President defends allowing Turkish offensive against Kurds: "They didn't help us in WWII"

[mukk_in]

Again, this is just a report. I thought you folks may want to know.

Trump defends allowing Turkish offensive against Kurds: 'They didn't help us in the Second World War'

Disclaimer: The OP title (same as the news article) and link point to an external news agency and readers are requested to exercise discretion. Nothing has been added or deleted, and the poster accepts no responsibility for its accuracy or otherwise.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Again, watch the entire Q-and-A

Reporter said "Kurds are fighting for us"

President clarified they are "fighting for their land" -- they didn't involve themselves in a fight between two foreign nations, half-way around the world, in WWII

• Kurds didn't get involved between US & Germany in WWII
• US not getting involved between Kurds & Turkey today

Logically, precise parallel

 

[A_Thinker]

Again, watch the entire Q-and-A

Reporter said "Kurds are fighting for us"

President clarified they are "fighting for their land" -- they didn't involve themselves in a fight between two foreign nations, half-way around the world, in WWII

• Kurds didn't get involved between US & Germany in WWII
• US not getting involved between Kurds & Turkey today

Logically, precise parallel

Except ... that we (the US) relied upon the Kurds' partnership to achieve our goals with ISIS.

It's clear ... Trump is not a team player. I pity those who think that he will stand by them ...

 

[Yarddog]

Again, this is just a report. I thought you folks may want to know.

Trump defends allowing Turkish offensive against Kurds: 'They didn't help us in the Second World War'

Disclaimer: The OP title (same as the news article) and link point to an external news agency and readers are requested to exercise discretion. Nothing has been added or deleted, and the poster accepts no responsibility for its accuracy or otherwise.

He proved how much of an idiot that he is. Thankfully, we are seeing Republicans condemning his view.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Again, watch the entire Q-and-A

Reporter said "Kurds are fighting for us"

President clarified they are "fighting for their land" -- they didn't involve themselves in a fight between two foreign nations, half-way around the world, in WWII

• Kurds didn't get involved between US & Germany in WWII
• US not getting involved between Kurds & Turkey today

Logically, precise parallel

Well, quite a bit oversimplified since we've been using them as a proxy force. The US is already involved with the Kurds. Kurd fighting positions and force disposition are what they are due to US support. Sure, all of this cooperation was due to a shared goal of fighting ISIS, but this shared goal led to certain fighting positions and force distributions for the Kurds. In fact, it's easily arguable that a chain of events from the Iraq invasion, based on some mistakes, to now has resulted in the conflict between the Turks and Kurds. It's too late to claim we shouldn't be involved.

So the "parallel" isn't really applicable, and so most people see through it. A better way to back out might be to give the Kurds a fighting chance. Allow them time to reposition, evacuate, and prepare for a world without US support. Don't just suddenly expose them to losing a fight so decisively (or worse, since we can't be sure Turkey's intentions and actions don't involve something far worse).

 

[brinny]

As far as i'm concerned the Kurds are "good guys". Praying for the Kurds and for wisdom and discernment for our President and for God to guide his every thought, word, and deed. Praying for protection for the Kurds. Father may it be so, in Jesus name, amen.

 

[Yarddog]

Again, this is just a report. I thought you folks may want to know.

Trump defends allowing Turkish offensive against Kurds: 'They didn't help us in the Second World War'

Disclaimer: The OP title (same as the news article) and link point to an external news agency and readers are requested to exercise discretion. Nothing has been added or deleted, and the poster accepts no responsibility for its accuracy or otherwise.

Kinda ironic. What help did Trump give his fellow Americans in Vietnam?

 

[Go Braves]

Depraved comment from Donald.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Well, quite a bit oversimplified since we've been using them as a proxy force. The US is already involved with the Kurds. Kurd fighting positions and force disposition are what they are due to US support. Sure, all of this cooperation was due to a shared goal of fighting ISIS, but this shared goal led to certain fighting positions and force distributions for the Kurds. In fact, it's easily arguable that a chain of events from the Iraq invasion, based on some mistakes, to now has resulted in the conflict between the Turks and Kurds. It's too late to claim we shouldn't be involved.

So the "parallel" isn't really applicable, and so most people see through it. A better way to back out might be to give the Kurds a fighting chance. Allow them time to reposition, evacuate, and prepare for a world without US support. Don't just suddenly expose them to losing a fight so decisively (or worse, since we can't be sure Turkey's intentions and actions don't involve something far worse).

There is no parallel your way

The Kurds were never in North America, helping US troops resist opposition... before withdrawing to avoid becoming embroiled in wider conflicts

The Kurds are not being wiped off the map, and if they allow the 20-mile border security zone, there need not be any fighting. The Turkish military is evidently trying to militarize its entire border with Syria, to stem the human tide of refugees into their country, and repatriate most of them back into Syria (in the safe zone):

 

[Yekcidmij]

There is no parallel your way

Right. There isn't a parallel. That's what I was saying.

The Kurds were never in North America, helping US troops resist opposition... before withdrawing to avoid becoming embroiled in wider conflicts

And....?

...and if they allow the 20-mile border security zone, there need not be any fighting.

Well sure. If they surrender to an incursion from an outside force, there won't be any fighting. Goes without saying. Anyone can lay down their sovereignty at anytime and never have a need for fighting.

The Turkish military is evidently trying to militarize its entire border with Syria, to stem the human tide of refugees into their country, and repatriate most of them back into Syria (in the safe zone):

I guess you have more faith in Turkey's pronouncements than I do. "I'm sure" they will spend lots of resources (btw, Turkey's economy is a basket case) on refugee camps with good medical care, beds, food, etc.. Whatever camps they may come up with will probably have really good fencing though.

I'm also not sure why "militarizing the border" (and by that you mean the other side of the border) is a justification for military action. I guess anytime a power is "militarizing the border" with air strikes, artillery, and troop deployments then it's ok. I mean, it's not like they're trying to govern an area that isn't their jurisdiction. I guess they just have to pave the way for those refugee camps.

I think the answer is simpler. In addition to a refugee problem, the Turkish government sees Kurdish people as insurgents in SE Turkey and is trying to root them out. So they will "militarize the border" in order to see to their "national security interests," where Kurdish people are a "national security interest" by definition.

There's a better than even chance that you will be on the wrong side of history.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I guess you have more faith in Turkey's pronouncements than I do. "I'm sure" they will spend lots of resources (btw, Turkey's economy is a basket case) on refugee camps with good medical care, beds, food, etc.. Whatever camps they may come up with will probably have really good fencing though.

I'm also not sure why "militarizing the border" (and by that you mean the other side of the border) is a justification for military action. I guess anytime a power is "militarizing the border" with air strikes, artillery, and troop deployments then it's ok. I mean, it's not like they're trying to govern an area that isn't their jurisdiction. I guess they just have to pave the way for those refugee camps.

I think the answer is simpler. In addition to a refugee problem, the Turkish government sees Kurdish people as insurgents in SE Turkey and is trying to root them out. So they will "militarize the border" in order to see to their "national security interests," where Kurdish people are a "national security interest" by definition.

There's a better than even chance that you will be on the wrong side of history.

So, you're for open borders?

If millions of refugees are pouring into a country, they cannot defend themselves from the human tide?

 

[Yekcidmij]

So, you're for open borders?

If millions of refugees are pouring into a country, they cannot defend themselves from the human tide?

I'm not sure what this has to do with immigration. That seems to be reading US domestic issues into Turkish domestic issues.

I'm not sure bombing the border is a real good "immigration solution" anyway (sounds something more like a "final-immigration-solution"). Can you imagine the US conducting air strikes, raining artillery, and sending infantry into Northern Mexico in order "militarize the border" as an immigration solution? Sounds a bit extreme. Maybe that's what you prefer though? Turkey isn't doing this as an immigration solution - they're rooting out what they perceive as Kurdish insurgents/terrorists. That's why they're conducting military strikes on targets and not simply corralling some civilian refugees.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I'm not sure what this has to do with immigration. That seems to be reading US domestic issues into Turkish domestic issues.

I'm not sure bombing the border is a real good "immigration solution" anyway (sounds something more like a "final-immigration-solution"). Can you imagine the US conducting air strikes, raining artillery, and sending infantry into Northern Mexico in order "militarize the border" as an immigration solution? Sounds a bit extreme. Maybe that's what you prefer though? Turkey isn't doing this as an immigration solution - they're rooting out what they perceive as Kurdish insurgents/terrorists. That's why they're conducting military strikes on targets and not simply corralling some civilian refugees.

One article I read said 3.6M Syrian refugees reside in Turkey, who plans to repatriate 2M of them into the safe zone

According to the NYT:

The Kurdish presence, abutting the Turkish border, enraged the Turkish government, which considers the Kurdish-led militia an enemy because of its ties to a Kurdish guerrilla force inside Turkey.​

So, you acknowledge, that the US risks being seen as undermining sovereign Middle Eastern countries, if it is perceived as unilaterally siding with those who are (allegedly) subverting the same?

So, if the US does get involved, it is decried for playing the role of Global Cop

If the US does not get involved, it is decried for not playing the role of Global Cop

Which way is it?

 

[Cimorene]

I would not even be surprised if Donald Trump doesn't know when World War 2 took place and thinks that the ppl who will be afflicted by his actions now were part of that decision.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I would not even be surprised if Donald Trump doesn't know when World War 2 took place and thinks that the ppl who will be afflicted by his actions now were part of that decision.

well, we know he knows where it took place ("Normandy")

 

[Cimorene]

well, we know he knows where it took place ("Normandy")

I'm not sure if this was meant to be funny or not......... but I mean lol.

 

[tulc]

...well on the other hand you know who also didn't help during WWII (and not because, you know there wasn't a Kurdish nation) that would be Turkey, which, you know, did exist.
WWII Lesson for Trump: Turkey Was in Bed With the Nazis

“Turkey began World War II bound to Britain and France by the military alliance of October 1939, moved to non-belligerency in June 1940 after the fall of France, and adopted a policy of ‘active neutrality’ in the spring of 1941 after German occupation of the Balkans and the conclusion of a German-Turkish Treaty of Friendship in June 1941,” notes a 1998 report on Holocaust restitution by the House Committee on Banking and Financial Services.

The report cites a November 1943 assessment by German Munitions Minister Albert Speer “that much of Germany's manufacture of armaments would come to a halt within 10 months if Turkey's chromite exports to Germany were ended.”

In the meantime, the Germans sold ingots of absolute evil in Turkey.

“Two German banks with branches in Turkey, the Deutsche Bank and the Dresdner Bank, took advantage of the high prices on the Turkish free gold market to sell looted gold provided by the Reichsbank in return for foreign currency, particularly Swiss francs,” the report says. “Some of the gold provided by the Reichsbank came from the infamous ‘Melmer account’ in which the SS deposited the gold jewelry, coins, bars, and dental fillings robbed from its victims at the killing centers and concentration camps.”

tulc(is going to need more coffee after this)

 

[Erik Nelson]

...well on the other hand you know who also didn't help during WWII (and not because, you know there wasn't a Kurdish nation) that would be Turkey, which, you know, did exist.
WWII Lesson for Trump: Turkey Was in Bed With the Nazis

tulc(is going to need more coffee after this)

"Turkey halted the export of chromite to Germany in April 1944 and suspended all commercial and diplomatic relations with Germany in August 1944. Turkey finally declared war on Germany in late February 1945 on the eve of the convening of the San Francisco Conference establishing the United Nations"
​

two months before Normandy?

 

[High Fidelity]

Private Bone Spurs didn't help in Vietnam either.

 

[Cimorene]

Private Bone Spurs didn't help in Vietnam either.

True he didn't but he said that surviving that time w/o getting STDs from his promiscuous lifestyle was his own version of Vietnam so I mean let's give him some credit!

/s