Premarital Sex

[YouthPastor]

1) God made Adam and Eve.  God also says that man was to leave his father and mother and be UNITED to his wife and the two would become one!

The uniting is what makes you one.  Paul in the NT even refers to being united to a prostitute, that by being "involved" with a prostitute you become one with her.  The prostitute is not the important part here - it is the "becoming one" that is the issue.  the "act" makes you "one flesh" with the other person.

You are meant to be "one flesh" ONLY with the person you are married to.

2)  We are to be different than the world.

1 Tim 4:12 says Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity

We are to be an example! An example in EVERY area of our life.

3)  Does premarital sex glorify God? 

Again - God says a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his WIFE.  Not he shall be united to anyone he fells the need to "be with" or with anyone you fell you "Love"

 

[hugoguttman]

Originally posted by Stormy
So is it the actual marriage ceremony that makes sex not a sin?

Yes, but not the marriage ceremony before men, but marriage ceremony before the Father. As somebody said... paper does not mean anything to the Lord. But when you tie up your life to another person´s life before the Father... He is sanctifying the marriage and you are free to delight with your wife.

What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

What do you think?


I think it's not my place to judge them, and that there are many things that would be better focuses for any zeal I might have towards trying to eliminate sin from the world.

Yes, we should not judge anyone, BUT...
If I see a guy commiting robery and dont say anything to him... God Will demand me his blood. Judging is to say you are a thief. But I can say to him... You are not doing right things, and that is not judging. So, if the girl is christian, she must know that she is in yonker with an unbeliever, and sure she must know that having premarital sex (marriage ceremony before the Father) is fornication.
Divorce? There is only one reason to get divorced and could get marry again... Adultery. It´s a fashion right now to get divorce for caracter incompatibility...or maybe to live together for a while and when someone of the couple gets tired or bored... Hey!!! I must be going... and get separate lives... That is not good.
That is right, sometimes Holy Scripture means fornication as idolatry, but you can also find in Paul Letters that fornication is a sin against our body...
Pax.
Hugo.

 

[S Walch]

What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

What do you think?


I think it's not my place to judge them, and that there are many things that would be better focuses for any zeal I might have towards trying to eliminate sin from the world.

Le's take this from one of Pauls letters shall we?
1 Corinthians 7:1-9

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Blatanly - marriage is good if passion is too much.

Also, from another of Pauls letters:

Hebrews 13:4

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.




Premarital Sex:

If we take this from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 5:27-30
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Hmm... Lust = Adultery. It is lust that causes us to want to have sex anyway, So if it's your wife your lusting after, then maybe stopping would be a good idea
Although, it doesn;t exactly say in words "do not have premarital sex", but I guess that's what he's trying to get across too.

 

[Susan]

The Bible's condemnations of immoral sexuality, however, have not changed. They apply to us.

Premarital sex is wrong and by definition immoral, and marriage does not mean that *everything our sick little fleshly minds can think of* is necessarily allowable.

It is best to refrain from anything in which you lose self-control. Sex is by definition giving yourself over to drives and passions which will destroy your life if left unchecked.

 

[Andrew]

and marriage does not mean that *everything our sick little fleshly minds can think of* is necessarily allowable

oh no susan,

r u going to start telling us again that sex within marriage is strictly only for procreation? ie no lingerie, no kinky sex, no fun.... :0

 

[MizDoulos]

Before this discussion gets out of hand, let's stick to the topic and refrain from making any comments that might elicit disparaging remarks.

Thank you.


[noflame][/noflame]

 

[JillLars]

I think I will just chime in here with my 2 cents.

First of all, fornication has 2 parts to it...
1. Sexual acts between unmarried people
2. Lustful, self-serving sexual acts between unmarried people

That's the current definition anyways. It could have meant something different during Jesus's time. So, here is my interpretation of what the bible says about sex before marriage.

The bible says that a man will leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they shall become one.

I think that this means a man leaves his parents (obviously) chooses a woman, sleeps with her, they are ONE and she is his wife.

I think that after you sleep with that one person they are the person you are supposed to be with, as the bible says if a man lies with a woman they should be betrothed. If you sleep with someone else you are committing adultery. I think that this is why paul speaks so strongly about "becoming one" with a harlot, I think that means you need to be careful who you sleep with because God will hold you accountable, and every time you sleep with someone after that you are going against his commandments.

I agree that a couple should get married because they shouldn't be afraid to call each other husband and wife. If they love each other then eventually they should get married. I have premarital sex with my boyfriend, I passed up many oppurtunities to have sex with other guys, so it isn't like I just hopped in the sack with the first one who came along. I love my boyfriend and he loves me, and I am confident that God knows that, he also knows of our intentions to get married as soon as we're done with college. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Andrew]

JillLars,

the Bible never says its okay to have sex b4 marriage, no matter how much both of you love each other and intend to get married. And God forbids this simply becos its for your own good, both you and your boyfriend.

 

[Susan]

Sex before marriage is a sin.

And *weird* practices within marriage are also sin or VERY close to it, IMHO.

(edited to remove squawking and wing flapping noises.)

 

[JillLars]

The bible also doesn't say that it isn't ok to have sex before marriage with someone you love and intend to have a public ceramony with. Nowhere in the bible does it say that a marriage certificate is required to be married in God's eyes. The bible speaks out against fornication, but sex between two loving people who are not acting out of lust, or for self satisfaction, cannot be considered fornication. The bible does in fact suggest that once you sleep with a person and "become one" with them, you are married in God's eyes. Regardless of whether or not you have a marriage certificate. This is why God cautions us to be careful who we sleep with cause once you make that choice, you're with that person for life in God's eyes. That's why God says not to fornicate (have lustful sex with someone for the purpose of self satisfaction) and not to have sex with a harlot.

 

[Andrew]

Nowhere in the bible does it say that a marriage certificate is required to be married in God's eyes.

therein lies a contradiction. marriage is something God instituted right from the beginning. You said "in God's eyes". exactly that's the point. marriage is only valid (the Biblical way) when you do in front of God ie thru a church pastor. That's why couples who are serious abt marriage b4 God do it properly in a church. yes agreed its not the paper/cert that counts but nonetheless you also have to fulfill the laws of the state and the Bible does tell us to submit to the governing authorities. also, the pastor wld require you to have the cert to -- the whole point being everything is done properly and with honour.

The bible speaks out against fornication, but sex between two loving people who are not acting out of lust, or for self satisfaction, cannot be considered fornication. The bible does in fact suggest that once you sleep with a person and "become one" with them, you are married in God's eyes.

you are obviously twisting scripture to accomodate your lifestyle of sex b4 marriage.

"fornicate" as described by a secular Longman Dict of Contemporary English states:

"law or bibl to have sexual relations with someone to whom one is not married."

you are also very naive to think that lust is not involved when you have sex with your boyfriend. Ask any man that. If you tell me that your boyfriend has never lusted after you when he has sex with you is totally unbelievable. Ask him yourself or ask any man here.

 

[JillLars]

I am not saying that lust is not involved in the sex at all, there must be some lust for the act of sex to even take place. I am pointing out that when I have sex with my boyfriend it isn't the same as seeing a prostitute simply to satisfy my own needs, it isn't based only on lust.

The scripture says, if you sleep with someone, you are to be married to them. So, yes I agree that a formal marriage should take place, but I believe the reason for this is that once you sleep with someone, you are married to them in God's eyes, and must fulfill the requirements of the state after that. So, if that's twisting the scripture then I'm sorry, but if you sleep with someone you are married to them, sleeping with anyone else after that would be committing adultery. Personally, I don't see the harm in my boyfriend and I having sex before we get married. We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now. If you can tell me who we're hurting, with an argument other than "God says its wrong" then let me know. Cause the "God says its wrong" part doesn't hold up, God doesn't say its wrong to have sex with someone that you love, cherish, and will spend the rest of your life with. He warns to be careful who you have sex with because after you have sex the "love, cherish, and spend the rest of your life with" part is gonna be expected.

 

[Andrew]

JillLars,

but if you sleep with someone you are married to them, sleeping with anyone else after that would be committing adultery.

you are contradictiing yourself again. if you believe that by sleeping with someone you love constitutes marriage already in God's eyes, then why bother to get married in church, sign the papers etc? God brought Eve to Adam. God married them. Adam did not sleep with Eve first before God brought Eve to Adam.

Personally, I don't see the harm in my boyfriend and I having sex before we get married. We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now.

The are countless "loving" couples who break up b4 marriage. My ex-colleague got herself pregnant, assumed the guy wld marry her but it never happened. another friend got pregnant, and the guy left. Until he proposes to you and walks you down the ailse in God eyes, there is no guarantee he will marry you. 2 years is a long time. dont be so naive.

If you insist on continuing to live in sin by having sexual relations with your bf, and worse, saying that God says its ok, I hope you will at least have the sense to use contraception. Men can change when the responsibility of a baby comes into the picture.

I am not condemning you. for as long as you are a believer in Christ and Jesus is your Lord, there is now no condemnation. But what you are doing is wrong and not supported by scripture.

And I have already showed you that fornication is having sex outside marriage. and you know the Bible is against fornication.

I believe your heart already knows its wrong. so this will be my final post.

 

[JillLars]

The bible states very clearly that once you sleep with someone you are to be married to them. What reason would there be for this other than the fact that in God's eyes you have already become one. If you already make the step of becoming one, God expects you to follow through and go by the laws of the country, culture, ect. If a couple fails to do that then I believe they will have to take it up with God. I understand that until you have walked down that aisle you are not "married" but can you honestly say that you're gaurunteed that person won't leave you after you've been formally married. The answer is NO, my parents have been married for 20 years, and they're getting a divorce right now. That is also something they will have to take up with God, I believe if I leave my boyfriend, or he leaves me we'll have to take that up with God just like if we were getting a divorce. As I have stated before, once you become one with a person they are supposed to be your mate for life, sleeping with someone else would be committing adultery. That's why I think that the bible says to be careful who you sleep with, cause once you do, you're stuck with them.

So, lets not be so naive as to think that loving couples after marriage don't break up.

Next, once again, fornication is not only sex outside of marriage, it is self-serving, lust based (not in a loving relationship) sex outside of marriage.

 

[Vladimir]

7th March 2003 at 10:01 AM JillLars said this in Post #32 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=696797#post696797)

We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now.

I wouldn't agree with you at that. Apostle Jacob clearly states, that we can not divine what will happen with us tommorow. And 2 years is much longer...

 

[Vladimir]

7th March 2003 at 10:01 AM JillLars said this in Post #32 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=696797#post696797)

We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now.

I wouldn't agree with you at that. Apostle Jacob clearly states, that we can not divine what will happen with us tommorow. And 2 years is much longer...

 

[Andrew]

Who is Apostle Jacob?