• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Preterism Debunked

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Grip Docility, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus... “No man knows the day nor the hour”...

    Acts 1... “it is not for me to reveal things the Father has appointed”

    Revelation... The dead are raised in Physical Corpreal Form

    Full and Partial Preterism claim 70 AD is the fulfillment of the day and the hour...

    Problem! The dead haven’t been raised in physical Corpreal form yet...

    Thus... the Day and the Hour remains UNKNOWN while preterists seem to think they know more than God the Son while He walked this earth, before His Death, Burial and Ressurection...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Yup... I believe that Jesus is the True Temple and Israel is the literal Israel.

    Or to be direct... Israel IS REAL.
     
  3. Haipule

    Haipule Well-Known Member

    681
    +423
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Although 1 Cor 3:16 says that we are the temple. The word is better translated sanctuary.

    I think it is funny that Jesus is God and therefore, the Jews worship Jesus whether they know it or not and, whether they like it or not! He is God!

    I do NOT believe in post reform soteriology.

    Since going into the autographed languages of the bible, I no longer draw a hard dispensational lines between Israel and the Church and find the Older and Newer Covenants of God fit perfectly together like a child's toy.

    Many of the so called "Church Fathers" were anti-Semitic which is ridiculous!
     
  4. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    +3,383
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    My own personal belief about prophesies found in the book of Revelation is that they play out in each of our individual lives.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  5. Haipule

    Haipule Well-Known Member

    681
    +423
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Paul teaches that the dead in Christ(anointed) will rise first. And that we, the living, and they, the dead, will be snatched into the clouds SIMULTANTEOUSLY to meet a dignitary in the air: Jesus.

    I hope we have some time to meet and greet the dead before we are snatched!
     
  6. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Respect to you. The Holy Spirits teaching to each man is sacred.
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +3,820
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel found in Matthew 1:1, and confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16.



    .
     
  8. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I had to really think before answering...

    Yes... Jesus is the Temple and He is the ultimate purpose of Israel...

    But...

    Israel has not been (Replaced)... or Romans 8-11 would read differently than it does in full context.

    Jesus isn’t done with “Israel” yet.

    We don’t serve a God that utilizes a group of people, then “Throws” them away...

    If that were the case... we would all be without hope.
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +3,820
    Christian
    Married
    God is not a respecter of persons based on who their mother and father would be.

    No man's relationship to God is now based on their DNA.

    The verses found below prove this fact.


    1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


    Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


    1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.



    What do we find in Romans?

    Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


    In the passage below Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of believing Israelites and believing Gentiles grafted together into the same tree.

    Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
    Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
    Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
    Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
    Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
    Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    (The word "so" is an adverb of manner, instead of an adverb of timing. It refers back to verses 23 and 24.))

    Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    The ultimate form of "Replacement Theology" replaces the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26.
    The "manner" of their salvation is by being grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.
    There is no Plan B outside of the New Covenant Church.

    It replaces the New Covenant fulfilled for all races of people at Calvary, with a future covenant with the modern State of Israel in Romans 11:27.

    It replaces the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.


    The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, destroys the Two Peoples of God doctrine.

    In John 10:16 the Savior reveals there is only one people of God.


    .




     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  10. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Um... no...

    How about quoting Romans 8-11 without your attempt to belittle Paul’s specific verbiage in Reference to Romans 11:11-36

    Nice try...

    And...

    You are specifically ignoring a warning that Paul issued to those of you that do as you do in Supersessional teaching.

    You are ignoring the flow of the word for word account in Romans...
     
  11. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Replacement gymnastics ignore that Israel of Old is still awaiting Israel to be vindicated...

    People rush to neatly shelve theology and forget that we are mere travelers through a sliver of God’s much more vast perspective.
     
  12. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Shuffling passages together that aren’t linked in the manner they may be attempted to be linked is the basis of over 30,000 denominations and growing.

    I ain’t even going to bite.

    ;)
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,202
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Perhaps you could inform us just who are the 'Israel of old' today?
    Remember that the current citizens of the State of Israel are Jewish; that is of the House of Judah, that consists of just the 2 tribes; Judah and Benjamin, plus an assimilated few from the other tribes and Gentiles.
    Together they do not constitute the uncountable multitude prophesied to be all of the Israelites.

    Regarding 'preterism debunked', I fully agree; preterists cannot prove the fulfilment of the prophesies, simply because they await fulfilment in the end times. Could be quite soon!
     
  14. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    PS... God has unfulfilled Land promises to Israel and Zechariah 14 hasn’t happened yet...
     
  15. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Oh my...

    Jews aren’t Jews and Israel isn’t Israel...?

    I’m going to note that I’ve had this round and round before and it ends up going like a conversation with a Berkly Libral on Palestine and Palestinians.

    I think God knows His Israeli Kids pretty well and the land is spelled out pretty specifically in this thing called the Bible.

    It’s not like Israel is being oppressed by a false religion made up of Ishmael’s decendents...

    Unless you watch the news... then it is.

    But... heads in sand work too... sort of.
     
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,122
    Non-Denom
    Israel today from the "Jewish" community itself:

    Abraham lineage

    DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

    Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

    Abraham's DNA is now found in every member of the human race.

    How will God distinguish His Own Israel from among them?

    As He always has -- by faith and obedience, as Paul declares.

    God slew "purebred" Israelites by the thousands in the exodus when they disbelieved, disobeyed, and rebelled. His criteria then were the same as His criteria now.

    Faith and obedience.

    As the beloved hymn verbalizes, "Trust and Obey".

    God never has and never will throw away that Israel. They are the Israel of God, His Church.
     
  17. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Again... Romans 8-11 debunks your premise immediately and completely, when read in context.
     
  18. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

    +1,787
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Hello Haipule.
    Very good point, they did indeed crucify the author of life. A damning statement about mankind's nature, how could we be so blind to commit such a profound act.
    Not really, the Jews denied the Christ and were corrupting churches everywhere. Paul's opponents were his own countrymen, they were the only ones who knew the Old Testament. They were the only race on earth who knew all about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So they carried a lot of weight in church.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,122
    Non-Denom
    Scripture cannot debunk itself.

    What are God's criteria for identifying His Own Israel?
     
  20. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    +670
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    This is why Romans 11 declares many of the Jews of the old guard “Enemies of the Gospel”... and then... Grace abounds ... even towards them...

    God is surely Good!
     
Loading...