Premillennialism safe house

[Timtofly]

I didn't say the body sleeps in the ground. Sleep is death because the body looks like it is asleep when it dies. Asleep just means a person is dead, and nobody has gotten a resurrection body yet except Jesus and probably the 24 Elders-which would be a wave grain offering for more to come. I'll try one more time, but I doubt it will help.

Ok, what about Jesus? His body died,He went to heaven before His body rose again, then that very same body was changed and passed through the burial clothes when He rose again. Another body did not come down from heaven. John believed when he saw the sunken in burial clothes (like a cocoon)that was flattened and empty. It wasn't a different body but a changed one. He ate food with the disciples, and they touched His feet, showing He had a real physical, material body. This is how the resurrection works:

Our old bodies get changed into new ones ready for both Heaven and earth that will never die again. Spiritual describes the new nature of the body, wanting things of the spirit, not that the new body is like a ghost or immaterial- although we will be able to operate in the spiritual realm, a realm we cannot see or venture into now. This is where Heaven is and one day it will be on the earth again. That is why Jesus made great pains to show He was in a material body and not just a spirit.

God don't need a body true, but He is keeping tabs on each body there ever was and will reconstruct them where ever that dust is and raise it up (resurrect) it one day. Rev 20:13 proves the bodies are put back together with the souls from Hades (Hell) of unbelievers at the second death, or resurrection.

The flip side is at the first resurrection, our souls and changed bodies will be put back together, so there is a continuity of the same body and same soul. We will be judged in accordance to the things we have done in this body, so body and soul must be ours.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

That's is what Paul is teaching in 1st Thes. 4. The dead in Christ are the reconstructed bodies that God raises from all over the earth, God brings back the souls with Jesus (those that sleep-like those resting under the altar) from Heaven and they are put together. A split second later, we who are alive and remain (after the great trib. is cut short) will be changed and caught up together with them in the clouds, then taken back to the Fathers House in Heaven while the trumpet and bowls are being poured out on the earth dwellers. Angels do the gathering.


13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.


13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

36While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43and He took it and ate it before them.

This is what Paul teaches and the historical Christian faith is, the gospel. If you don't believe in a bodily resurrection you are probably not in the faith, your hope is in vain. Read below what Paul says the gospel is, this is an early creed. If you can't understand this, how can you claimed to be saved?


1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.


3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

Must One Believe in the Resurrection to be a Christian?

The Resurrection of Christ and Salvation - The Gospel Coalition

What is it then? The body is changed, or the body is resurrected and changed?

If the body is resurrected and has to be judged first, then it is not changed until after the judgment?

I only accept that a body is changed at death. The new body is waiting under the alter. Yes there is a body in heaven. All three parts are in heaven with God. The only difference is you deny there is a body currently in heaven.

Technically I am more saved than most. I place the body, soul, and spirit in heaven. The claim of others, is that the body does not even exist until a future event.

 

[Randy777]

So yes I agree with most, I'm just don't believe the trumpets and bowls are concurrent but everything follows in sequence: 7 sealed scroll 1-7, last seal allows the scroll to be opened and then the 7 trumpets in order, and finally the bowls. Judgments get worse and only the 5 &6 bowl is not world wide.

You post trib? Or is there ant pre-wrathers that post here? I know pre-wrath is a minority view. Use to be pre, when I was first save, then went post, and now pre-wrat.

1Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

I am premil post trib.

 

[Running2win]

I am premil post trib.

Thanks! A straight answer! Use to be there too.

 

[ISteveB]

• Premillennialism: is the belief that Jesus Christ will literally and physically be on the earth for his millennial reign at his second coming. The doctrine is called premillennialism because it holds that Jesus' physical return to earth will occur prior to the inauguration of the millennium.

This is where I'd normally have the dancing with joy snoopy sticker from facebook, and messenger.... Admittedly a gif would work too....

 

[BobRyan]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

Rev 20 is primarily talking about events after the millennium. It points out that the "first resurrection" is the one for the church - "blessed and holy". As Paul says "the dead IN Christ - rise first"

Rev 20
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 1
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

1 Peter 2
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

 

[ewq1938]

MOD HAT ON​

It's been decided that the Premill safehouse is for what Premill futurists have in common. Historic Premillennialism is about not only Christ returning before the Millennium but also reigning on Earth from Jerusalem. No posts about a Heavenly Millennial reign will be allowed here but you may post regarding Christ returning before the Millennium and other things that align with Historic Premillennialism.

Debating whether the Millennium is Earthly or Heavenly can be debated in the main forum but not in this safe house.

Some posts will be deleted or moved.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[RickReads]

My view would be considered Premill, Prewrath. I never knew much about the various mills until recently. I never debated it before athough I have some debate experience.

I noticed the Amill proponents act like 2 Peter 3 is a trump card for them, treating Peter as though he is one of the major prophets of the Bible, using him to justify revising hundreds of prophecies including God`s words that declare His determination to fulfill all prophecy.

I researched 2 Peter 3 and was disappointed in the results Google gave me. I did a rebuttal of the Amil view of 2 Peter 3 anyway and I ended up focusing on something that I feel is pretty strong.

In 2 Peter 3:2 Peter lists the holy prophets as his source. All of the prophecies Peter talks about were sourced from the Old Testament. In 2 Peter 3 Peter is teaching not prophesying. The Bible records one vision unique to Peter, nothing more. A vision doesn`t make Peter a prophet, at least not according to the Law. The Law makes a distiction between a prophet, a dream and a vision.

The Amills resorted to insulting me but they didn`t have a rebuttal for me as far as I could tell.
I`ll post my scripture references below. Tell me what you think, thx.

Deuteronomy 13 King James Version
13 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Joel 2 King James Version
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

 

[ewq1938]

How to prove mortals survive the second coming:


The arrival of Christ for the second time accomplishes many things including the vials of wrath and destroying the armies of the beast at Armageddon as well as resulting in the beast and false prophet being cast into the LOF. There is one more thing mentioned during the second coming that many do not notice which is the future rule over the nations which is proof there are unsaved mortals that are set aside to be ruled over by the rod of iron:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense showing it is happening during this second coming and slaying. This proves the Premill position because there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

 

[JulieB67]

I'm very late into this thread but I just wanted to say one of my biggest reasons for believing in premill (although there are many) is because it's just not possible that Christ is ruling the nations with an iron fist at this moment and we are co reigning with him. Reign of course means "to rule"

We can't even bring up Christ's name sometimes in this world without offending someone. And we all know the persecution that still goes on around the world regarding Christians. And at times the world seems to be moving away from Christianity not towards it. Christ says we will be hated for his names sake. How is that an example of us "ruling" the nations with him?
And there's a difference between spreading the Word to the nations and actually ruling them.

Plus if we are co reigning with Christ at this moment than how do we explain verses such as one of the texts of the gospel armour that Paul says we must have on to be able to "stand" in that evil day?

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh ad blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

This is the only time as for as I can see that the Greek word for "rulers" in this verse is used in the NT.
It is Greek word 2888 kosmokrator from 2889 and 2902, a world ruler, an epithet of Satan:-ruler

So again, how is it possible Christ is reigning on the earth at this moment and us co reigning with him, if there are still rulers such as this in this world?

 

[BobRyan]

How to prove mortals survive the second coming:


The arrival of Christ for the second time accomplishes many things including the vials of wrath and destroying the armies of the beast at Armageddon as well as resulting in the beast and false prophet being cast into the LOF. There is one more thing mentioned during the second coming that many do not notice which is the future rule over the nations which is proof there are unsaved mortals that are set aside to be ruled over by the rod of iron:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense showing it is happening during this second coming and slaying. This proves the Premill position because there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

Rev 19 is the second coming.
Rev 19 shows all the armies of Earth destroyed it then ends with "the rest were destroyed with the sword that comes from His mouth" - and 1 Thess 4:13-18 has all the saints raptured then

 

[DavidPT]

Rev 19 is the second coming.
Rev 19 shows all the armies of Earth destroyed it then ends with "the rest were destroyed with the sword that comes from His mouth" - and 1 Thess 4:13-18 has all the saints raptured then

What should we make of Zechariah 14:16-19 then? Those verses indicate there are mortal survivors as of the 2nd coming. But how could there be if there are no survivors remaining, according to how some of you are interpreting Revelation 19? How can the OT be saying one thing, and the NT is saying something entirely different?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


If both accounts pertain to the 2nd coming, how can there be zero survivors remaining, per the latter, and many survivors remaining, per the former? That is a contradiction, therefore we need to interpret the latter in light of the former, apparently. And besides, it is only those gathered together with the beast that are killed in Revelation 19 to begin with. Not everyone on the entire planet would be gathered together with the beast at the time, would they?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Rev 19 is the second coming.
Rev 19 shows all the armies of Earth destroyed it then ends with "the rest were destroyed with the sword that comes from His mouth" - and 1 Thess 4:13-18 has all the saints raptured then

What should we make of Zechariah 14:16-19 then? Those verses indicate there are mortal survivors

Rev 19 does not change when we read something in the OT about their future.

In Deuteronomy 30:15 Moses presents two futures to Israel , one for success and one for failure. Deut 30:15. You are looking at an OT text where two paths for the future (one or the other) is still possible since Israel has not yet made that final choice in Zechariah's day

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So according to Zech 14 there exists some future for Israel (presumably the one where they accept the Messiah in that 490 year timeline pointed out by Daniel in Dan 9) has a degree of ruler ship on Earth where the wicked live with the righteous and are punished on occasion when they do evil.

By contrast in Rev 19 - all the wicked are destroyed at the 2nd coming.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the rest were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

If both accounts pertain to the 2nd coming,

One refers to Messiah-accepted and ruling on a sinful Earth as you have already pointed out in Zech 14.

But today we are past that history - the Messiah came 2000 years ago and was rejected. Crossed that bridge. So now Rev 19 looks to the future and shows what happens at the second coming

And besides, it is only those gathered together with the beast that are killed in Revelation 19 to begin with. Not everyone on the entire planet would be gathered together with the beast at the time, would they?

2 Thess 1
5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints

Rev 13 says all the world follows the beast at that time
. 3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been fatally wounded, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast,

2 Thess 2
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Matt 24
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

[Timtofly]

What should we make of Zechariah 14:16-19 then? Those verses indicate there are mortal survivors as of the 2nd coming. But how could there be if there are no survivors remaining, according to how some of you are interpreting Revelation 19? How can the OT be saying one thing, and the NT is saying something entirely different?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


If both accounts pertain to the 2nd coming, how can there be zero survivors remaining, per the latter, and many survivors remaining, per the former? That is a contradiction, therefore we need to interpret the latter in light of the former, apparently. And besides, it is only those gathered together with the beast that are killed in Revelation 19 to begin with. Not everyone on the entire planet would be gathered together with the beast at the time, would they?

Because there is a resurrection involved. The survivors are those God so chooses to be resurrected. They are the firstfruits of the Second Coming. That is the judgment of Revelation 20:4. Those survivors are resurrected and judged. They are given sin free incorruptible bodies to live and populate earth. They rule over their offspring for 30+ generations, 1000 years. They have offspring with sin free incorruptible bodies. They all are under the iron rod rule of Jesus Christ.

 

[DavidPT]

Because there is a resurrection involved. The survivors are those God so chooses to be resurrected. They are the firstfruits of the Second Coming. That is the judgment of Revelation 20:4. Those survivors are resurrected and judged. They are given sin free incorruptible bodies to live and populate earth. They rule over their offspring for 30+ generations, 1000 years. They have offspring with sin free incorruptible bodies. They all are under the iron rod rule of Jesus Christ.

What Scriptures, if any, lead you to conclude some of these things? In Zechariah 14:16-19, these ppl remained alive during the 2nd coming. None of them are meaning any alleged offspring born unto resurrected survivors God so chooses to be resurrected. Unless you can prove any of that via Scriptures, all I'm seeing is someone making the Bible mean whatever they want, without even bothering to provide Scriptures showing how these conclusions are even arrived at.

 

[Timtofly]

What Scriptures, if any, lead you to conclude some of these things? In Zechariah 14:16-19, these ppl remained alive during the 2nd coming. None of them are meaning any alleged offspring born unto resurrected survivors God so chooses to be resurrected. Unless you can prove any of that via Scriptures, all I'm seeing is someone making the Bible mean whatever they want, without even bothering to provide Scriptures showing how these conclusions are even arrived at.

"to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

What does it mean to you to make an end of sins? What does it mean to bring in everlasting righteousness? Finish what transgression?

The Millennium is not the next reality, where this reality ends. The Millennium is the above without sin. Without Adam's transgression. Everlasting righteousness. This Day of the Lord on earth, 1000 years, will be set apart and Holy after sin has been eradicated, along with Adam's corruptible flesh and blood. This only happens when all flesh dies and is resurrected into incorruptible bodies.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

This book by a Reformed author does a great job with the chapter on the millennium. Systematic Theology, Second Edition

 

[BobRyan]

"to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

What does it mean to you to make an end of sins? What does it mean to bring in everlasting righteousness? Finish what transgression?

490 years "For your people" Israel. All those events pertain to Israel

Each and every Bible timelines is a contiguous unit even if various events occur during that timeline. So slicing one up into disconnected segments having gaps of unknown length of time is a bold daring eisegesis of the text when people attempt it.

 

[Timtofly]

490 years "For your people" Israel. All those events pertain to Israel

Each and every Bible timelines is a contiguous unit even if various events occur during that timeline. So slicing one up into disconnected segments having gaps of unknown length of time is a bold daring eisegesis of the text when people attempt it.

It means God is not done with Israel. Especially if you claim this has nothing to do with the Gentiles, which would be changing the meaning of the text.

 

[BobRyan]

It means God is not done with Israel. .

490 years ended in 34 AD -- 457B.C. to 34 A.D.

1 Thess 2:
14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all people, 16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always reach the limit of their sins. But wrath has come upon them fully.

This timeline that ended in 34 A.D. - has nothing to do with the future millennium or second coming.

 

[Timtofly]

490 years ended in 34 AD -- 457B.C. to 34 A.D.

1 Thess 2:
14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all people, 16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always reach the limit of their sins. But wrath has come upon them fully.

This timeline that ended in 34 A.D. - has nothing to do with the future millennium or second coming.

So Israel was reborn and has ruled the earth since 34AD? No sin, no Satan, no death, no wars, no famines. Jerusalem has been the central authority for 1991 years? Interesting.