-Man in Luke 16:24 calling out to Abraham?
==================================
Map of the division of the 12 Tribes. The Levites have their own partition of land.....

Eze 48:22
So the property of the Levites and the property of the city will lie in the center of the area that belongs to the prince. The area belonging to the prince will lie between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin.

View attachment 256298

How do I hit Like, Love and Winner at the same time?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus... “No man knows the day nor the hour”...

Acts 1... “it is not for me to reveal things the Father has appointed”

Revelation... The dead are raised in Physical Corpreal Form
Full and Partial Preterism claim 70 AD is the fulfillment of the day and the hour...
Problem! The dead haven’t been raised in physical Corpreal form yet...
Thus... the Day and the Hour remains UNKNOWN while preterists seem to think they know more than God the Son while He walked this earth, before His Death, Burial and Ressurection...

Hello G D. This thread may interest you:

A Corporeal Return? Says Who?

Jesus tells Caiaphas that he is coming in power in the clouds of heaven (Mt 26:64). Yes, clouds of heaven; not a stratus cloud, a cumulus cloud, or a fog hovering over a lake. Clouds of heaven.

Jesus also says that he will come “as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west.” (Mt 24:27) He comes as light from all directions. Also as the sound of the trumpet of God. (1 Thes 4:16). To repeat, a trumpet of God, not marching band brass.

The Bible does not describe a flesh-and-blood return of Christ.

When we consider all the ways that the Parousia is prophesied, we see that he comes everywhere. Lightning lights up the sky all around. The nature of his coming may elude us until we grasp it in the context of scripture. The way that Jesus comes—on clouds of heaven, as a call from God, as lightning—cannot be manifested in flesh and blood. A man cannot come in these ways. Christ’s advent is rather a return in power and spirit that the Scriptures corroborate. How much more glorious and momentous an advent that would be than to come in the body of a man.

Think about that for a moment, about limitations imposed on flesh and blood, even Christ’s. When in the flesh, Jesus performed miracles and amazed the crowds around him, and even some who heard by word of mouth. His miracles impacted locally. If he were to be a man again, what would change? What would his impact be globally and for all time? Would he really effect a worldwide utopia? Of course not. Even a return in power and spirit would not effect such an “idyllic” world. John the Divine says the wicked still live on the earth despite the presence of the kingdom. God’s kingdom does not vanquish evil from the world. It confronts evil and challenges it, but wickedness still persists outside the gates.

So where does the idea of a corporeal return come from? The church fathers? Dispensationalists? Who knows?

Certainly not from the Scriptures.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Grip Docility said: ↑
That... and Abe wasn’t a “Jew”.
Jacob was the beginning of Israel...
Good old Supersessionalists like to complicate implicity...
All the best to you, friend and thank you for representing the tangent perspective so well!

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Correctomundo. I like simplicity.
Abe was a Hebrew. He had 2 sons: Isaac and Ishmael. 1 born of Sarah and the the other from a slave girl, Hagar...

How do I hit Like, Love and Winner at the same time?

Cash would be nice

The Old City of Jerusalem covers less than one square kilometer and is home to Jews, Christians and Muslims. The political tensions dividing Israel and the Palestinians are felt acutely here. How do the Old City's residents deal with this stress? We put that question to three families and to three clerics representing the three 'world religions'.

 

[Grip Docility]

Cash would be nice

The Old City of Jerusalem covers less than one square kilometer and is home to Jews, Christians and Muslims. The political tensions dividing Israel and the Palestinians are felt acutely here. How do the Old City's residents deal with this stress? We put that question to three families and to three clerics representing the three 'world religions'.

I’m excited to review this tomorrow! Gratitude!

 

[Grip Docility]

Cash would be nice

The Old City of Jerusalem covers less than one square kilometer and is home to Jews, Christians and Muslims. The political tensions dividing Israel and the Palestinians are felt acutely here. How do the Old City's residents deal with this stress? We put that question to three families and to three clerics representing the three 'world religions'.

Thank you so much for this! It was an incredible watch! It was my morning coffee, viewing!

<3

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
The Old City of Jerusalem covers less than one square kilometer and is home to Jews, Christians and Muslims. The political tensions dividing Israel and the Palestinians are felt acutely here. How do the Old City's residents deal with this stress? We put that question to three families and to three clerics representing the three 'world religions'.

Thank you so much for this! It was an incredible watch! It was my morning coffee, viewing!

Thank you for posting that and your very welcome.

1 of the comments on that video mentions the Old City of Jerusalem and while doing a word study on it in the NT, I noticed there are 2 different Greek words used for it. Has anyone else seen this?

Pre70ad Jerusalem: drawing of "old city" and "new city"

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

2414. Hierosoluma of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierosolyma (i.e. Jerushalaim}, the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2419.
G2414 matches the Greek (Hierosolyma), occurs 59 times in 59 verses

10 chapters in Acts-------- 18 verses
1, 8, 11, 13, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28,
8 chapters in Matt------- 12 verses
2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 20, 21
7 chapters in John------- 12 verses
1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11,12
5 chapters in Mark------- 9 verses
3, 7, 10, 11, 15
4 chapters in Luke-------- 5 verses
2, 18,19,23
2 chapters in Galatians----- 3 verses
1 and 2

1st and last verses:

Matthew 2:1
Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem<2414>,

Galatians 2:1
Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem<2414> with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me.
===========================
2419. Hierousalem of Hebrew origin (3389);
Hierusalem (i.e. Jerushalem), the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2414.
G2419 matches the Greek (Ierousalēm), occurs 83 times in 80 verses

26 chapters Luke-----27 verses
25 chapters Acts--------40 verses
2 chapters Revelation--- 3 verses
1 chapter Romans-------4 verses
1 chapter Galatians----- 2 verses
1 chapter Matthew---- 1 verses
1 chapter Mark---------1 verses
1 chapter 1 Corin--------1 verse
1 chapter Hebrews------ 1 verse
0 chapters for John--- 0

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain,
and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem<2419>, descending out of heaven from God,
==========================================
This interesting map shows there was both a upper and lower City:

======================================
This one shows both an old City and new City during the siege of 70ad:

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
...........

 

[Grip Docility]

Thank you for posting that and your very welcome.

1 of the comments on that video mentions the Old City of Jerusalem and while doing a word study on it in the NT, I noticed there are 2 different Greek words used for it. Has anyone else seen this?

Pre70ad Jerusalem: drawing of "old city" and "new city"

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

2414. Hierosoluma of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierosolyma (i.e. Jerushalaim}, the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2419.
G2414 matches the Greek (Hierosolyma), occurs 59 times in 59 verses

10 chapters in Acts-------- 18 verses
1, 8, 11, 13, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28,
8 chapters in Matt------- 12 verses
2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 20, 21
7 chapters in John------- 12 verses
1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11,12
5 chapters in Mark------- 9 verses
3, 7, 10, 11, 15
4 chapters in Luke-------- 5 verses
2, 18,19,23
2 chapters in Galatians----- 3 verses
1 and 2

1st and last verses:

Matthew 2:1
Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem<2414>,

Galatians 2:1
Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem<2414> with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me.
===========================
2419. Hierousalem of Hebrew origin (3389);
Hierusalem (i.e. Jerushalem), the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2414.
G2419 matches the Greek (Ierousalēm), occurs 83 times in 80 verses

26 chapters Luke-----27 verses
25 chapters Acts--------40 verses
2 chapters Revelation--- 3 verses
1 chapter Romans-------4 verses
1 chapter Galatians----- 2 verses
1 chapter Matthew---- 1 verses
1 chapter Mark---------1 verses
1 chapter 1 Corin--------1 verse
1 chapter Hebrews------ 1 verse
0 chapters for John--- 0

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain,
and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem<2419>, descending out of heaven from God,
==========================================
This interesting map shows there was both a upper and lower City:

======================================
This one shows both an old City and new City during the siege of 70ad:

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
...........

Wow!!!! So excited you posted this! I will be studying on this!

You are a blessing!

 

[Grip Docility]

Hello G D. This thread may interest you:

A Corporeal Return? Says Who?

Oh my! I bit... we’ll see where it goes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Thank you for posting that and your very welcome.

1 of the comments on that video mentions the Old City of Jerusalem and while doing a word study on it in the NT, I noticed there are 2 different Greek words used for it. Has anyone else seen this?

Wow!!!! So excited you posted this! I will be studying on this!

You are a blessing!

You are also a blessing.
Go to the 4:30 mark of this great video to get views of what Titus and his army were up against.
Walls, upper and lower city, new city and second city...........also Antonia Fortress and Temple.


Invicta Published on Dec 12, 2016

(Learn about military history on the official Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/THFE-Product...) The Siege of Jerusalem stands out as one of the most brutal examples of Classical Era total war since the fall of Carthage over 200 years earlier! In part 1 we discuss the lead up to the siege as well as the details of the attacking and defending forces.
More Classical Antiquity Documentaries: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list... Literary Sources: "The Jewish Revolt" by Si Sheppard "The Forts of Judaea" by Samuel Rocca "Legions of Rome" by Stephen Dando-Collins "Uniforms of the Roman World" by Kevin Kiley Game Engine: Total War: Rome II Game Mods: Devide et Impera Legions of Rome

 

[Grip Docility]

You are also a blessing.
Go to the 4:30 mark of this great video to get views of what Titus and his army were up against.
Walls, upper and lower city, new city and second city...........also Antonio Fortress and Temple.

More morning Coffee viewing! Thank you!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
You are also a blessing.
Go to the 4:30 mark of this great video to get views of what Titus and his army were up against.

Titus sieges Jerusalem on Feast of Passover/Destroyer in Revelation
Walls, upper and lower city, new city and second city...........also Antonio Fortress and Temple.

More morning Coffee viewing! Thank you!

Welcome.
A morning dose of caffeine perks up the body and mind.....................

tulc's Heresy Coffeehouse

I was thinking we could use a place to air our heresies and drink coffee.
Anyone want to supply some treats?
I find most heresies go better with coffee and treats.
tulc(there's coffee on!)