Presbyterian Minister Cancelled Wedding After Bride Declared Support for Same-Sex Marriage

[Targaryen]

not bothering to deal with the spam posts in multiple quotations.

Nitpick,cherry pick and miss context to whom the posts you wanted to spam over were directed to all you want. That's fine. I'll just wait till you read them, understand my points and move on as they are pretty self-explanitory.

 

[miknik5]

Nitpick,cherry pick and miss context to whom the posts you wanted to spam over were directed to all you want. That's fine. I'll just wait till you read them, understand my points and move on as they are pretty self-explanitory.

If the man is convicted by the HOLY SPIRIT not to do something should he listen to men or to GOD?

 

[ken777]

Many people do not understand why conservative Christians have a religious objection to same sex marriage. It is because the marriage of a man and a woman represents the union of Christ and the Church. If you watch some old movies you will see this is included in the wedding service.

There can be differences of understanding within a church but this is a central tenet of the faith. When a minister asks a couple to confirm their faith in the doctrine of the church, he expects a full and truthful response. This couple did not tell the truth. The minister reluctantly did his duty.

 

[miknik5]

Why would God accept you, if you willingly reject the least of His? You feel that you are God's Child but they are not? You feel better than them because they don't have the same beliefs as you? Do you pray that you are glad you are not like the sinners over there?We aren't talking about gay people and gay marriage here, no matter how you try to make it about that. We are talking about treating people differently because of what they think and believe. denying services because we believe they support a cause we don't. We should be able to replace gay marriage with anything : remarriage, support of liars, support of fornicators, support of judgers. They should all be treated the same. none better or worse than the other.

To the blind, everyone else cant see. To the deceived, everyone else is deceived. But they are not wrong.....Just deceived and blind.....They are doing and saying what they truly believe in their heart, just like you, me, the minister, and the couple.

Only those who refuse to consider the beams in their own eye will be lost.....walking blindly to the pit that they cant see.

Maybe the couple is blind, maybe you are, maybe I am......But I have hope because of the fact that I am willing to consider myself...as opposed to just quoting Eph 2:2 and assuming it applies to everyone who doesn't do, think and believe what I do.....

Yes Raymond. We are talking about gay marriage here

Love does not mean we allow everything because of love
And it certainly does not mean we join others in doing what is against GOD because of love


The priest chose not to officiate because by his doing so, as he said, it implies that he either supports her viewpoints (now that she public ally announced them) or he doesn't have a viewpoint and doesn't care one way or another

He couldn't do the service with a clear conscience and he should honor the truth that GOD has pricked his conscience and if he ignores his conscience he will sin because he will be doing something in doubt and not in faith

 

[miknik5]

Many people do not understand why conservative Christians have a religious objection to same sex marriage. It is because the marriage of a man and a woman represents the union of Christ and the Church. If you watch some old movies you will see this is included in the wedding service.

There can be differences of understanding within a church but this is a central tenet of the faith. When a minister asks a couple to confirm their faith in the doctrine of the church, he expects a full and truthful response. This couple did not tell the truth. The minister reluctantly did his duty.

It's because GOD's original design for a union was a man and a woman

 

[miknik5]

The false accusations of beliefs of hate in the heart or wrong doings, are just a ploys to make those that don't totally agree look and seem bad. It is to create division so that Truth is obscured. Truth has no need for negative implications.

It was suggested that he wasn't loving sir. That love was lacking. And that is not true

There is no carnal emotion tied to this priests choice

He decided based on spiritual truth

He has no emotional ties to this woman, or his service as their officiator

Unless you can show some personal connection between the priest and the woman, what you are suggesting is also a ploy to appeal to the carnal and fleshly lower senses of men

Love does not mean we allow what is not naturally allowed

Your "love" (or jack's as I can't remember who was the one who posted the reply "love") means closing a blind eye to TRUTH and being flexible and allowing

There was no fleshly carnal love (or hate) involved in the preachers decision

 

[Lily of Valleys]

To clarify, Fairfax Media was only aware of the case due to a friend of the couple's family informed them. Fairfax Media has spoken to the couple, who apparently had provided them with the letter the Presbyterian church sent them.

 

[miknik5]

Truth has no need for anything
That is true
TRUTH will be known to be TRUTH regardless


However, THE HOLY SPIRIT does convict us when we are right and when we are wrong

And it appears that the preacher was convicted that he could not follow through marrying the couple with a clear conscience

So he chose not to
And he doesn't sin

If he had no information and married the couple (and found out later) he also would not have sinned

But given that she supplied the information and he was made aware of it, he can't

Not only for his own conscience but for the conscience of the body of believers (the church) whom he serves

 

[miknik5]

To clarify, Fairfax Media was only aware of the case due to a friend of the couple's family informed them. Fairfax Media has spoken to the couple, who apparently had provided them with the letter the Presbyterian church sent them.

Great. So a friend informs the media.

I wonder if the friend asked the couple first or just took it upon himself/herself to inform the media


The friend has shed a worse light on her/his friend than the preacher


But of course, that too will have mixed opinions depending on _____________.


Some will side with the preacher
Others will side with the couple

 

[Paidiske]

He has no emotional ties to this woman, or his service as their officiator

They've been members of the congregation for ten years, and you think there's no emotion in that relationship or decision? Whatever we think of it, I'd say it would have been an extremely stressful thing to do.

 

[miknik5]

They've been members of the congregation for ten years, and you think there's no emotion in that relationship or decision? Whatever we think of it, I'd say it would have been an extremely stressful thing to do.

Okay.
But his decision is based on truth and his service to GOD first and foremost

His conscience was pricked and he can not officiate

Doesn't he have that right to make that decision given information which was not provided is information that, had it been provided, he would not have agreed to officiate to begin with

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I think the decision of the Presbyterian church not to officiate the couple's marriage in their church is not because the minister and the Session of the church thought the bride had sinned, but rather, because her idea of marriage is at odds with the teaching in the scripture, even after having attended the church for 10 years and been to pre-marital counseling provided by the church. Not any other theological concept, but marriage alone.

When a couple seek to get married at a particular church, it is reasonable for the church to expect the couple to adhere to the theological position of the church in regard to marriage, not every single theological position of the church. It is the same as if you seek to get baptized at a particular church, you are expected to agree with the meaning of baptism practiced by that church, not every single theological position of the church. But if you seek to be member of a particular church, then it is a different story altogether.

 

[Paidiske]

When a couple seek to get married at a particular church, it is reasonable for the church to expect the couple to adhere to the theological position of the church in regard to marriage, not every single theological position of the church.

I expect a couple I marry to agree enough to be willing to go through the ceremony with integrity. I'm not sure it would be reasonable for me to expect more than that.

 

[miknik5]

I expect a couple I marry to agree enough to be willing to go through the ceremony with integrity. I'm not sure it would be reasonable for me to expect more than that.

What is enough?

 

[Paidiske]

If they can agree with what is said in the ceremony, and make their vows, without any sense of cognitive dissonance or dishonesty, that's enough. In my opinion.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I expect a couple I marry to agree enough to be willing to go through the ceremony with integrity. I'm not sure it would be reasonable for me to expect more than that.

But people always have a choice where they want to get married. If they do not agree with the meaning of marriage of a particular church, they can always get married somewhere else. It is like if you are not a Christian, why choose a Christian religious service for your wedding? Why getting married with a religious ceremony that you do not even agree with?

I know many churches do not even marry couples who are not members of their church, and it is a requirement for them to go through pre-marital counseling provided by the pastor there to make sure they understand the meaning of biblical marriage from the scriptural position.

 

[miknik5]

If they can agree with what is said in the ceremony, and make their vows, without any sense of cognitive dissonance or dishonesty, that's enough. In my opinion.

Would you mind telling us what is said in the ceremony

I'm assuming they know beforehand and that the priest can gain some right judgement and insight (by meeting with this couple regularly over some period of time) that the couple actually do agree with what is said and tiny be just repeating by rote the right responses

Could you explain what is said to couples planning to marry?

 

[Paidiske]

Why getting married with a religious ceremony that you do not even agree with?

I agree, which is why I said I do think they need to be able to go through the ceremony with integrity.

But they might not agree with absolutely everything I/the church teaches about marriage, and I'm not sure they should have to.

For example - official Anglican teaching is that marriage is not a sacrament. But many Anglicans actually believe it is. I wouldn't refuse to marry a couple one of whom sees marriage as a sacrament, if they met all the other requirements.

 

[Paidiske]

Would you mind telling us what is said in the ceremony

That's different for different churches, and I don't know what the Presbyterian ceremony looks like or says. Maybe one of our Presbyterian members might have some information?

I'm assuming they know beforehand and that the priest can gain some right judgement and insight (by meeting with this couple regularly over some period of time) that the couple actually do agree with what is said and tiny be just repeating by rote the right responses

That would be usual, yes. Maybe not many meetings, depending on the circumstances, but definitely to go through the service and what happens and what is said would be normal.

Could you explain what is said to couples planning to marry?

I could tell you about what I do in marriage preparation, but every minister handles this differently (and every couple is different, too), so it wouldn't necessarily shed any light on what happened between this couple and their pastor.

 

[miknik5]

That's different for different churches, and I don't know what the Presbyterian ceremony looks like or says. Maybe one of our Presbyterian members might have some information?



That would be usual, yes. Maybe not many meetings, depending on the circumstances, but definitely to go through the service and what happens and what is said would be normal.



I could tell you about what I do in marriage preparation, but every minister handles this differently (and every couple is different, too), so it wouldn't necessarily shed any light on what happened between this couple and their pastor.

Yes you're right

But if you were told that the couple you were about to marry supports same sex marriages would you still officiate knowing that this might be viewed that you the minister also support same sex marriages