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Premarital Sex

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by vegan, Feb 2, 2003.

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  1. vegan

    vegan Soaking in the Florida Sunshine

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    I am sure this has been discussed before.

    Where in the bible does it say premarital sex is wrong?

    Thanks.
     
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  2. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    +302
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    4202 porneia porneia por-ni’-ah

    from 4203; TDNT-6:579,918; n f

    AV-fornication 26; 26

    1) illicit sexual intercourse
    1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
    1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
    1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; #Mr 10:11,12
    2) metaph. the worship of idols
    2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

    Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

    Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

    1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.

    1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

    1 Corinthians 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

    1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

    1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    1 Corinthians 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

    Corinthians 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

    Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness

    Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

    Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

    1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

    Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

    Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

    Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

    Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

    Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

    Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

    Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

    Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
     
  3. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

    +155
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    excellent post raphe

    also that "love is the fulfillment of the law" Romans 13:10 ... how much love do you have for your spouse if you would try out other women/men first? Not very much in my opinion...
     
  4. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

    +3
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    Reminder:&nbsp&nbspThere are members as young as 10 that frequent this board. Please remember to use acceptable content, including words and descriptions, when commenting on sexual matters. Any inapproriate, sexually-oriented posts will be removed.

    Thank you for your cooperation.


    [nobad][/nobad]
     
  5. vegan

    vegan Soaking in the Florida Sunshine

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    Thank you for the verses. I am still studying them, but so far they have been helpful.

    For something that is so important to Christianity, I am surprised Jesus never said anything about it (at least not in the verses you sent me).

    Also, many of the commands not to fornicate seem to be tied to idol worship.&nbsp;

    Interesting.

    &nbsp;
     
  6. linda4jesus

    linda4jesus Are you Rapture Ready?

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    MizDoulos,

    Thanks for the reminder, I sometimes forget that we have a young audience at times on these boards. We all need to set a good example for them.
     
  7. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    +302
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    The verse in Colossians reminds us that anything before God is idolatry - including sexual sin. Idolatry is more than just worshipping a wooden idol, but is putting anything before God. Which is more important becomes the question. People can overcome by the blood of the lamb, though, and must try to control the lust of the flesh. Marriage is the provision God makes and blesses for sexual contact.

    1 Cor. 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
    16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
    17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
    18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
    19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
    20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
    1Cor.7:1 ¶ Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
    2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Galatians 6:7&nbsp; Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
    Galatians 6:8&nbsp; For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

    1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.&nbsp;
     
  8. Live4Jesus

    Live4Jesus Well-Known Member

    +1
    It's in the 10 commandments, 'thou shalt not commit adultery'

    the exception to the rule being that if a man know a woman ahead of marriage he should marry her.
     
  9. vegan

    vegan Soaking in the Florida Sunshine

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    Adultery and fornication are two different things.&nbsp; The 10 commandments say nothing about fornication.&nbsp; And, as far as I can tell, Jesus didnt either.&nbsp; Later writers did, but it seems that it is often tied to idol worship or placing something ahead of spiritual purity.

    I am not looking for a "loop hole" to justify fornication.&nbsp; I am just beginning to wonder if it is clearly against Christ's teachings.
     
  10. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    "Fornication" is a word coined to be a translation of the Greek "pornea". What, exactly, this means changes over time; if you read Greek literature and writings from Biblical times, or later, or earlier, you see that word's meaning *change* over time.

    So, it's very hard to be sure what Paul actually wrote, or what Revelations was talking about; our modern use of the word may or may not match what they had in mind.

    Basically, we're guessing. I don't think we really know. You can draw lines fairly far out, or fairly close in; as the definition of fornication gets broader, we get less certain that that's what the word really meant. If you declare that, say, ritualized rape as part of worship of pagan deities is "fornication", I doubt anyone would argue with you. If you argue that having sex with a pregnant woman, since it cannot result in pregnancy, is obviously sex-for-pleasure and thus fornication, most people won't agree with you.

    Where's God's line? I don't know. I have never felt convicted against sex as an expression of love, nor inclined to condemn it in others, but I may well be missing the point. I've been married a long time, so it doesn't come up much for me directly, although I occasionally wonder about some of my friends.
     
  11. Stormy

    Stormy Senior Contributor

    +825
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    So is it the actual marriage ceremony that makes sex not a sin?

    What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

    This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

    What do you think?
     
  12. Live4Jesus

    Live4Jesus Well-Known Member

    +1
    Not true, they are the same thing.

    Try these for example:

    John 4: 15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.


    1 Corinthians 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

    Acts 21:25 - As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

     
  13. Live4Jesus

    Live4Jesus Well-Known Member

    +1
    i think they should marry, kind of falls under 'avoid the appearance of evil'.

    It's good for the father to fully acknowledge booth wife and child, in a public setting, under the law in case of anything, say he dies, they would have a hard time getting any insurance, anything, legal benefits etc.

    i know someone that happened to too, they had 2 boys and he unexpectedly died and the govt came and took all the property because it was his and they weren't married. sad but true it does happen.
     
  14. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    I don't think so.

    I think it's not my place to judge them, and that there are many things that would be better focuses for any zeal I might have towards trying to eliminate sin from the world. :)
     
  15. Live4Jesus

    Live4Jesus Well-Known Member

    +1
    1 Corinthians 6:13 - Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
     
  16. Live4Jesus

    Live4Jesus Well-Known Member

    +1
    Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

    I can find lots of examples, its mentioned plenty.

    But truly i do understand, when i was in it I could never find it either.

    hope that helps.

    be Blessed, stay holy.
     
  17. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    What part of that do you think means "premarital sex"? We're trying to discover what the word "fornication" should be understood as meaning - not necessarily how it's been changed by men in the centuries since the Bible was written.

    I cannot find anything that says that, if two people have fallen in love, and have sex, that this is necessarily sinful. I don't see any grounds for drawing such a conclusion, except the purely circular one of saying that, if we consider it sinful, it is sinful sex, and therefore fornication.
     
  18. Live4Jesus

    Live4Jesus Well-Known Member

    +1
    Great, so if it's not sinful, which it may not be under some circumstances agreed, then they shouldn't run from marriage as though that is sinful either.

    I can only give the biblical interpretation here seebs... past that I would be out of line.

    heres the websters for fornication:

    One entry found for fornication.
    Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion
    Pronunciation: "for-n&-'kA-sh&n
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    : consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare ADULTERY
     
  19. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

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    I have always thought that fornication was all sexual sin outside of marriage and adultry was sexual sin while married - unfaithfulness to the spouse.
    There are warnings in Timothy's and Peter's epistles about how there would be false teachers in the last days that taught that sexual sin would be okay and not harm ones spirit, but scripture is actuall clear as to what is right and wrong in the matter, if one is open to entering by the narrow way, and not the broad. Each person must judge for theirselves and be willing to accept the consequences of their actions and seed sown, whether to the flesh or the spirit.
    I'm older now and can look back and see how important a holy life is, and that each mistake I made was one that left a mark or scar that could be forgiven, but the scar remains, regretfully, taking some of the former beauty away. There is a price for each sin, and the Lord warns us of sin so we are not hurt by them or even destroyed.
    There are certain laws that are just plain fact when it comes to how we love and are loved, in His truth. Lives are ruined every day by sexual infidelities, and the older years reveal what seed has been sown and the fruit bore from that life.
    I would advise any younger to not follow the world, but go the narrow way and see if God will not honor and bless those that obey Him. The other way leads to regret and anguish in older years.

    Romans 6:12&nbsp; Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
    13&nbsp; Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
     
  20. stephen1964

    stephen1964 Regular Member

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    I have always considered Adam and Eve as the model of married life.&nbsp; Of course they didn't have to worry about cheating on each other!&nbsp;
    But seriously... Jesus used this as an example in Matthew 19:4-6&nbsp; "He answered, ‘Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning “made them male and female”, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.’
    I don't know if this specifically addresses pre-marital sex, but it seems to me that becoming one flesh is reserved for man and wife.&nbsp; To be perfectly honest, I did not follow this moral code in my own life; but I didn't know Jesus then.&nbsp; Thank the Lord for His forgiveness and saving grace!&nbsp; :clap:
     
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