Grip Docility

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Yeah... the temple idea is not cool. Jesus is the Temple... but the people are rising again and Jesus and all scripture make it clear the desolation would be for a time.

Romans 11 addresses the tree and goes on to show there is still a literal mystery God has planned for even the disobedient of Jacobs people.

As far as theocracy...

He left from the Mount of Olives per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 shows that He will return there.
 
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Grip Docility

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Romans 9:24-26..... And it shall come to pass, that in the very place [the holy Land] it was said unto them, [ethnic Israel] You are no sons of Mine, they [those called from faithful Jews and Gentiles, as stated in verse 24] will be called the children of the Living God.
The vast multitude
of Revelation 7:9 & 14 are seen by John, in the holy Land. Proved by Revelation 14:1, where Jesus is revealed to His people. I Thessalonians 1:10

THANK YOU!!!! Bless you, Brother!
 
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claninja

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Luke 17:21
Nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.
I agree, just trying to establish if grip believes the kingdom of God is the same as the restored kingdom if israel
 
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BABerean2

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I am amazed that people still think democratic, modern Israel, will rebuild the temple on the temple mount. An astounding claim, Israel will start shedding the blood of thousands of animals for their sin. This is such a profoundly incorrect interpretation, I am just amazed that anyone could believe such a thing.

I am shocked that some Christians have given money to the Temple Institute for this purpose.

The confusion between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ has led to this sorry state of affairs within the modern Church.

Sadly, modern Judaisers like Pastor Mark Blitz are a big part of the problem.
He claims to be a Christian pastor, but yet is calling for a rebuilt temple.


See the link below.

Messianic preparations underway as 3rd Temple planned

.
 
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Grip Docility

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I am shocked that some Christians have given money to the Temple Institute for this purpose.

The confusion between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ has led to this sorry state of affairs within the modern Church.

Sadly, modern Judaisers like Pastor Mark Blitz are a big part of the problem.
He claims to be a Christian pastor, but yet is calling for a rebuilt temple.


See the link below.

Messianic preparations underway as 3rd Temple planned

.

The only Temple of Israel is Jesus. In everything I’ve said... I remain emphatic about that.
 
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BABerean2

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The only Temple of Israel is Jesus. In everything I’ve said... I remain emphatic about that.

Have you ever noticed that the star you have on the lion's face has 6 triangles, with 6 outer points, and the inner figure is a hexagon, which has 6 sides?

Is this figure found anywhere in the Bible?


.
 
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Grip Docility

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Have you ever noticed that the star you have on the lion's face has 6 triangles, with 6 outer points, and the inner figure is a hexagon, which has 6 sides?

Is this figure found anywhere in the Bible?


.

I am Jewish by blood and Christian at heart. I rock the star out of Love for the victims of the holocaust and my brethren that passed in the atrocity.

The Lion is Jesus.

All Love to ya m8.
 
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klutedavid

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I am shocked that some Christians have given money to the Temple Institute for this purpose.

The confusion between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ has led to this sorry state of affairs within the modern Church.

Sadly, modern Judaisers like Pastor Mark Blitz are a big part of the problem.
He claims to be a Christian pastor, but yet is calling for a rebuilt temple.


See the link below.

Messianic preparations underway as 3rd Temple planned

.
We are supposed to be fixated by the eternal kingdom above. Yet these folk want to place Israel under the law of Moses, and then rebuild the earthly temple. I honestly don't think that they understand the gravity of their interpretation. A bizarre, erroneous and impossible interpretation.
 
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klutedavid

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Yeah... the temple idea is not cool. Jesus is the Temple... but the people are rising again and Jesus and all scripture make it clear the desolation would be for a time.

Romans 11 addresses the tree and goes on to show there is still a literal mystery God has planned for even the disobedient of Jacobs people.

As far as theocracy...

He left from the Mount of Olives per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 shows that He will return there.
Once the old covenant was terminated, all the promises relating to the nation of Israel are redundant. The promised land became a vacant lot. The nation of Israel was a type that had a future fulfillment, not a race of people called Israel. A future chosen people, a new creation of people, a spiritual people of Jacob.

For some unknown reason, people do not see Jesus as the absolute fulfillment of all the old testament prophecy. The literal people of Jacob have been grafted out and Paul, did not live long enough to see that fulfillment. Paul suspected that they may have been grafted out, unfortunately Paul would not have written what he wrote. In chapter eleven of Romans given another decade to live.

The nation of Israel was a chosen nation in the past tense, a new chosen nation in Christ now exists. We await the heavenly Jerusalem with Christ as the temple, not an earthly theocratic Jerusalem.
 
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Grip Docility

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Once the old covenant was terminated, all the promises relating to the nation of Israel are redundant. The promised land became a vacant lot. The nation of Israel was a type that had a future fulfillment, not a race of people called Israel. A future chosen people, a new creation of people, a spiritual people of Jacob.

For some unknown reason, people do not see Jesus as the absolute fulfillment of all the old testament prophecy. The literal people of Jacob have been grafted out and Paul, did not live long enough to see that fulfillment. Paul suspected that they may have been grafted out, unfortunately Paul would not have written what he wrote. In chapter eleven of Romans given another decade to live.

The nation of Israel was a chosen nation in the past tense, a new chosen nation in Christ now exists. We await the heavenly Jerusalem with Christ as the temple, not an earthly theocratic Jerusalem.

Ahhhh... but Romans 11 dovetails into exactly what you said and adds a bit more.

It is by land and Lineage.

Indeed... the Law is Love and the Old Covenant is God’s eternally to be Perfect by.

However... God will use Israel to open eyes and dispense final Mercy...
 
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klutedavid

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Ahhhh... but Romans 11 dovetails into exactly what you said and adds a bit more.

It is by land and Lineage.

Indeed... the Law is Love and the Old Covenant is God’s eternally to be Perfect by.

However... God will use Israel to open eyes and dispense final Mercy...
Are you referring to this?

25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written
 
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Grip Docility

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Are you referring to this?

25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written

And it goes on to cite Jacobs people and binds Gods Great Mercy to them, despite their hard hearted blindness that Paul aches about throughout all of his writings.
 
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Jipsah

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Full and Partial Preterism claim 70 AD is the fulfillment of the day and the hour...
Love beating those straw men, don't you old man? But leaving the scenery chewing aside, here's what orthodox preterism is about: Events that have occurred, have occurred. No good claiming they didn't happen, or that they didn't count, or that they'll be repeated later on. A fulfilled prophecy is a fulfilled prophecy.

For example, the desecration and destruction of the temple. Occurred as our Lord said it would. OPs believe that. Futurists do not; they say that fulfillment didn't count because it doesn't support their End Times schedules, so they imagine another temple.

Related to that, the cessation of the daily sacrifice. To no one's surprise, it happened when the temple was desecrated and destroyed. It has not taken place since. OPs say that prophecy has been fulfilled. primarily because it has. Futurists say no, it didn't count, and has to happen again because it doesn't support their End Times schedules, so they imagine sacrifice starting again so it can end again, thus making their doctrinal predictions work out.

Related to that, the 490 years prophesied by the prophet Daniel. The precise start time is still a matter of debate, but the end of it is very precisely delimited by the destruction of the temple and the cessation of sacrifice. The time is as close to 490 years as makes no difference. OPs say that the prophecy of Daniel has been fulfilled as foretold. Futurists say no,it didn't happen at all because it doesn't support their End Times schedules, so they imagine that when the prophet said 490 years he really meant more then 2000 years, thus making their doctrinal predictions work out.

Our Lord's warning to His disciples of the sack of Jerusalem, and the admonition that when they saw the city beseiged, to get out. Once again, this happened as He foretold, Jerusalem was devastated, and those who heeded His warnings had a chance to get clear and continue to spread His Word. OPs say that prophecy was fulfilled. Futurists, once again, say it didn't count, and has to happen again because it doesn't support their End Times schedules.

Anyone else see a pattern developing here?

And the beat goes on and on. Futurists contrive their elaborate End Times scenarios, many of them depending on events long past happening again, because otherwise their scenarios are ridiculous. So they "reinterpret" Scripture to read in meanings that jibe with their doctrine, denying some historical events and accepting others based on one single criterion - whether or not it fits with their doctrine.

The Futurists are like the software developer who writes a system that depends for its operation on conditions existing which in fact do not exist in the real universe, so he sets out changing the universe so that it corresponds to the logic in his program, Obviously a nonsensical notion. But that is the approach that Futurists take with Scripture and history. If the facts don't fit their doctrines, then rather than changing their doctrine to reflect reality, their answer is to change reality to fit their doctrines. While they're tilting at those factual windmills they are continually defaming and misrepresenting those who insist on dealing in reality, chucking insults and anathemas with equal enthusiasm.

BTW, the easily predictable Futurist response to this is a wholly false, scurrilous, and usually knowingly mendacious charge that OPs do not believe that our Lord will return as He said. So too put that lie to rest, these extracts from the creeds which all orthodox preterists confess:

Apostle's Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit; Born of the Virgin Mary; Suffered under Pontius Pilate; Was crucified, dead and buried; He descended into Hell; The third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven; And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

Nicene Creed
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man: Who for us, too, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried: the third day He rose according to the Scriptures, ascended into heaven, and is seated on the right hand of the Father: He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end.

In addition, the church to which I belong confesses at each service:
"Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again."

If anyone claims we OPs do not believe these things, they are in fact either militantly ignorant or simply lying. Neither makes for a good character reference.
 
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Haipule

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Hello Haipule.

Very good point, they did indeed crucify the author of life. A damning statement about mankind's nature, how could we be so blind to commit such a profound act.

Not really, the Jews denied the Christ and were corrupting churches everywhere. Paul's opponents were his own countrymen, they were the only ones who knew the Old Testament. They were the only race on earth who knew all about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So they carried a lot of weight in church.
"Carrying Weight" does not mean so much to me. "Carrying Weight" is just useless excess baggage. I have no room, from God, for a guilt trip!

I do NOT need to know what anyone teaches, so much as, I need to know what God is teaching me(as we all do). And would love to know what God is teaching, about life, to anyone(personally).

The clergy(death) of the church has it's marching orders from God(death). Everyone else has their marching orders from God(life), which is life and NOT DEATH! Does not Paul clearly teach that death works in us(clergy: Paul and Timothy, 2 Cor 4), so that life works in us(the church)? IOW's the purpose of Paul and Timothy's death was that we MIGHT live abundantly?

Somehow, the clergy has NOT figured that out yet. As if their (death)life is so perfect for us laymen? Not in a million years!

Paul calls death and life a "fragrant aroma". I HAVE BEEN NOT CALLED TO DEATH! I have been called to live and that, more abundantly!

Oh, I'm sorry, does anyone not yet get this, except us lifers?
 
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Grip Docility

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Love beating those straw men, don't you old man? But leaving the scenery chewing aside, here's what orthodox preterism is about: Events that have occurred, have occurred. No good claiming they didn't happen, or that they didn't count, or that they'll be repeated later on. A fulfilled prophecy is a fulfilled prophecy.

For example, the desecration and destruction of the temple. Occurred as our Lord said it would. OPs believe that. Futurists do not; they say that fulfillment didn't count because it doesn't support their End Times schedules, so they imagine another temple.

Related to that, the cessation of the daily sacrifice. To no one's surprise, it happened when the temple was desecrated and destroyed. It has not taken place since. OPs say that prophecy has been fulfilled. primarily because it has. Futurists say no, it didn't count, and has to happen again because it doesn't support their End Times schedules, so they imagine sacrifice starting again so it can end again, thus making their doctrinal predictions work out.

Related to that, the 490 years prophesied by the prophet Daniel. The precise start time is still a matter of debate, but the end of it is very precisely delimited by the destruction of the temple and the cessation of sacrifice. The time is as close to 490 years as makes no difference. OPs say that the prophecy of Daniel has been fulfilled as foretold. Futurists say no,it didn't happen at all because it doesn't support their End Times schedules, so they imagine that when the prophet said 490 years he really meant more then 2000 years, thus making their doctrinal predictions work out.

Our Lord's warning to His disciples of the sack of Jerusalem, and the admonition that when they saw the city beseiged, to get out. Once again, this happened as He foretold, Jerusalem was devastated, and those who heeded His warnings had a chance to get clear and continue to spread His Word. OPs say that prophecy was fulfilled. Futurists, once again, say it didn't count, and has to happen again because it doesn't support their End Times schedules.

Anyone else see a pattern developing here?

And the beat goes on and on. Futurists contrive their elaborate End Times scenarios, many of them depending on events long past happening again, because otherwise their scenarios are ridiculous. So they "reinterpret" Scripture to read in meanings that jibe with their doctrine, denying some historical events and accepting others based on one single criterion - whether or not it fits with their doctrine.

The Futurists are like the software developer who writes a system that depends for its operation on conditions existing which in fact do not exist in the real universe, so he sets out changing the universe so that it corresponds to the logic in his program, Obviously a nonsensical notion. But that is the approach that Futurists take with Scripture and history. If the facts don't fit their doctrines, then rather than changing their doctrine to reflect reality, their answer is to change reality to fit their doctrines. While they're tilting at those factual windmills they are continually defaming and misrepresenting those who insist on dealing in reality, chucking insults and anathemas with equal enthusiasm.

BTW, the easily predictable Futurist response to this is a wholly false, scurrilous, and usually knowingly mendacious charge that OPs do not believe that our Lord will return as He said. So too put that lie to rest, these extracts from the creeds which all orthodox preterists confess:

Apostle's Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit; Born of the Virgin Mary; Suffered under Pontius Pilate; Was crucified, dead and buried; He descended into Hell; The third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven; And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

Nicene Creed
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man: Who for us, too, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried: the third day He rose according to the Scriptures, ascended into heaven, and is seated on the right hand of the Father: He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end.

In addition, the church to which I belong confesses at each service:
"Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again."

If anyone claims we OPs do not believe these things, they are in fact either militantly ignorant or simply lying. Neither makes for a good character reference.

Give me no creeds. I’ll take the 66. Many biblical prophecies are beyond immediate fulfillment.

The Strawman itself is a straw man...

You believe He will return... this is good to me. I indeed believe Jesus foretold the sacking of the temple and Jerusalem’s time of desolation.

Even as we type... The people of old tribes of foreign god’s... united under the Creaent moon and star... wage war against Israel.

As Israel and the world look to worldly things to combat what is brewing... much will be capitalized on by the desolatoer. Perhaps even wonderful things will appear to come from the pit...

But when all Love is gone and all hope appears to be lost... He that rises from the East will save and show Israel Who it’s true God and Savior is... and many will gain “Opened” eyes.

All the best to you.
 
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BABerean2

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But when all Love is gone and all hope appears to be lost... He that rises from the East will save and show Israel Who it’s true God and Savior is... and many will gain “Opened” eyes.

Speaking of "Opened" eyes...

The modern State of Israel has become an idol in the minds of many modern Christians, which can do no wrong.
Modern Dispensational Futurism is largely responsible for this loss of reality.


Are you aware of the fact that on June 8, 1967 Israeli Defense Forces attacked the U.S.S. Liberty in International waters killing 34 sailors and wounding many more?
The Liberty was only armed with machine guns.
The Israelis also blew a huge hole in the side of the ship with a torpedo.

However, the Liberty refused to sink.

These facts have been hidden from most Americans.

The story below is mainly told by the brave men who survived.
Sadly, some have been labeled as "anti-semites" for merely telling the story of what happened that day.




1 John 2:22-23
.
 
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Grip Docility

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Speaking of "Opened" eyes...

The modern State of Israel has become an idol in the minds of many modern Christians, which can do no wrong.
Modern Dispensational Futurism is largely responsible for this loss of reality.


Are you aware of the fact that on June 8, 1967 Israeli Defense Forces attacked the U.S.S. Liberty in International waters killing 34 sailors and wounding many more?
The Liberty was only armed with machine guns.
The Israelis also blew a huge hole in the side of the ship with a torpedo.

However, the Liberty refused to sink.

These facts have been hidden from most Americans.

The story below is mainly told by the brave men who survived.
Sadly, some have been labeled as "anti-semites" for merely telling the story of what happened that day.




1 John 2:22-23
.

I’m not saying anything human is perfect and I don’t think all Dispensational interpretation is good... but I will be direct...

I am a Zionist of the biblical kind and I do believe Israel is the tithe of the earth to God.

Division of her lands is never good and Prophecy speaks of a reckoning towards any who support its division.

It is Jewish Land and many atheists hate Israel because it is Scriptural proof that the Bible is more than neet tales of an archaic God.

Islam is Old Covenant style with included stoning and Israel isn’t down with that.

It’s an oasis of reasonable people in the midst of people that convert with the sword. (Islam)

Islam is the 7th Kindom of the beast and its shaping up nicely to be the 8th that is one of the 7.

That is my perspective on the matter.

I do support Israel and her countrymen.

As far as the temple stuff goes.

I do believe you and I see Eye to Eye that Jesus alone is the Literal Temple of God and all else is indeed an idol.
 
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BABerean2

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I am a Zionist of the biblical kind and I do believe Israel is the tithe of the earth to God.

Division of her lands is never good and Prophecy speaks of a reckoning towards any who support its division.

I am also a Zionist of the Biblical kind.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.



In the passage below the seed promised in Genesis 3:15 and Genesis chapter 12, which is confirmed in Matthew 1:1, and Galatians 3:16, said that He is "heir" to the land, instead of those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".


Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

At the end of the passage above the "son", who is the "heir", said that the kingdom would be taken from those who rejected the "chief cornerstone" and it would be given to another nation bringing forth fruit.

That holy nation which accepted the "chief cornerstone" is found in the words of Peter, in 1 Peter 2:4-10.

Biblical Zionism is the one which accepts the "son" as the rightful "heir" to the land.

He paid for it with His Blood at Calvary.

The placard on His cross declared Him to be King of the Jews.

Anything else is a counterfeit.

.
 
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klutedavid

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I’m not saying anything human is perfect and I don’t think all Dispensational interpretation is good... but I will be direct...

I am a Zionist of the biblical kind and I do believe Israel is the tithe of the earth to God.

Division of her lands is never good and Prophecy speaks of a reckoning towards any who support its division.

It is Jewish Land and many atheists hate Israel because it is Scriptural proof that the Bible is more than neet tales of an archaic God.

Islam is Old Covenant style with included stoning and Israel isn’t down with that.

It’s an oasis of reasonable people in the midst of people that convert with the sword. (Islam)

Islam is the 7th Kindom of the beast and its shaping up nicely to be the 8th that is one of the 7.

That is my perspective on the matter.

I do support Israel and her countrymen.

As far as the temple stuff goes.

I do believe you and I see Eye to Eye that Jesus alone is the Literal Temple of God and all else is indeed an idol.
Which do you support, theocratic Israel or democratic, secular Israel?

Israel lost the promised land, Israel failed to meet the terms of the old covenant. That happened two thousand years ago. Do you agree that the promised land was lost?
 
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Which do you support, theocratic Israel or democratic, secular Israel?

Israel lost the promised land, Israel failed to meet the terms of the old covenant. That happened two thousand years ago. Do you agree that the promised land was lost?

To me... It’s God’s Land and biblically speaking... I support Israel now and Israel to come.

It is no idol to me... but in scripture... It is a very important matter that is near to God’s heart.

I believe God allows free will to roll forward... but matters like Israel being Israel again are intervention of His prophetic design.

I support Jews deeply because they have been through so much for millennia and again... Scripture tells me to not be conceited towards them... the natural branches.

How much easier will they be regrafted into God.

All the best to you.
 
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