Preterism and the Resurrection

[Back To The Future]

Hi,
I am pretty new here, so if these questions have already benn answerd, please direct me to them. I am so excited about my full preterist beliefs that I am forgetting where I have been and where I want to be

I started reading 1 Corinthians 15 1-58 all over again with new understanding.
What really stuck out was verse 23, But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; Afterward THEY that are CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING.

Then in verse 44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.

verse 50: Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Anyway, I don't know what my point is, accept it all makes sence to me. The Lord resurrected those at his coming in 70 AD. THose people, ( I still am not sure on this,) may have had an actual physical body resurrection, but we, those after this coming, will have a spiritual one?

Am I on the right track her. I am trying to learn as much as I can on my own. With the help from the preterists.

Thanks and blessings
Nancy

 

[Mandy]

Why would only those in 70AD be resurrected physically and not every other Christian? All who are in Christ will be physically resurrected. We will receive glorified bodies. For those who will be caught up, We shall not all sleep; they will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye and the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptible.

 

[Auntie]

The preterist doesn't believe in our physical resurrection, which nulifies the doctrine that Christ's resurrection was physical.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Originally posted by Back To The Future
Hi,
I am pretty new here, so if these questions have already benn answerd, please direct me to them. I am so excited about my full preterist beliefs that I am forgetting where I have been and where I want to be

I started reading 1 Corinthians 15 1-58 all over again with new understanding.
What really stuck out was verse 23, But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; Afterward THEY that are CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING.

Then in verse 44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.

verse 50: Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Anyway, I don't know what my point is, accept it all makes sence to me. The Lord resurrected those at his coming in 70 AD. THose people, ( I still am not sure on this,) may have had an actual physical body resurrection, but we, those after this coming, will have a spiritual one?

Am I on the right track her. I am trying to learn as much as I can on my own. With the help from the preterists.

Thanks and blessings
Nancy

Hi Nancy,

I like your username (Back to the future) Anyway, preterists believe the Lord indeed resurrected the dead in 70AD. Preterists do not believe in a physical resurrection (i.e. human/earthly body). Rather, we believe that we are raised a spiritual/heavenly body (1 Cor 15:44). Also keep in mind that apostle John didn't know what his heavenly body is like (1 John 3:2). However, I'm willing to believe that Heaven has it's own level of physics, so in a sense you can say that we will be raised 'physically' (at our "physical-earthly" death) to live in a heavenly realm in a "physical-heavenly" life. I'm not advocating that our earthly body dwells in heaven, but rather our spiritual body has some "heavenly-physical" qualities. But I really don't know much about heaven.

Lastly, think of our resurrection like that of a butterfly. uhm...I forgot what it's called before it's a butterfly.. LOL that worm thing... haha my mind went completely blank. But anyway, at first that 'worm thing' lives a life and forms a cocoon (?) to eventually come out as a butterfly. LOL! I honestly forgot how the process works but all I know is that there's a before and after. Then 'after' is DEFINITELY not the same as the 'before. And as you stated, the Bible teaches us that flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 15:50), and that we're raised a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44).

By the way, doctrine of the resurrection of the dead is about those who died, thus the phrase 'resurrection of the dead'. Some people believe that we are resurrected while we're still alive. If it was, then we'd be should be calling it 'the resurrection of the living' =P Yet, the Bible teaches that humans die (Ecc 12:7, Heb 9:27)

God bless! =)

-Jason

 

[Back To The Future]

Thanks everyone.
I tend to belive also, Jason, what verse 49 in 1 Corinthians 15 says. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. So what ever we end up with in Heaven, will be wonderful.
Nancy

 

[Hoonbaba]

Originally posted by Back To The Future
Thanks everyone.
I tend to belive also, Jason, what verse 49 in 1 Corinthians 15 says. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. So what ever we end up with in Heaven, will be wonderful.
Nancy

Amen =)

-Jason

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
The preterist doesn't believe in our physical resurrection, which nulifies the doctrine that Christ's resurrection was physical.

Your mean spirited post is indeed wrong. Not only do preterists believe in Christ's physical resurrection, but preterism doesn't nulify that doctrine.

Jesus himself did not teach a future phycal resurrection of the dead:

21 Martha then said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.
22 “Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”
23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” (Jn 11:21-26)

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by Pericles


You mean spirited post is indeed wrong. Not only do preterists believe in Christ's physical resurrection, but preterism doesn't nulify that doctrine.

I would be gratefull if you would not attack me personally.

The Bible says our resurrection will be just like Jesus' resurrection. If you say our resurrection is not physical, then how can you say that Jesus' Resurrection was physical?

 

[Mandy]

How do those verses "prove" that there will not be a physical resurrection?
What about 1 Thess. 4:13-18? The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up with them...?
Do you believe that when one dies they go to be with the Lord or do they "sleep"?

 

[kern]

Where are you getting the idea that they don't believe in a physical resurrection? Pericles just said they do believe in the physical ressurection right back in post 7.

Also, look over at the thread Erwin started -- there are about 8 responses from preterists all of which say "yes, we believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus".

-Chris

 

[Mandy]

I wasn't referring to the resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Mandy]

Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Mandy
How do those verses "prove" that there will not be a physical resurrection?
What about 1 Thess. 4:13-18? The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up with them...?
Do you believe that when one dies they go to be with the Lord or do they "sleep"?

You might want to answer your own question first.. WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN means that these people that Paul was writing to are still alive?

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Mandy
Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

This cracks me up...

If Christ was talking about physical resurrection, then why is he THE FIRST ONE TO RISE FROM THE DEAD ? There were tons of people that were physically resurrected before Christ was...

 

[GW]

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
The preterist doesn't believe in our physical resurrection, which nulifies the doctrine that Christ's resurrection was physical.

Preterists indeed affirm the orthodox view of Christ's resurrection. They even strengthen it by affirming the biblical truth that only the Messiah was promised that his earthly flesh would not be left to corruption in death (read the Messianic promise of Acts 2:27-31 as given by Peter -- Jesus, not David, achieved that Messianic status).

The rest of us go to heaven as full-bodied citizens of Heaven to live forever. No son of Adam is now in heaven as some sort of "disembodied spirit." Read 2 Cor 5:1-4.

 

[Mandy]

No, He was the first to be raised in glory!!


Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Mandy
No, He was the first to be raised in glory!!


Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Yes, yes...read the entire context of the passage:

"For those who are according to the flesh, are setting their minds on the things of the flesh; yet those who are according to the Spirit, are setting their minds on the things of the Spirit. For the mind that is set on the flesh, means Death; yet the mind that is set on the Spirit, means Life and peace because the mind that is set on the flesh, means animosity against God, since it doesn't make itself subservient to God's law; nor is it able to do so. Now those who are under the guidance of the flesh aren't able to please God. Yet, you aren't under the guidance of the flesh, but under the guidance of the Spirit, provided that God's spirit is continually making its home in you. Now whoever doesn't continually have the Annointed One's Spirit, doesn't belong to Him. Now if the Annointed One lives in you, then while your bodies are dead because of wrongdoing, your spirits are alive because of being right before God."

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um


I would be gratefull if you would not attack me personally.

Does the term "practice what you preach" ring a "belle"?

How was that a "personal attack" against you?
Believe me when I say that I don't condone anyone attacking you personally Aunti, but it seems to me that you might want to start the healing within yourself first by refraining from attacking others personally by slinging the term 'heretic' around as you so often have.

I believe You'll have better luck in stopping any percieved personal attacks against you if you would simply refrain from your personal attacks against others.

As The saying goes:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

If you continue to "dish it out" as you have been doing with absolute consistancy from post #1 on this topic, it should come as no suprise to you that sombody would eventually decide to "dish it back", in fact, I'm stunned that you didn't expect such a response.

Again, I do not condone any such "dishing" from anyone, and 2 wrongs don't make a right, they just make 2 wrongs. which is 2 more wrongs than we need!



Just my $.02

 

[GW]

Originally posted by Mandy
No, He was the first to be raised in glory!!


Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Mandy, you are misunderstanding Romans 8.

That verse is talking about what the Holy Spirit does in LIVING SAINTS. You didn't finish Paul's thought...

"SO THEN, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

So we see how the quickening work of the Holy Spirit in our mortal selves is the sanctifying work of the Spirit to "PUT TO DEATH THE DEEDS OF THE BODY." This quick comparison will help explain what Paul means:

--COMPARE THIS--

Eph 2:1,5
And you he HAS QUICKENED who were dead in trespasses in sins...even when we were dead in sins, [he] HAS QUICKENED us ... and raised us ...

--TO THIS--

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, HATH HE QUICKENED together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

--AND NOW TO THIS--

Rom 8:10-11, 13
And if Christ be in you, THE BODY IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you...he shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT ...if you live after the flesh you will die; but if you through the spirit mortify the deeds of the body you shall live

Romans 8:10-13 is the same as Eph 2:1,5 and Col 2:13. The contexts are identical and speak of the realities of living in our CURRENT earthly shells. Paul is talking about living people here, in all three cases. These passages are parallel. This is not resurrection from the PHYSICAL dead. This is the resurrection from being dead in sins and tresspasses and the susequent putting to death of the deeds of the flesh (while we remain alive in this life).


If Romans 8:11 spoke of the FUTURE immortal resurrection body (it does not), then the very next two verses (vv. 12-13) would have to mean that we are not debtors to live after the flesh of that future immortal resurrection body (which would be absurd). And so, rather, the quickening work of the Spirit in Rom 8:11 is for the purpose that we should not live according to the deeds of the mortal flesh body in THIS life.

 

[Mandy]

1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.


1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

No we will not be raise in physical bodies like the ones we have now. We will be raised in glory!
Why the need for a resurrection at all. Why didn't Paul just simply state that we will shed our bodies?
Because our physical bodies that die are like a seed.



1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

According to scripture we will be raised physically in glory. Amen!