Presestination and Salvation

[Kywy]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

 

[TaylorSexton]

I believe this question would be better served if it were moved to this subforum.

 

[Kywy]

Sorry i didnt know where to put it how do u move it

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Kywy]

But the Bible says that evey decision is from God. So if i want to wear a blue shirt, that is from God? And if i dont, that is too?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[paul1149]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

This is one of the unfortunate results of faulty doctrine. God is neither arbitrary nor fatalistic.

All who sincerely come to Jesus are saved. He refuses no one.

You haven't committed the unpardonable. To do so you would, for starters, have to be fully cognizant of what you were doing, and you're not.

God has created us in His image, with free will. He does not determine every decision, or we wouldn't be accountable for our choices.

 

[TaylorSexton]

Sorry i didnt know where to put it how do u move it

I believe a moderator must do it.

To make a long story (somewhat) short, Scripture in many places juxtaposes absolute divine sovereignty alongside man's responsibility for his own actions. In one passage, God says he is going to use Assyria like a weapon against Israel, and then turn around and punish Assyria for doing it (Isa. 10:5-15). In another passage, the men who killed Jesus are described as wicked conspirators, responsible for their own actions, yet they did only "whatever [God's] hand and [God's] purpose predestined to occur" (Acts 4:28).

In short, Scripture sees no problem—either morally, philosophically, or theologically—with the co-existence of absolute divine sovereignty and human responsibility. I say this with as much humility as I possibly can, but that fact should be enough for all of us. Unfortunately, many on both sides of the divide seek to speculate and explain, when the Word of God should cause us to close our mouths.

Regarding your concerns about predestination, we are nowhere instructed in Scripture to wonder if we are elect or to fear that we aren't. Rather, we are called to one thing: to trust in Jesus Christ and his finished propitiatory sacrifice upon the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. I would simply encourage to do just that. Do not be concerned about whether or not you are elect; simply believe on Christ, and you will be saved. That is the promise of the gospel, my friend.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[~Anastasia~]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

Hello, and welcome to CF.

There are a number of problems with what you've been taught - which is good news for anyone who thinks they are in such a position. God knows the end from the beginning, but that does not mean that we are mere puppets. He has given human persons the dignity of free will to choose - otherwise what is even the point of existence? Don't go by feelings - they can be deceptive. If you want to accept God's grace, then you are free to do so, and God will be pleased because that is His will for each of us. And you have not committed the unpardonable sin. Theologians have some discussion on that point, but essentially unless you determine to reject God, and refuse to be forgiven - you can be forgiven.

Again, welcome to CF. I hope you can find the further answers to your questions. Unfortunately there are a wide variety of opinions on every doctrine. But please know that God does NOT arbitrarily decide to reject persons who wish to come to Him. The very fact that you want to, proves you have been drawn, which is only done by God Himself.

God be with you. And again, welcome to CF.

 

[Rescued One]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

You sound like you are elect. Everyone has a will but the world is following Satan. They have no desire to serve God. God rescues some, touches their hearts and sets them free from Satan's power.

Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and fromthe Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

God bless!

 

[Rescued One]

But the Bible says that evey decision is from God. So if i want to wear a blue shirt, that is from God? And if i dont, that is too?

I, myself, doubt that God is concerned with what color your shirt is. God is concerned with our hearts. The Holy Spirit guides us to bring honor to God by loving Him and others.

Ephesians 4
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

All of Ephesians Chapter 4 is wonderful!

 

[Rescued One]

This is one of the unfortunate results of faulty doctrine. God is neither arbitrary nor fatalistic.

All who sincerely come to Jesus are saved. He refuses no one.

You haven't committed the unpardonable. To do so you would, for starters, have to be fully cognizant of what you were doing, and you're not.

God has created us in His image, with free will. He does not determine every decision, or we wouldn't be accountable for our choices.

Men are accountable for their choices. Unbelievers want to be unbelievers. Therein lies the problem.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Is there a power that thwarts God's will to save? Or has he chosen to show mercy on some?

Whether you believe it's man's will or God's will that makes salvation take effect, all who believe will be saved and all who don't won't.

Matthew 20
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Matthew 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Isaiah 53
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Mark 15
28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

 

[GandalfTheWise]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

But the Bible says that evey decision is from God. So if i want to wear a blue shirt, that is from God? And if i dont, that is too?

The fundamental question in all of this is who determines an individual's eternal fate? Has God predestined each human for eternal life or death? Or has God given each individual the free will and ability to choose their destination for themselves? Many Christians whole-heartedly believe that logic dictates that only one or the other can be correct. Those who believe only one or the other must be correct often fall into rather extreme camps that debate and fight over this, sometimes to the point of calling each other heretics. Both sides love to pull out the scriptures that support their view and explain all aspects of our relationship with God only from their side of things.

Scripturally speaking, it appears that the Bible contains many verses that show both that God is absolutely sovereign over everything and that we each do have free will. For example, read Exodus 7. You'll find verses that say both that God hardened Pharaoh's heart and that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Scripture appears to teach that both are equally true.

In some sense, this is one of those mysteries like Jesus being fully human and fully God at the same time, or the doctrine of the Trinity in which God is one God, yet is manifested in 3 Persons. We take the scriptural evidence for Jesus being human and Jesus being God as both being equally valid (and we reject human logic that says He cannot be both at once). Similarly, we take scriptural evidence that God is both One God and 3 Persons. This means we can comfortably talk and think about Jesus being a human being and we can comfortably talk and think about Jesus being God. It's only if we start to deny one or the other that we get into trouble with our thinking. That's the same with the Trinity. We can comfortably talk and think about God as One God. We can comfortably talk and think about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being distinct Persons that interact with each other and us. It's only if we start to deny either God's Oneness or 3 distinct Persons that we run into trouble.

I think that we can comfortably talk and think about God having absolute sovereignty over all things and I think that we can comfortably talk and think about each of us having free will. It's when we start to deny one or the other that we start running into trouble. When we deny free will, we start to run into a fatalism with strange questions about whether wearing a blue shirt or a red shirt was predestined by God to happen. When we deny God's sovereignty, we end up in what is almost a salvation by works mentality whereby our choices are what are justifying us.

As a practical matter, most Christians simply live their lives by making the best decisions they can and trust that a loving merciful God is in control of all things when we don't know what we're doing. This seems true of most Christians that I've known in my life despite what they believe about predestination and free will.

 

[mark kennedy]

Predestination comes down to God's sovereign choice, God predestined that all who would be saved must be the righteousness of God in Christ. The promise of the gospel is that if you hear the gospel and receive it by faith, you receive the Holy Spirit and you become the righteousness of God in Christ. Some Calvinists believed that there was this book, the book of life, God wrote all the names of those who would be saved in it and that was that. Actually, every soul that comes into the world has their name written in the book of life. If you by choice become a child of perdition, your name is blotted out.

The point is predestination is not fate, it's based on the sovereign will and eternal nature of God. Now you will never be omnipotent so there are things about God's nature that cannot be communicated to us as creatures, righteousness is not one of them. You cannot make that choice apart from God's intervention in your life and heart, you must be called to repentance, hear and understand the gospel, and receive the gospel. All of which are gifts of grace, there is no other way for sinful man to approach holy God. The good news is that it is available to whosoever will.

If you fear God there is no way you committed the unpardonable sin. The people who do are children of perdition, the opposite of being born again. They are forever enemies of God, which is why they blasphemy (slander) the Holy Spirit. There is a catch, God must choose you and his decision is final. The challenge is to know what he requires to choose you, according to Peter:

To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. (Acts 10:43,44)
​

No self respecting Calvinist would deny this, hear the gospel, receive the Holy Spirit and you are saved. That is when the Holy Spirit tells you that you are:

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Romans 8:15-17)
​

This promise is to whosoever will, there are no exceptions.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[GenemZ]

Can someone talk to me about predestination? I think i cant be saved because im not elect. I try to believe and love God but I feel nothing and fear I committed the unforgivable sin. Also, the bible teaches God chooses every decision and there is no free will?

If you were not saved you would not worry about those things... They would be unreal and nothing to be upset about.

The problem you are having is not getting truth yet as you truly need it... and possibly, maybe suffering with a slight case of emotional revolt against the authority of those who are competent to teach. But, you might also be only exposed to those unable to teach soundly.

What you are going through is a typical insecurity many baby Christians at some point face... An insecurity that would quickly disappear once you find yourself being stabilized by good teaching from a good pastor.

13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting..." Ephesians 4:13-14

Many must go through a period of doubt and insecurity! Keep in mind. What you fear that might be the case for yourself? It would have no effect on you unless you could knew salvation is real. And, you do know its real. If you were not touched by the Spirit inside you you would care less about salvation. Its why unbelievers go to Hell. Its because they do not fear not being saved!